Hi, I have a question about changing immigration category.

[ozoc7942]

Hi, my father is a principal applicant and we landed on 2006 December as EN2 (Enterpreneur class).

I recently renewed my PR card but I know that it still has condtion to be eliminated.

My question is,

1. how can I apply for sepearte immigration? Can I become Independent Class Immigrant afterall? Is it possible to become seperate applicant from my father and change my category?

2. If I can change it, do I have to cancel my application and then "re-apply" it? or can I just "change it" keeping my status as PR?


I will be graduating from university so that I can work in an industry for more than 1 year. Thanks.


3. BTW, this is not related to this question but I heard that Ontario no longer receives Enterprenuer class immigrant as of July 2011. Is it true? How does that affect previous immigrants like me?? Is it going to make elimination of condition hard or easy?

Thanks.

 

[scylla]

If you want to become an independent class immigrant, then you will first need to cancel your current PR status. Once you have canceled your current PR status, you will have to re-apply from scratch as a new immigrant using the independent category you have selected. It is not possible to change your status as a PR.

 

[computergeek]

I don't understand why you would want to abandon your existing PR to apply for immigration status under a different category. What conditions are associated with YOUR PR other than the residency obligation.

In addition, are you sure you don't already qualify for citizenship? If you spent 1095 days (3 years) in the past 1460 days (4 years) you would qualify. If you came in December 2006 and were here since then, you would qualify for citizenship, at which point you surrender your permanent residency in exchange for Canadian citizenship.

 

[PMM]

Hi

I don't understand why you would want to abandon your existing PR to apply for immigration status under a different category. What conditions are associated with YOUR PR other than the residency obligation.

In addition, are you sure you don't already qualify for citizenship? If you spent 1095 days (3 years) in the past 1460 days (4 years) you would qualify. If you came in December 2006 and were here since then, you would qualify for citizenship, at which point you surrender your permanent residency in exchange for Canadian citizenship.

Because he was included in his father's Entrepreneur application and dollars to donuts his father to didn't meet the conditions on the visa. So it is quite likely his father has/is/will be reported for not meeting the conditions. He will be included in the order, because he was a dependent. His only chance is that at the appeal hearing is he is able to convince the panel that there are sufficient H.& C. grounds for him to remain if his father is removed.

 

[ozoc7942]

Hi



Because he was included in his father's Entrepreneur application and dollars to donuts his father to didn't meet the conditions on the visa. So it is quite likely his father has/is/will be reported for not meeting the conditions. He will be included in the order, because he was a dependent. His only chance is that at the appeal hearing is he is able to convince the panel that there are sufficient H.& C. grounds for him to remain if his father is removed.

yes that's right. I checked H&C rules carefully but since I am a dependent child and lived here for a long time (about 10 years actually, when I was 14. I came here in 2002) it is less likely that mine will be affected even if my father gets removed. My frd who was in similar situation as mine got condition eliminated after hearing. But anyways, just in case I wanted to check.

 

[computergeek]

Because he was included in his father's Entrepreneur application and dollars to donuts his father to didn't meet the conditions on the visa. So it is quite likely his father has/is/will be reported for not meeting the conditions. He will be included in the order, because he was a dependent. His only chance is that at the appeal hearing is he is able to convince the panel that there are sufficient H.& C. grounds for him to remain if his father is removed.

Indeed, that would be a missing detail from his original post. I'm not sufficiently familiar with the examination requirements of citizenship, so if you state that in order for him to obtain citizenship his father's PR must be current I have no argument one way or the other. If his father is not under a removal order and not attempting to get back into Canada, it would seem he's in a bit of a grey area. For example, I see he would not qualify CEC because it applies to a foreign national who has studied and/or worked in Canada because of course he wasn't a foreign national. On the other hand, H&C grounds seem to make quite a bit of sense in a case of this type.

It does sound like a bit of a mess, but immigration does seem to be a bit of a mess.

 

[ozoc7942]

but do you know whether I can reapply for PR as independent class if my PR get revoked in worst scenario?

1. Is past history of getting revoked going to affect my reapplication process at all? For example, is it going to be "harder" or more strict for me to become independent PR if I have a history of getting revoked??

2. And do you know how I can get interview exemption for independent class?? My situation is like this. I came here when I was 14 and finished my highschool. Got into U of T and will be graduating this year hoping to work in some company in Toronto soon.

