For all those who criticize LMIA / PNP

[munjal]

This post is created with a sole purpose of creating awareness about CRS cutoff score and LMIA / PNP points relating with eligibility of EE applicant

Recently after the 9th draw, there have been many posts from members which mentioned about ITAs given to applicants who have CRS as low as 155..

These members have put forward their views statistically and literally without considering its actual and practical feasibility.

Here they have considered that an applicant who has got ITA in 9th draw with CRS 755 would be having LMIA/PNP and so for this he/she was awarded 600 points, thus without LMIA/PNP this applicant will be having CRS of 155 points..

and such comments are actually been posted on many threads of this forum..

I just wonder why people make such irrelevant stuff without knowledge and out of their own stress and frustration.

Here is my point of view (Disclaimer: This is my opinion only, any differences is surely welcomed)
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What is the process??
If anyone who would have created EE profile, he/she would be aware that first you need to

1) Determine your eligibility by doing this CIC quiz http://www.cic.gc.ca/ctc-vac/ee-start.asp

Do you think if a guy is having just 155 points, he will be able to get eligible for this???

2) next, if you have your ECA done, language results in hand and you are very much sure about your NOC for work experience, then next step will be you create your express entry profile. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/profile.asp and register for the Job Bank http://www.jobbank.gc.ca/home-eng.do?lang=eng

3) You'll be given points based on your age, education, number of years work experience, and language skills. The points system is detailed here --> http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/grid-crs.asp

You'll be in a pool with thousands of other applicants http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/pool.asp

Of course, the more points you have the better. The max is 1200, with 600 of those points coming from your ability to snag a PNP or a job offer with a very hard to get Labour Market Impact Assessment http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/employers/lmo-basics.asp

For CEC applicants, the max is 600 but someone who has no work experience in Canada who is only eligible for FSW can only get up to 520 points.

4) Finally, wait for your invitation to apply (ITA).
(I have taken some of above info from this post: http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/express-entry-step-by-step-instructions-t273928.0.html)
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When anyone who is having just 155 score for CRS
Taking into account, the extreme conditions:
calculation of CRS points for an applicant

Age 45 years CRS 0 points
Education: Secondary Diploma CRS 28 points
IELTS: No IELTS or CLB 5 CRS 0 points or CRS 16 points
Second language : no proficiency CRS 0 points
Canadian work exp (he is on wp since 3 years) CRS 56 points
spouse education: higher secondary CRS 0 points
spouse IELTS: no proficiency CRS 0 points
spouse canadian exp: 2 years CRS 7 points

Skill transferability:
foreign work exp with 2 yrs or more canadian exp: 50 points

so total CRS will be 0+28+16+0+56+0+7+25 = 157

now as other members assume that above applicant have got LMIA / PNP so, he will get 600 points for this,.

thus his/her total CRS will be now 132+600 = 757,

so, this applicant would have got ITA, if he was in EE pool when 9th draw happened on 23-May-2015.
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But all this exists only in theory and in the mind of forum members who have created such posts on the forum.

In the first instance itself, is such applicant will not be eligible because of the fact that he will not be crossing the threshold of 67 points out of 100 for SIX SELECTION FACTORS as declared by CIC for Federal Skilled worker Program Link: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-factors.asp
Let's check this too:

Points out of 100 for submitting PR application:
Age 45 years 2 points
Education: Secondary Diploma 5 points
IELTS: No IELTS Below CLB level 7 Not eligible to apply
Second language : no proficiency 0 points
total work exp 6 yrs (assuming he is working in same NOC in canada and foreign work exp) 15 points
LMIA / Arranged Employment : 10 points
Adaptability:
Your past work in canada: 10 points (only if worked in Skill Type O or Skill Levels A or B of the National Occupational Classification (NOC))
spouse past work in canada: 5 points
Arranged employment: 5 points

and going further, lets consider that this applicant is having relative also in canada,
so points for relative in canada: 5 points

Total Points for submitting PR application = 2+ 5 +0+15+10+10+5+5 = 52 points,

However, to get PR, an applicant must secure 67 points out of 100...


so practically speaking, there does not exists such applicants with score of 155 or like that who have LMIA/PNP and because of this, ITAs have been given to them.

Hence, a request to all members to stop spreading rumors and prevent speculating comments about how CRS score is increased for low scoring applicants and so on..

 

[kateg]

The CEC criteria are a little different.

If someone meets the minimum, they can have only one year of skilled work experience and meet the required language levels.

Let's assume someone was on a spousal work permit, so no points for education. CLB 5 is required for CEC.

With 0 for age, 0 for education, 24 points for language, 35 for 1 year of Canadian work experience, 0 for the spouse (who failed out of school), 0 for spousal language, 0 for spouse work education, 0 for skill transferability, and no foreign work experience, the total comes out to 59.

I may have missed something, but it looks like it's possible to get as low as 659 on EE. The "Come To Canada" wizard makes it look like 1 year is sufficient.

 

[munjal]

hi kateg,
pls can you share official link for CEC criteria on cic website?

