We know the good side of moving to Canada as a PR. We all are frustrated with the H1B life. The purpose of this thread is to understand both sides of coins and learn from others' experiences.
H1B life vs. Moving to Canada - Experience sharing
- Thread starter lampbreaker
- Start date
Very interesting thread. Very relevant for me. I am in the same boat but already on the other side of the boat ride 
I was in US on H1B, no GC started, this was my second stint in US. I was earlier in 08-09 and was working as an independent contractor. If only I'd filed my GC back then, of which I had an option of, I would be so close to me GC. Mistake #1. Anyways I was lot younger then and not really serious about US.
Stint 2, 2017-2018. Married, mid 30's with a kid and spouse who isn't from the professional stream, instead from teaching background. She was great in her line of work back in India. Senior role etc etc. But since my growth in India was stunted I decided now is a time to take a chance so went with it.
Spoiler alert - Long store bore alert !!!
I started hunting for employers who could use my cap exempt petition from 08-09. Found 2, who got new petitions approved out of them. I decided to go ahead with one. started applying for interviews from India, got a project, quit my job and came to US solo.
Family followed few months later. It was a contract job so I knew I was walking on thin ice. Family stayed with me APR to DEC and return to India to tend to other matters. The outcome of their trip was wife got first experience of quality of US education/ day care and basic US life. It was first time in US for her. It didn't grow on her much. Her standards of quality are very high. lol
Even before I got my H1B petition approved I had an offer from a Canadian employer but they told me it won't be before 1 year, that I could join them coz I was an LMIA case etc. This is a tier 1 consulting firm in US/ CA. They were fine with me going to US.
After 12 months in US, I made a quick India trip and headed to Canada. Started working with the firm. First paycheck, got the shock of my life time!! I realized I am now on more than a 50% pay cut. Nonetheless I decided no harm in trying this new country for experience sakes.
Also I am on the lower points side so I needed the LMIA Job offer and also the 1 year experience to file the CA PR. I finally have finished one year in Canada and will be filing for the PR soon and then another 6 months before I have it in my hands.
Bore post alert <end>.
Unlike you guys who are still in the US and have the CA PR and are contemplating whether you should make a move, I have already done that so here are my 2 cents. A lot of clear, honest comparisons are already provided above.
This is strictly my analogy. Canada is a docile place. No aggressiveness, no rat race. People don't run after money here. They cherish the quality of life. They cherish honesty, care, and are compassionate of others. People would hold doors open for you. They would give you a seat when you need to. Small acts of courtesy. I personally witnessed many such experiences. Once I lost my monthly metro card (150$ approx). mid month. The booth operator understood my concern and gave me free transfers which will cover me for the rest of the month.
One time a bus driver paid for a passengers ticket from his wallet. They let you in many times if you don't have a fare. I personally never saw this in the US.
I have seen a fare share of US as well. I personally think US has too much money riding in their heads. Hence the aggressiveness. After moving to Toronto once I was itching to go back to US so took a trip to Niagara from the US side. I could see the culture shock moment i stepped on the US side. I believe others who have seen both side of the coin can relate and express it better.
Having said that - you need to be clear on why did you move to the west? Was it for money? was it for safety of your family? Was it for better living conditions? Clean air, clean water? safety on roads? Was it for your kids better education and upbringing? Once you have all these questions answered for yourself you will know what choice to make.
Bottomline - In Canada you can't be rich/ wealthy but you can sure be happy and peace of mind. Heck, if you're an entrepreneur you can make it big even in CA. Look at the generations from punjab which moved here years ago (not stereotyping). May be you wanted to be a chef - open your food truck. May be you wanted to be in Finance and are stuck in IT - change your line of work. Choices are endless once you have the freedom of PR.
Safety - Like said above - No guns! Lot more safer place for kids. That itself is a big decision making factor.
Weather - Yeah it's a BI*CH but let's say Trump gave you the US GC with a condition you can only stay and work in North Dakota/ South Dakota or those midwest states where it is even colder than Toronto? Would you then crib about the weather, not really. So I never considered weather as a factor but the city is built for the weather. I have been made to freak out about the winter, I survived it and honestly other than limited mobility I don't have anything else to complain about. Its nothing different than life in NJ/ NY/ CT.
Money - If you're really good at your skills, establish your own firm, become its employee and start doing contracting. 80-120$ per hour depending on skill set is easier.