Thx

Hi



Because he was included in his father's Entrepreneur application and dollars to donuts his father to didn't meet the conditions on the visa. So it is quite likely his father has/is/will be reported for not meeting the conditions. He will be included in the order, because he was a dependent. His only chance is that at the appeal hearing is he is able to convince the panel that there are sufficient H.& C. grounds for him to remain if his father is removed.

 

[ozoc7942]

Hi



Because he was included in his father's Entrepreneur application and dollars to donuts his father to didn't meet the conditions on the visa. So it is quite likely his father has/is/will be reported for not meeting the conditions. He will be included in the order, because he was a dependent. His only chance is that at the appeal hearing is he is able to convince the panel that there are sufficient H.& C. grounds for him to remain if his father is removed.

Yes but I haven't get reported at all. Already more than 5 years passed though. My mom reported for business to the government though it is not really sufficient to meet condition. Many people around me already received hearing order after 4 years but we haven't even received any order like that which means we are safe. I am not sure whether my father's PR has already removed or not though since he failed to meet 2 year residency anyway. Perhaps, it is that he is already removed while mine and mom's are still in effect but this is not really the case according to the rule.

1. Do you know what it means if someone who is in condition get PR card renewed?? I already received my PR card though... One of my frd could not receive PR card at all though... Does this mean that I can stay here as long as I keep residency obligation no matter what??

2. BTW do you know whether Quebec has more strict rule on keeping condition rule than Ontario?? My frd who is in Quebec did get appeal hearing order after 4 years from application and his PR card couldn't be renewed, still on hold even after 1 year since then! My father landed on Ontario by the way.

3. Is there any case that immigration officer just let family members have PR even if pricipal applicant is removed and family members did not have appeal hearing at all?

 

[scylla]

but do you know whether I can reapply for PR as independent class if my PR get revoked in worst scenario?

1. Is past history of getting revoked going to affect my reapplication process at all? For example, is it going to be "harder" or more strict for me to become independent PR if I have a history of getting revoked??

2. And do you know how I can get interview exemption for independent class?? My situation is like this. I came here when I was 14 and finished my highschool. Got into U of T and will be graduating this year hoping to work in some company in Toronto soon.

Thx

1. Won't make any difference (won't be harder, won't be easier).

2. Whether an interview is required is determined by the visa office processing the file. There is no way for you to get an exemption.

 

[scylla]

Yes but I haven't get reported at all. Already more than 5 years passed though. My mom reported for business to the government though it is not really sufficient to meet condition. Many people around me already received hearing order after 4 years but we haven't even received any order like that which means we are safe. I am not sure whether my father's PR has already removed or not though since he failed to meet 2 year residency anyway. Perhaps, it is that he is already removed while mine and mom's are still in effect but this is not really the case according to the rule.

1. Do you know what it means if someone who is in condition get PR card renewed?? I already received my PR card though... One of my frd could not receive PR card at all though... Does this mean that I can stay here as long as I keep residency obligation no matter what??

2. BTW do you know whether Quebec has more strict rule on keeping condition rule than Ontario?? My frd who is in Quebec did get appeal hearing order after 4 years from application and his PR card couldn't be renewed, still on hold even after 1 year since then! My father landed on Ontario by the way.

3. Is there any case that immigration officer just let family members have PR even if pricipal applicant is removed and family members did not have appeal hearing at all?

1. No - you can't stay here no matter what. If conditions aren't met, sooner or later you will no longer be allowed to renew your PR card and will be told to leave.
2. Don't know.
3. Probably only by filing an H&C application.

 

[ozoc7942]

Indeed, that would be a missing detail from his original post. I'm not sufficiently familiar with the examination requirements of citizenship, so if you state that in order for him to obtain citizenship his father's PR must be current I have no argument one way or the other. If his father is not under a removal order and not attempting to get back into Canada, it would seem he's in a bit of a grey area. For example, I see he would not qualify CEC because it applies to a foreign national who has studied and/or worked in Canada because of course he wasn't a foreign national. On the other hand, H&C grounds seem to make quite a bit of sense in a case of this type.

It does sound like a bit of a mess, but immigration does seem to be a bit of a mess.

hmm but actually I am not techincally Canadian national though but am PR.. But you are saying that CEC is only for international students I suppose.. but I wasn't talking about CEC, but skilled worker class.

