Foreign worker program will implement new rules and higher fees

[jsm0085]

So it shouldn't matter for other caregivers or people who work in cafe because those instances are different IMO.

I think this is one of the huge problems. Why can't a canadian dot he job of a care giver or work in a cafe? Canada's unemployment rate in March 2013 was 7.2%. The fact is, some of these people could be acting as care givers or cafe workers.

 

[torontosm]

I think this is one of the huge problems. Why can't a canadian dot he job of a care giver or work in a cafe? Canada's unemployment rate in March 2013 was 7.2%. The fact is, some of these people could be acting as care givers or cafe workers.

Agreed, particularly since the TFW program allows for application for PR after a certain period of time. If we keep importing workers and providing them with PR, what becomes of the Canadians who are already here? Also, why is it that to apply for PR through the usual channels, you need an education, skills, work experience, etc. but to apply for PR through the TFW program, none of the same rules apply? You can work in Tim Hortons for a couple of years and then be eligible. It doesn't make sense.

 

[jsm0085]

Agreed, particularly since the TFW program allows for application for PR after a certain period of time. If we keep importing workers and providing them with PR, what becomes of the Canadians who are already here? Also, why is it that to apply for PR through the usual channels, you need an education, skills, work experience, etc. but to apply for PR through the TFW program, none of the same rules apply? You can work in Tim Hortons for a couple of years and then be eligible. It doesn't make sense.

The CEC route is fantastic and I agree that it should be based on nothing more than your work experience.

The issue is not the CEC PR route but the TFW issue that is currently being addressed, whether we all like it or not! It may not be good for some of us, but it's good for Canada in the long run.

If the government assess someone and subsequently provides a work permit, that person should have a route to PR - without having their previous experience/education assessed again.

I also totally agree with the language requirements. No one is saying that someone who speaks russian can't apply for a job... They are just saying that they will be required to speak fluent french or english (the countries official languages). It will be mandatory that they speak one of these languages and if the employer sees speaking russian as desirable then they can state that.

 

[torontosm]

If the government assess someone and subsequently provides a work permit, that person should have a route to PR - without having their previous experience/education assessed again.

I'm not sure I agree. After all, these are supposed to be TEMPORARY foreign workers, not permanent residents. In the new rules, the Conservatives have promised to have businesses propose how they intend to eventually replace the TFW with a Canadian worker, so the need for PR diminishes further.

 

[gong0704]

The issue at hand, I believe, is that lots of employers are using the system to bring in foreign workers because they can pay them less and potentially don't need to invest in training to find Canadians to do the work.

I agree with you.

Yesterday there was quite a lot of debate on CBC news radio one. The bank trainers originally reporting this issue saying that the employers who brought foreign workers to Canada only concerns about their paying less, but the foreign workers are not qualified in their opinion and they have to be trained in Canada too. So why don't these employers hire Canadian and train them. This will improve to unemployment condition.

Although on the other hand, the immigration office also argue that the natural population growth in Canada is negative if they don't do these immigration program. The reason for foreign worker program to exist is to encourage qualified foreign worker to come and work and eventually be Canadian citizen.

Eventually the rules changes to have a more strict rule about this program and require employer to have certain training program so eventually these position will be replaced by Canadian. Also increasing the fees of this program.

 

[jsm0085]

I'm not sure I agree. After all, these are supposed to be TEMPORARY foreign workers, not permanent residents. In the new rules, the Conservatives have promised to have businesses propose how they intend to eventually replace the TFW with a Canadian worker, so the need for PR diminishes further.

Yes. Temporary to fill skills shortages, however - Canada needs immigration to increase the population! They have no issue bringing in PR's who came to the country to fill skill shortages, as long as they came to fill skills shortages.

At the minute, a lot of TFW are bring brought in for this reason but there really is no reason for them to be here - as Canadian's can do the job. That is what this is all about.

 

[jsm0085]

I agree with you.

Yesterday there was quite a lot of debate on CBC news radio one. The bank trainers originally reporting this issue saying that the employers who brought foreign workers to Canada only concerns about their paying less, but the foreign workers are not qualified in their opinion and they have to be trained in Canada too. So why don't these employers hire Canadian and train them. This will improve to unemployment condition.

Although on the other hand, the immigration office also argue that the natural population growth in Canada is negative if they don't do these immigration program. The reason for foreign worker program to exist is to encourage qualified foreign worker to come and work and eventually be Canadian citizen.

Eventually the rules changes to have a more strict rule about this program and require employer to have certain training program so eventually these position will be replaced by Canadian. Also increasing the fees of this program.

Canadians wage + training = expensive.
TFW + training = cheaper.

Not all companies go down this route, but many are, hence the problem!

 

[torontosm]

Yes. Temporary to fill skills shortages, however - Canada needs immigration to increase the population! They have no issue bringing in PR's who came to the country to fill skill shortages, as long as they came to fill skills shortages.

At the minute, a lot of TFW are bring brought in for this reason but there really is no reason for them to be here - as Canadian's can do the job. That is what this is all about.