Medical - This is another factor which you can consider. Are you the kinds who wants preferential treatment if you or someone has a slight fever or cough? Then NO. CA is not for you. They follow a triage system here. I know a friend who went with a fractured arm and was put in a sling and the doctor didn't operate on him for 2 days. They knew he won't die. They knew his condition. They knew the implications of the delay they are causing. They know you won't die in next 2 days, someone else may require more attention than you. Again - this is the worst case scenario.
For expecting mothers and kids this is not the case. They are given preferential treatment. So nutshell, if you have a condition where you think you need to be checked upon frequently then think again. If your health is on the better side then no worries. Come over. Oh yes, also it is 100% free. Yes 100%. I only pay for parking at the hospital, that's all. No money exchanged. No one even asks for your credit card. You may need a supplementary insurance plan to cover for your medicines etc. That's not too expensive.
Phew...what else did I miss? I guess I covered it.
My predicament. I still have 3 years on my H1B. I still am thinking of returning to the US for 3 years. That's precisely only for making some money and then returning to CA. Like you I am looking to see if that's a wise move. Others have done better planning. File CA PR while you're on your H1B. Get the PR, do the landing, head back. Max out on the H1B and then move to CA. Coz anyways you'd need to be outside US for 1 year (if no GC). With the H4 EAD in Limbo your spouse may be better off in Canada to follow her profession. Having said that, CA has strict regulations on various professions. Unlike US where your credentials and degrees may be valid, in CA they may be not so check on that. In IT they are valid.
In US most IT jobs are about cracking the interview and bit of references. Here in CA since the IT jobs are not as many as in US, references and contacts and professional networking becomes a bigger factor in getting a job. But if you know you're good at what you do, then you just need the first job. Thereafter your goodwill will take you places.
Enough ranting for now. I will ask my questions/ options soon - about moving to US for few years - is it a wise move or not?
Cheers!
I was in US on H1B, no GC started, this was my second stint in US. I was earlier in 08-09 and was working as an independent contractor. If only I'd filed my GC back then, of which I had an option of, I would be so close to me GC. Mistake #1. Anyways I was lot younger then and not really serious about US.
Stint 2, 2017-2018. Married, mid 30's with a kid and spouse who isn't from the professional stream, instead from teaching background. She was great in her line of work back in India. Senior role etc etc. But since my growth in India was stunted I decided now is a time to take a chance so went with it.
Spoiler alert - Long store bore alert !!!
I started hunting for employers who could use my cap exempt petition from 08-09. Found 2, who got new petitions approved out of them. I decided to go ahead with one. started applying for interviews from India, got a project, quit my job and came to US solo.
Family followed few months later. It was a contract job so I knew I was walking on thin ice. Family stayed with me APR to DEC and return to India to tend to other matters. The outcome of their trip was wife got first experience of quality of US education/ day care and basic US life. It was first time in US for her. It didn't grow on her much. Her standards of quality are very high. lol
Even before I got my H1B petition approved I had an offer from a Canadian employer but they told me it won't be before 1 year, that I could join them coz I was an LMIA case etc. This is a tier 1 consulting firm in US/ CA. They were fine with me going to US.
After 12 months in US, I made a quick India trip and headed to Canada. Started working with the firm. First paycheck, got the shock of my life time!! I realized I am now on more than a 50% pay cut. Nonetheless I decided no harm in trying this new country for experience sakes.
Also I am on the lower points side so I needed the LMIA Job offer and also the 1 year experience to file the CA PR. I finally have finished one year in Canada and will be filing for the PR soon and then another 6 months before I have it in my hands.
Bore post alert <end>.
Unlike you guys who are still in the US and have the CA PR and are contemplating whether you should make a move, I have already done that so here are my 2 cents. A lot of clear, honest comparisons are already provided above.
This is strictly my analogy. Canada is a docile place. No aggressiveness, no rat race. People don't run after money here. They cherish the quality of life. They cherish honesty, care, and are compassionate of others. People would hold doors open for you. They would give you a seat when you need to. Small acts of courtesy. I personally witnessed many such experiences. Once I lost my monthly metro card (150$ approx). mid month. The booth operator understood my concern and gave me free transfers which will cover me for the rest of the month.
One time a bus driver paid for a passengers ticket from his wallet. They let you in many times if you don't have a fare. I personally never saw this in the US.
I have seen a fare share of US as well. I personally think US has too much money riding in their heads. Hence the aggressiveness. After moving to Toronto once I was itching to go back to US so took a trip to Niagara from the US side. I could see the culture shock moment i stepped on the US side. I believe others who have seen both side of the coin can relate and express it better.