 

[ozoc7942]

1. No - you can't stay here no matter what. If conditions aren't met, sooner or later you will no longer be allowed to renew your PR card and will be told to leave.
2. Don't know.
3. Probably only by filing an H&C application.

1. Yes I know, but according to the rule, everyone should eliminate condition within 3 YEARS and otherwise might be told to leave. According to the rule, within 3 years final decision should be made. My case is very odd that I did not get any removal order or what not even after 5 YEARS and GOT MY PR CARD RENEWED. And I don't think immigration officers are not aware of this issue prior to renewing my PR card though. So I think this means something because it means officer knew that I could not meet condition within 3 years but still gave me new PR card. As I already said, many people could not even renew PR card for not meeting condition.

That's why I am asking this.

 

[computergeek]

CEC doesn't have any specific skill requirements (just having studied/worked in Canada), while FSW does have such requirements, which is why I thought of it first. If you are applying under the "job offer category" for FSW, then yes that makes sense too - you wouldn't be subject to the quotas. Additionally, H&C would probably work in your case, although that's a long, slow process. In addition, I don't think you can apply for ANY of these as long as you are currently a permanent resident.

Have you considered consulting with a lawyer having experience with a case similar to yours? There are a lot of poor quality consultants and lawyers out there, but there are also good ones and I'd think you'd benefit from someone who knows the process well and can guide your path forward.

I went back and looked at the citizenship process - it looks like filing for citizenship might also trigger an examination of your PR. Either they would grant you citizenship (in which case all of this is moot) or they would revoke your permanent residency (in which case you can file for permanent residency in one of the eligible categories.)

To become a Canadian citizen, you must have permanent resident status in Canada, and that status must not be in doubt. This means you must not be the subject of an immigration investigation, an immigration inquiry or a removal order (an order from Canadian officials to leave Canada).

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/become-eligibility.asp#status

This seems particularly true given that you've just renewed your PR card (I'd think if there were any doubts they would have investigated at that point). While I agree this is a grey area, it would make your life much easier if you didn't have to go through the PR process independently.

Ultimately, you'd be best served by obtaining counsel from a good and experienced attorney - even if it's nothing more than an hour long consult to lay out the case and say "so, what's the best way to proceed in this case?"

 

[ozoc7942]

Excellent comment! You are truly helpful. Thanks for your recommendation. BTW, do you work for immigration office? You know something very well.
Well, so you can apply H&C only after you get revoked your PR right?? So applying for H&C means appealing to get your PR back?

CEC doesn't have any specific skill requirements (just having studied/worked in Canada), while FSW does have such requirements, which is why I thought of it first. If you are applying under the "job offer category" for FSW, then yes that makes sense too - you wouldn't be subject to the quotas. Additionally, H&C would probably work in your case, although that's a long, slow process. In addition, I don't think you can apply for ANY of these as long as you are currently a permanent resident.

Have you considered consulting with a lawyer having experience with a case similar to yours? There are a lot of poor quality consultants and lawyers out there, but there are also good ones and I'd think you'd benefit from someone who knows the process well and can guide your path forward.

I went back and looked at the citizenship process - it looks like filing for citizenship might also trigger an examination of your PR. Either they would grant you citizenship (in which case all of this is moot) or they would revoke your permanent residency (in which case you can file for permanent residency in one of the eligible categories.)



This seems particularly true given that you've just renewed your PR card (I'd think if there were any doubts they would have investigated at that point). While I agree this is a grey area, it would make your life much easier if you didn't have to go through the PR process independently.

Ultimately, you'd be best served by obtaining counsel from a good and experienced attorney - even if it's nothing more than an hour long consult to lay out the case and say "so, what's the best way to proceed in this case?"

 

[computergeek]

I don't know anyone in the immigration office. But my profession includes study and understanding complex and Byzantine systems. Often, I have to find the holes. Using human language, legislatures and bureaucrats attempt to create systems of rules that they think will be foolproof, when professionals working with formal languages and executed by highly predictable systems are not capable of getting it right. No wonder there are often holes in such systems - both that can be exploited by those using the system as well as allowing innocents to fall into them (it sounds like you're more along the latter category.)

Regardless of what you do, the best strategy is to educate yourself on the rules and then consult with people familiar with the process. While you can know how the process SHOULD work, someone who has been dealing with it for 10+ years will have practical insights you won't have (nor, will most people on this forum.)

Good luck!