As stated by the CIC (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/employers/temp-foreign-worker-program.asp), the TFW program is not aimed at immigration, but is solely intended to meet short term skill deficiencies. Unfortunately, it has become a back-door to immigration for certain people who wouldn't otherwise qualify. Let's use TFW for what it was meant for and use the existing immigration avenues to increase the population.

 

[jsm0085]

As stated by the CIC (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/publications/employers/temp-foreign-worker-program.asp), the TFW program is not aimed at immigration, but is solely intended to meet short term skill deficiencies. Unfortunately, it has become a back-door to immigration for certain people who wouldn't otherwise qualify. Let's use TFW for what it was meant for and use the existing immigration avenues to increase the population.

Yes. But do you appreciate that FSW applications, which are a direct route to pr, focus mainly on those who can fill skills shortages? You think it's really any different?

 

[torontosm]

Yes. But do you appreciate that FSW applications, which are a direct route to pr, focus mainly on those who can fill skills shortages? You think it's really any different?

I actually do. The FSW has defined criteria and eligibility requirements, which are adjusted continuously. Virtually anyone can qualify for the TFW, including, as we have seen, many who would not qualify under the FSW. If you feel they are the same, then why keep them separate? Combine them and have all TFW's qualify using the point system.

 

[jsm0085]

I actually do. The FSW has defined criteria and eligibility requirements, which are adjusted continuously. Virtually anyone can qualify for the TFW, including, as we have seen, many who would not qualify under the FSW. If you feel they are the same, then why keep them separate? Combine them and have all TFW's qualify using the point system.

As well as all the other requirements for FSW apps, one of the main focuses is filling skills shortages, hence the list of occupations.

TFW apps have been used inappropriately by employers, as I've stated above. While it's more open than FSW, the aim of the game is to get people into jobs that Canadians cannot do. The new changes to TFW apps, will effectively make the process stricter and hopefully ensure that only the people who are needed in Canada are permitted to work in Canada on a temporary basis.

When this is done, TFW and FSW apps will have one main purpose - filling shortages in the Canadian labour market.

Shortages don't necessarily disappear quickly, so it's in Canada's interest to keep some of these people - and that's why the CEC route exists.

 

[thisisauser]

When outsourcing small departments to Canada-based foreign workers turns into offshoring to foreign countries of entire operations, I'd love to see the looks on the face of these people hating so much on foreign workers.

Businesses will find their way.

 

[gg08]

lol

When outsourcing small departments to Canada-based foreign workers turns into offshoring to foreign countries of entire operations, I'd love to see the looks on the face of these people hating so much on foreign workers.

Businesses will find their way.

 

[gong0704]

I agree. As CEC is primarily for TFW, isn't it?
TFW+CEC and FSW aim to the same group of people, just different approach.
TFW+CEC have more advantage to the government that an employer pay certain price to the immigrant's future. Plus, TFW is just first step, there are CEC to ensure immigrant's ability.
While FSW are simply looking for shortage, and hopefully applicant will have jobs and have the ability to live in Canada.
Comparing these two, TFW + CEC seems to have more advantage in a way.
Even though the new rule are rolling out, I doubt TFW program will be affected greatly.
CIC obviously realized this, hence CEC policy is actively changed in a proactive way (for example changing from 2 year working experience requirement to 1 year in late 2012). There are complaints, politicians must react to it.
For TFW or CEC, I don't think there's anything to worry about.

As well as all the other requirements for FSW apps, one of the main focuses is filling skills shortages, hence the list of occupations.

TFW apps have been used inappropriately by employers, as I've stated above. While it's more open than FSW, the aim of the game is to get people into jobs that Canadians cannot do. The new changes to TFW apps, will effectively make the process stricter and hopefully ensure that only the people who are needed in Canada are permitted to work in Canada on a temporary basis.

When this is done, TFW and FSW apps will have one main purpose - filling shortages in the Canadian labour market.

Shortages don't necessarily disappear quickly, so it's in Canada's interest to keep some of these people - and that's why the CEC route exists.

 

[jes_ON]

From my perspective, what was wrong in the RBC case is that the foreign workers were brought into Canada for training using the TFW program. These workers were issued visas specifically reserved for those jobs where skilled Canadians were not available; however, in this instance, the TFW were actually replacing actual Canadians who were already in those jobs. This was a clear abuse of the system and will hopefully be stopped under the new rules. Had the workers just stayed in India, then if could have been considered simple outsourcing but obviously this did not happen.


The workers were employed by iGATE (not RBC) and came from India on intra-company transfers - they were LMO-exempt (so no, they were not issued visas reserved for those jobs where a skilled Canadian is not available). Under the proposed changes, intra-company transfers remain LMO-exempt. It is still outsourcing.


I also think another factor that has angered many of the comment posters is the jobs that foreign workers are being recruited for. For example, you can not argue that a foreign worker is required to work at Tim Horton's or some other fast food restaurant because Canadian residents do not have the skills to perform these jobs. That's ridiculous.

No one is saying that; the business owners claim that they cannot find any Canadians willing to do the low wage work. (I am skeptical too). Anyway, unskilled work permits are only available in certain labour markets.