Having said that - you need to be clear on why did you move to the west? Was it for money? was it for safety of your family? Was it for better living conditions? Clean air, clean water? safety on roads? Was it for your kids better education and upbringing? Once you have all these questions answered for yourself you will know what choice to make.
Bottomline - In Canada you can't be rich/ wealthy but you can sure be happy and peace of mind. Heck, if you're an entrepreneur you can make it big even in CA. Look at the generations from punjab which moved here years ago (not stereotyping). May be you wanted to be a chef - open your food truck. May be you wanted to be in Finance and are stuck in IT - change your line of work. Choices are endless once you have the freedom of PR.
Safety - Like said above - No guns! Lot more safer place for kids. That itself is a big decision making factor.
Weather - Yeah it's a BI*CH but let's say Trump gave you the US GC with a condition you can only stay and work in North Dakota/ South Dakota or those midwest states where it is even colder than Toronto? Would you then crib about the weather, not really. So I never considered weather as a factor but the city is built for the weather. I have been made to freak out about the winter, I survived it and honestly other than limited mobility I don't have anything else to complain about. Its nothing different than life in NJ/ NY/ CT.
Money - If you're really good at your skills, establish your own firm, become its employee and start doing contracting. 80-120$ per hour depending on skill set is easier.
Medical - This is another factor which you can consider. Are you the kinds who wants preferential treatment if you or someone has a slight fever or cough? Then NO. CA is not for you. They follow a triage system here. I know a friend who went with a fractured arm and was put in a sling and the doctor didn't operate on him for 2 days. They knew he won't die. They knew his condition. They knew the implications of the delay they are causing. They know you won't die in next 2 days, someone else may require more attention than you. Again - this is the worst case scenario.
For expecting mothers and kids this is not the case. They are given preferential treatment. So nutshell, if you have a condition where you think you need to be checked upon frequently then think again. If your health is on the better side then no worries. Come over. Oh yes, also it is 100% free. Yes 100%. I only pay for parking at the hospital, that's all. No money exchanged. No one even asks for your credit card. You may need a supplementary insurance plan to cover for your medicines etc. That's not too expensive.
Phew...what else did I miss? I guess I covered it.
My predicament. I still have 3 years on my H1B. I still am thinking of returning to the US for 3 years. That's precisely only for making some money and then returning to CA. Like you I am looking to see if that's a wise move. Others have done better planning. File CA PR while you're on your H1B. Get the PR, do the landing, head back. Max out on the H1B and then move to CA. Coz anyways you'd need to be outside US for 1 year (if no GC). With the H4 EAD in Limbo your spouse may be better off in Canada to follow her profession. Having said that, CA has strict regulations on various professions. Unlike US where your credentials and degrees may be valid, in CA they may be not so check on that. In IT they are valid.
In US most IT jobs are about cracking the interview and bit of references. Here in CA since the IT jobs are not as many as in US, references and contacts and professional networking becomes a bigger factor in getting a job. But if you know you're good at what you do, then you just need the first job. Thereafter your goodwill will take you places.
Enough ranting for now. I will ask my questions/ options soon - about moving to US for few years - is it a wise move or not?
Cheers!
its a good idea, i am thinking of doing the same. I dont even care abt the GC anymore, being on H1B is not bad at all if you lose ur job and have to return to Canada (where u can maintain lifestyle) as opposed to India (where u will face social shame for returning on top of other things).
If you are going to live by what others think/say, good luck.
FWIW, try saying you moved from US like from California to Canada and folks here too would think you are crazy.
I also need to make a call on this soon as its already been about a year since I got my Canadian PR and I don't want to wait too long to move there to allow sufficient time for travel/emergencies etc. and still be able to meet the residency obligation and cut it too close.
Having lived in US for half of my life and still having no hopes of getting a green card, I guess I can share some of my own viewpoints about why Canada or why US which I think about every single day. Below are some thoughts on the issue which I keep internally debating on and rationalizing why I may move to Canada.
Why US –
1. Money - There isn't any country on this planet which gives you more opportunities to make money than its in US. Even as H1B holder, if your skills are in demand, you can make boatload of money in US. If you live in right areas, its an added bonus with additional saving opportunities due to lower COL. I'm in Silicon Valley and there are people living in Austin or Dallas who may earn 20%-30% less than what I earn but they save more hence have more money than me. It’s all about where you are located and what COL is in that area but even with higher COL, your earning ability is more in US, there is no debate about that.
2. Job opportunities - Even as H1B employee, its much easier to land in a FTE or contract position while in US. I have undergone a lay off at FTE position and ended up doing contracting via a body-shopping company for past several years. I've never had a period of more than 1 or 2 weeks when I was on bench or without a project. In my experience its easier to have an employment even with various restrictions in US than in Canada. I’ve tried applying for few positions in GTA area and barring one company, no one even bothered to reply or show any interest in hiring me. If this was a situation with Canadian PR in hand and having worked in top companies throughout Silicon Valley for multiple years not sure what other individuals will experience from non IT background. Granted, my search attempts were half hearted and never serious enough to test the true nature of the job market in Canada so don’t take it as ultimate proof of lack of job opportunities in Canada.
3. Comfort – Having lived in US for about 17 years, US is where I’m currently comfortable at and have built my life around. With this type of time period I've spent in US, its very hard for me to uproot everything and then head to Canada. Its just simple fact that spending significant amount of time in one place will make you love that place and feel you belong there. For me it’s the city I live in and own a home and have a family. Its going to be hard for me to replicate it again in Canada considering I’ll have to start all over again which is why I have not yet moved to Canada. Heart says go to Canada but mind says stay here as you have to uproot everything you have built through last 17 years.
Why Canada -
1. PR - There is no better reason to give up my life in US than live with PR in hand. I do not know that feeling nor I’ve experienced it ever. As said earlier, I’ve lived in US for about 17 years on various non-immigrant statuses ranging from H4 to F1 to H1. Having that feeling of being on PR and being able to travel freely and not have to worry about whether you will be allowed back in the country or worry about whether you will lose your status if you are out of job is priceless. I believe this alone is sufficient reason to chose Canada over US. With daily horror stories we hear about H1 workers and our troubles such as renewal denials, amendments, stamping refusals etc. living on PR is a dream which I can attain if I just move to Canada instead of slaving it out in US in hope of a mirage that is GC.
2. Better Work-life balance – I would love to live a peaceful and harmonious life than struggle with constant rat race that is work culture in Silicon Valley. With 1 year daughter, I would rather spend more time with her than worry about taking offshore calls at dinner time which unfortunately is a daily occurrence. Being on call 24x7 and expected to work nights and weekends in addition to regular work hours is mind numbing and not sustainable in long run. That added stress and its health effect is not something I’m willing to endure for few extra $$$. Having spent time with my daughter which I’ll cherish in my old age is more important for me than getting that extra 50k or 100k in the bank .
3. Saner Gun laws - I'm sick to my stomach that half of US population cannot comprehend that guns kill people. There is no sane reason why anyone in civilized society should own one let alone a fully automatic machine guns like AR-15 designed to kill as many people as possible in shortest amount of time. This is not wild west of 1700s or 1800s or an active war zone where every citizen must defend for themselves. Canadian gun laws and relative safety it provides compared to US is something I appreciate would want to live with. I do not want to live in a country where one day my daughter can go to a school or restaurant and get killed for no reason. I’m not willing to accept this for few extra $$$s. No amount of money is important for me than my family and their safety.
4. Healthcare – Government provided healthcare another reason to choose Canada. I’ve seen healthcare costs skyrocket in US in part few years and government not doing anything to curb that. Even well intentioned laws like ACA are political tools used by both parties to beat other’s head while people’s lives are at risk. Last year when my daughter was born, even with having decent enough employer provided insurance I had to shell out close to 10k for out of my own pockets for medical expenses. For profit healthcare never works as greed will keep driving the prices up. Its simply a common sense that when profits enter the equation, every company tries to maximize the profit and not the expenses (i.e. spend money on quality care).
5. Politics – Politics in US is broken as half of the country is hell bent on destroying what made it strong and great in the first place. Both parties are bickering and getting entrenched in their positions while middle class is suffering due to increased healthcare cost, flat wages and increased tax burden due to changes in tax laws benefiting ultra wealthy. Broken politics is a reason why no laws which have potential to benefit millions of individuals are getting passed, case in point is immigration reform which widely has support of close to 70% of population but unable to be passed. At least in Canada, there is functioning democracy and common sense legislation are getting passed while the debate if about policies and what to do about the issue unlike here where its about whether the issue even exists such as gun safety/healthcare/immigration reform etc.
6. Acceptance of immigrants – I’ve travelled to Canada on multiple occasions and many places in US. I firmly believe that Canadians are much more accepting to immigrants than US. In US, even government calls us Aliens as if we come from some far away planet. In my limited travels to Canada, everyone felt more welcoming to me than I’ve ever felt while traveling in US. In US either people are indifferent or tolerate us than welcoming us and accept us as one of their own. I would much rather prefer to live in a country which make me believe that I belong there as one of their own.
I think I'll be much happier with less pay but better work life balance. I'll be much happier if I earn 50K less but in return not worry about whether USCIS will raise RFE on my H1 renewal or amendment and whether I'll get 221G when I ask for stamping. I much rather worry about which country to visit for vacation next summer than whether I can even travel out to meet extended family because my stamping is expired. I much rather spend time playing with my daughter and teaching her new things on weekends than putting on a headset and stare at WebEx.
I think choice is crystal clear
Having lived in US for half of my life and still having no hopes of getting a green card, I guess I can share some of my own viewpoints about why Canada or why US which I think about every single day. Below are some thoughts on the issue which I keep internally debating on and rationalizing why I may move to Canada.
Why US –
1. Money - There isn't any country on this planet which gives you more opportunities to make money than its in US. Even as H1B holder, if your skills are in demand, you can make boatload of money in US. If you live in right areas, its an added bonus with additional saving opportunities due to lower COL. I'm in Silicon Valley and there are people living in Austin or Dallas who may earn 20%-30% less than what I earn but they save more hence have more money than me. It’s all about where you are located and what COL is in that area but even with higher COL, your earning ability is more in US, there is no debate about that.
2. Job opportunities - Even as H1B employee, its much easier to land in a FTE or contract position while in US. I have undergone a lay off at FTE position and ended up doing contracting via a body-shopping company for past several years. I've never had a period of more than 1 or 2 weeks when I was on bench or without a project. In my experience its easier to have an employment even with various restrictions in US than in Canada. I’ve tried applying for few positions in GTA area and barring one company, no one even bothered to reply or show any interest in hiring me. If this was a situation with Canadian PR in hand and having worked in top companies throughout Silicon Valley for multiple years not sure what other individuals will experience from non IT background. Granted, my search attempts were half hearted and never serious enough to test the true nature of the job market in Canada so don’t take it as ultimate proof of lack of job opportunities in Canada.
3. Comfort – Having lived in US for about 17 years, US is where I’m currently comfortable at and have built my life around. With this type of time period I've spent in US, its very hard for me to uproot everything and then head to Canada. Its just simple fact that spending significant amount of time in one place will make you love that place and feel you belong there. For me it’s the city I live in and own a home and have a family. Its going to be hard for me to replicate it again in Canada considering I’ll have to start all over again which is why I have not yet moved to Canada. Heart says go to Canada but mind says stay here as you have to uproot everything you have built through last 17 years.
Why Canada -
1. PR - There is no better reason to give up my life in US than live with PR in hand. I do not know that feeling nor I’ve experienced it ever. As said earlier, I’ve lived in US for about 17 years on various non-immigrant statuses ranging from H4 to F1 to H1. Having that feeling of being on PR and being able to travel freely and not have to worry about whether you will be allowed back in the country or worry about whether you will lose your status if you are out of job is priceless. I believe this alone is sufficient reason to chose Canada over US. With daily horror stories we hear about H1 workers and our troubles such as renewal denials, amendments, stamping refusals etc. living on PR is a dream which I can attain if I just move to Canada instead of slaving it out in US in hope of a mirage that is GC.
2. Better Work-life balance – I would love to live a peaceful and harmonious life than struggle with constant rat race that is work culture in Silicon Valley. With 1 year daughter, I would rather spend more time with her than worry about taking offshore calls at dinner time which unfortunately is a daily occurrence. Being on call 24x7 and expected to work nights and weekends in addition to regular work hours is mind numbing and not sustainable in long run. That added stress and its health effect is not something I’m willing to endure for few extra $$$. Having spent time with my daughter which I’ll cherish in my old age is more important for me than getting that extra 50k or 100k in the bank .
3. Saner Gun laws - I'm sick to my stomach that half of US population cannot comprehend that guns kill people. There is no sane reason why anyone in civilized society should own one let alone a fully automatic machine guns like AR-15 designed to kill as many people as possible in shortest amount of time. This is not wild west of 1700s or 1800s or an active war zone where every citizen must defend for themselves. Canadian gun laws and relative safety it provides compared to US is something I appreciate would want to live with. I do not want to live in a country where one day my daughter can go to a school or restaurant and get killed for no reason. I’m not willing to accept this for few extra $$$s. No amount of money is important for me than my family and their safety.
4. Healthcare – Government provided healthcare another reason to choose Canada. I’ve seen healthcare costs skyrocket in US in part few years and government not doing anything to curb that. Even well intentioned laws like ACA are political tools used by both parties to beat other’s head while people’s lives are at risk. Last year when my daughter was born, even with having decent enough employer provided insurance I had to shell out close to 10k for out of my own pockets for medical expenses. For profit healthcare never works as greed will keep driving the prices up. Its simply a common sense that when profits enter the equation, every company tries to maximize the profit and not the expenses (i.e. spend money on quality care).
5. Politics – Politics in US is broken as half of the country is hell bent on destroying what made it strong and great in the first place. Both parties are bickering and getting entrenched in their positions while middle class is suffering due to increased healthcare cost, flat wages and increased tax burden due to changes in tax laws benefiting ultra wealthy. Broken politics is a reason why no laws which have potential to benefit millions of individuals are getting passed, case in point is immigration reform which widely has support of close to 70% of population but unable to be passed. At least in Canada, there is functioning democracy and common sense legislation are getting passed while the debate if about policies and what to do about the issue unlike here where its about whether the issue even exists such as gun safety/healthcare/immigration reform etc.
6. Acceptance of immigrants – I’ve travelled to Canada on multiple occasions and many places in US. I firmly believe that Canadians are much more accepting to immigrants than US. In US, even government calls us Aliens as if we come from some far away planet. In my limited travels to Canada, everyone felt more welcoming to me than I’ve ever felt while traveling in US. In US either people are indifferent or tolerate us than welcoming us and accept us as one of their own. I would much rather prefer to live in a country which make me believe that I belong there as one of their own.
I think I'll be much happier with less pay but better work life balance. I'll be much happier if I earn 50K less but in return not worry about whether USCIS will raise RFE on my H1 renewal or amendment and whether I'll get 221G when I ask for stamping. I much rather worry about which country to visit for vacation next summer than whether I can even travel out to meet extended family because my stamping is expired. I much rather spend time playing with my daughter and teaching her new things on weekends than putting on a headset and stare at WebEx.
I think choice is crystal clear
I'm more or less in the same boat as yours.I also need to make a call on this soon as its already been about a year since I got my Canadian PR and I don't want to wait too long to move there to allow sufficient time for travel/emergencies etc. and still be able to meet the residency obligation and cut it too close.
Having lived in US for half of my life and still having no hopes of getting a green card, I guess I can share some of my own viewpoints about why Canada or why US which I think about every single day. Below are some thoughts on the issue which I keep internally debating on and rationalizing why I may move to Canada.
Why US –
1. Money - There isn't any country on this planet which gives you more opportunities to make money than its in US. Even as H1B holder, if your skills are in demand, you can make boatload of money in US. If you live in right areas, its an added bonus with additional saving opportunities due to lower COL. I'm in Silicon Valley and there are people living in Austin or Dallas who may earn 20%-30% less than what I earn but they save more hence have more money than me. It’s all about where you are located and what COL is in that area but even with higher COL, your earning ability is more in US, there is no debate about that.
2. Job opportunities - Even as H1B employee, its much easier to land in a FTE or contract position while in US. I have undergone a lay off at FTE position and ended up doing contracting via a body-shopping company for past several years. I've never had a period of more than 1 or 2 weeks when I was on bench or without a project. In my experience its easier to have an employment even with various restrictions in US than in Canada. I’ve tried applying for few positions in GTA area and barring one company, no one even bothered to reply or show any interest in hiring me. If this was a situation with Canadian PR in hand and having worked in top companies throughout Silicon Valley for multiple years not sure what other individuals will experience from non IT background. Granted, my search attempts were half hearted and never serious enough to test the true nature of the job market in Canada so don’t take it as ultimate proof of lack of job opportunities in Canada.
3. Comfort – Having lived in US for about 17 years, US is where I’m currently comfortable at and have built my life around. With this type of time period I've spent in US, its very hard for me to uproot everything and then head to Canada. Its just simple fact that spending significant amount of time in one place will make you love that place and feel you belong there. For me it’s the city I live in and own a home and have a family. Its going to be hard for me to replicate it again in Canada considering I’ll have to start all over again which is why I have not yet moved to Canada. Heart says go to Canada but mind says stay here as you have to uproot everything you have built through last 17 years.
Why Canada -
1. PR - There is no better reason to give up my life in US than live with PR in hand. I do not know that feeling nor I’ve experienced it ever. As said earlier, I’ve lived in US for about 17 years on various non-immigrant statuses ranging from H4 to F1 to H1. Having that feeling of being on PR and being able to travel freely and not have to worry about whether you will be allowed back in the country or worry about whether you will lose your status if you are out of job is priceless. I believe this alone is sufficient reason to chose Canada over US. With daily horror stories we hear about H1 workers and our troubles such as renewal denials, amendments, stamping refusals etc. living on PR is a dream which I can attain if I just move to Canada instead of slaving it out in US in hope of a mirage that is GC.
2. Better Work-life balance – I would love to live a peaceful and harmonious life than struggle with constant rat race that is work culture in Silicon Valley. With 1 year daughter, I would rather spend more time with her than worry about taking offshore calls at dinner time which unfortunately is a daily occurrence. Being on call 24x7 and expected to work nights and weekends in addition to regular work hours is mind numbing and not sustainable in long run. That added stress and its health effect is not something I’m willing to endure for few extra $$$. Having spent time with my daughter which I’ll cherish in my old age is more important for me than getting that extra 50k or 100k in the bank .
3. Saner Gun laws - I'm sick to my stomach that half of US population cannot comprehend that guns kill people. There is no sane reason why anyone in civilized society should own one let alone a fully automatic machine guns like AR-15 designed to kill as many people as possible in shortest amount of time. This is not wild west of 1700s or 1800s or an active war zone where every citizen must defend for themselves. Canadian gun laws and relative safety it provides compared to US is something I appreciate would want to live with. I do not want to live in a country where one day my daughter can go to a school or restaurant and get killed for no reason. I’m not willing to accept this for few extra $$$s. No amount of money is important for me than my family and their safety.
4. Healthcare – Government provided healthcare another reason to choose Canada. I’ve seen healthcare costs skyrocket in US in part few years and government not doing anything to curb that. Even well intentioned laws like ACA are political tools used by both parties to beat other’s head while people’s lives are at risk. Last year when my daughter was born, even with having decent enough employer provided insurance I had to shell out close to 10k for out of my own pockets for medical expenses. For profit healthcare never works as greed will keep driving the prices up. Its simply a common sense that when profits enter the equation, every company tries to maximize the profit and not the expenses (i.e. spend money on quality care).
5. Politics – Politics in US is broken as half of the country is hell bent on destroying what made it strong and great in the first place. Both parties are bickering and getting entrenched in their positions while middle class is suffering due to increased healthcare cost, flat wages and increased tax burden due to changes in tax laws benefiting ultra wealthy. Broken politics is a reason why no laws which have potential to benefit millions of individuals are getting passed, case in point is immigration reform which widely has support of close to 70% of population but unable to be passed. At least in Canada, there is functioning democracy and common sense legislation are getting passed while the debate if about policies and what to do about the issue unlike here where its about whether the issue even exists such as gun safety/healthcare/immigration reform etc.
6. Acceptance of immigrants – I’ve travelled to Canada on multiple occasions and many places in US. I firmly believe that Canadians are much more accepting to immigrants than US. In US, even government calls us Aliens as if we come from some far away planet. In my limited travels to Canada, everyone felt more welcoming to me than I’ve ever felt while traveling in US. In US either people are indifferent or tolerate us than welcoming us and accept us as one of their own. I would much rather prefer to live in a country which make me believe that I belong there as one of their own.
I think I'll be much happier with less pay but better work life balance. I'll be much happier if I earn 50K less but in return not worry about whether USCIS will raise RFE on my H1 renewal or amendment and whether I'll get 221G when I ask for stamping. I much rather worry about which country to visit for vacation next summer than whether I can even travel out to meet extended family because my stamping is expired. I much rather spend time playing with my daughter and teaching her new things on weekends than putting on a headset and stare at WebEx.
I think choice is crystal clear
Would you agree that we search for pluses for Canada just for the sake of convincing ourselves to move and in all honesty those things doesn't really matter for Indians to live in US? In my opinion stability due to visa situation aka associated peace of mind is the one reason and probably only reason for most of us to move to Canada.
Show me one person from India who would be interested to move to Canada despite having green card for all the pluses that you listed above?
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Dude, we have been talking about this for awhile. You and I exchanged these kinds of questions even before I moved to Canada.In my opinion stability due to visa situation aka associated peace of mind is the one reason and probably only reason for most of us to move to Canada.
Show me one person from India who would be interested to move to Canada despite having green card for all the pluses that you listed above?
Let me give you a dose of reality: in 28 months I will be eligible to apply for Citizenship. You wouldn't even be able to tell me long it will take you to get GC in 28 months. Let that sink in.
Bottom line, it's not 0% or 100%. There are varying degrees of freedom. No one is going to stop you from going back to the US after getting Canadian passport. Sure, you will still be on work visa, "lost" 4 years of increased savings, but if there is any trouble with visa, put your things in a car, drive up 1000 miles, voila, you are home. Peace!
Hey hi, I do remember our discussions.
I just bring this up when people list guns, healthcare, schools and political system as reasons to move to Canada from US in H1 forum and I personally feel that no matter what people say, the only reason Indians consider Canada is to mitigate backlog life in US and eventually get Canadian passport.
Absolutely, no one is denying that statement. Speaking for myself, yes, if I can get GC, sure I will stick around. But that is not the reality.
Simple analogy. You go to Six flags hoping you get to go on your favorite ride and eat some fries from a café that you visited last time. Primary reason is the ride, secondary reason is fries. When you get there your favorite ride has a looooong line and estimate is that you will have to wait all day and may not get to eat fries because the café will be closed by the time you are done with your ride.
And there is another ride (next to your favorite ride) with no wait time. If you choose this one, you get ride your second favorite ride, eat your fries, and go home.
So the question is: do you stick around for your favorite ride that you came to the park for? Or make the best of the situation and ride the second favorite ride. While deciding that you consider the secondary benefit of fries to make the second offer better. Eating fries is only a secondary benefit, nevertheless a benefit that may tip the scale for SOME people. So they, we, use this secondary factor. This doesn't mean the primary factor is not important.
Simple analogy. You go to Six flags hoping you get to go on your favorite ride and eat some fries from a café that you visited last time. Primary reason is the ride, secondary reason is fries. When you get there your favorite ride has a looooong line and estimate is that you will have to wait all day and may not get to eat fries because the café will be closed by the time you are done with your ride.
And there is another ride (next to your favorite ride) with no wait time. If you choose this one, you get ride your second favorite ride, eat your fries, and go home.
So the question is: do you stick around for your favorite ride that you came to the park for? Or make the best of the situation and ride the second favorite ride. While deciding that you consider the secondary benefit of fries to make the second offer better. Eating fries is only a secondary benefit, nevertheless a benefit that may tip the scale for SOME people. So they, we, use this secondary factor. This doesn't mean the primary factor is not important.
Thanks @langoorbandar, @gtvisa2020, @DEEPCUR and others for sharing your thoughts.
I am running along these lines these days.
I am running along these lines these days.
- The big positive with Canada is the safety and stability of PR and relative ease of getting Citizenship. One additional benefit of PR/Citizenship is ability to sponsor my parents/in-laws to live with me. Even if we magically get a GC in the next 5 years, our parents will be 75+ by the time we become USC and sponsor them. Not being with them when they need me is disheartening.
- As others have mentioned the other points are not super important and dealbreakers as such. But those do tilt the scale at least a little in favor of Canada.
I have identical sentiments on parents' thing and for me that's second biggest positive after immigration stability. Both parents' sponsorship and super visa are huge deal makers for me. I also learnt that if one resides in Quebec, they can sponsor parents' PR just after one year of residence (as compared to 3 years in rest of Canada) which I consider very lucrative too. the flexibility to be able to bring parents long term through various means is one of the biggest reason I chose to apply Canada over Australia as I was having option to get both.
Completely agreed thats why I said PR is the only reason enough to move to Canada, rest are all secondary and not as important however, work life balance is certainly something I'll consider even if I were to stay in US. I'll probably move to a lower COL area as well as move away from rat race called Silicon Valley work culture of Desi IT Vultures.I'm more or less in the same boat as yours.
Would you agree that we search for pluses for Canada just for the sake of convincing ourselves to move and in all honesty those things doesn't really matter for Indians to live in US? In my opinion stability due to visa situation aka associated peace of mind is the one reason and probably only reason for most of us to move to Canada.
Show me one person from India who would be interested to move to Canada despite having green card for all the pluses that you listed above?
True, I reside in on of those low col area and work as FTE, and my experience has been positive in that aspect too. I don't remember when I logged in after 5 pm in last 4 years or so. I believe these things totally depend upon work culture and management in a company, and Canada may not be an answer for that.
And other people bring up US military might and inventions in such discussions to justify living like a 3rd class citizen, one layoff away from deportation to a 3rd world country.