The CEC criteria are a little different.

If someone meets the minimum, they can have only one year of skilled work experience and meet the required language levels.

Let's assume someone was on a spousal work permit, so no points for education. CLB 5 is required for CEC.

With 0 for age, 0 for education, 24 points for language, 35 for 1 year of Canadian work experience, 0 for the spouse (who failed out of school), 0 for spousal language, 0 for spouse work education, 0 for skill transferability, and no foreign work experience, the total comes out to 59.

I may have missed something, but it looks like it's possible to get as low as 659 on EE. The "Come To Canada" wizard makes it look like 1 year is sufficient.

 

[kateg]

hi kateg,
pls can you share official link for CEC criteria on cic website?

Sure:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/cec/apply-who.asp

You must:

- have at least 12 months of full-time (or an equal amount in part-time) skilled work experience in Canada in the three years before you apply,
- have gained your experience in Canada with the proper authorization,
- meet the required language levels needed for your job for each language ability (speaking, reading, writing and listening),
- plan to live outside the province of Quebec.

 

[munjal]

but still then it is far from meeting the threshold of 67 points out of 100 for getting PR.

The CEC criteria are a little different.

If someone meets the minimum, they can have only one year of skilled work experience and meet the required language levels.

Let's assume someone was on a spousal work permit, so no points for education. CLB 5 is required for CEC.

With 0 for age, 0 for education, 24 points for language, 35 for 1 year of Canadian work experience, 0 for the spouse (who failed out of school), 0 for spousal language, 0 for spouse work education, 0 for skill transferability, and no foreign work experience, the total comes out to 59.

I may have missed something, but it looks like it's possible to get as low as 659 on EE. The "Come To Canada" wizard makes it look like 1 year is sufficient.

 

[kateg]

but still then it is far from meeting the threshold of 67 points out of 100 for getting PR.

Are you referring to the six selection factors?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-factors.asp

Those are for FSW.

If you score 67 points or higher (out of 100), you may qualify to immigrate to Canada as a federal skilled worker.

If you score lower than the pass mark of 67 points, you will not qualify to immigrate to Canada as a federal skilled worker. It is better not to apply at this time.

 

[munjal]

Are you referring to the six selection factors?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-factors.asp

Those are for FSW.

Determine your eligibility – Canadian Experience Class
Note: The CEC cap of 8,000 applicants for the period of May 1, 2014 to December 31, 2014 has been reached. Completing an Express Entry profile is now the first step for interested candidates who want to be considered for CEC. Paper applications available before January 1, 2015 are no longer being accepted.
As of January 2015, we have a new system for people to apply to this program. It is called Express Entry.

You can use our online tool, Come to Canada, to see if you meet the criteria to get into the Express Entry pool.

so, how CEC applicants will be evaluated after submitting PR application?

 

[kateg]

They could have phrased it better. The blue section is stating that:

As of January 2015, if you want to apply to CEC, you have to use express entry.

Express entry is how you apply for FSW, CEC, or FSTP.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/criteria-crs.asp

When you create your profile, it checks first to see if you meet the criteria of at least one of those programs. If you don't, your profile is ineligible (regardless of score).

If you meet at least one of those programs, you get a score and wait for an invitation. If your score is too low (FSW, CEC, or FSTP), you do not get one.

A LMIA gets you 600 points. This is the case if you have FSW, CEC, or FSTP. This will almost certainly kick your score up enough to get an ITA. It's technically possible not to, though (as is the case as I described above).

For people without Canadian work experience (during times other than school or self-employment), they will likely be trying to qualify for FSW. This program has a 67 point qualification. Many of the criteria are also used by CRS (Express Entry) scoring, making it impossible to get a score of 600 (since the things to qualify for FSW will also benefit CRS for the most part).

For people with Canadian work experience, they can apply for CEC. They need a year of legally working on some sort of work permit. It could potentially be a working holiday, a spouse open work permit, Post-Graduation-Work-Permit, etc. It's possible for people in this category to have a score of 659, though it's not overly likely.

 

[munjal]

They could have phrased it better. The blue section is stating that:

......
For people with Canadian work experience, they can apply for CEC. They need a year of legally working on some sort of work permit. It could potentially be a working holiday, a spouse open work permit, Post-Graduation-Work-Permit, etc. It's possible for people in this category to have a score of 659, though it's not overly likely.

Are you talking about CRS score here??

Let's identify the steps and process for CEC applicants
1) create EE profile .. as per you, CEC applicant can have score of 659..
2) wait for ITA... lets suppose, in 10th draw, this CEC applicant got ITA..
3) now next step will be submitting PR application... Right???

for FSW.. the points threshold is 67 out of 100...
but then what is such criteria for CEC applicant who is submitting PR application after receiving ITA?
how he will be getting evaluated for the purpose of getting PR??
or is it something like... that all CEC applicants who get ITA will be straight away becoming eligible for PR.. there will be no such points threshold as it is with FSW applicants (of 67 points out of 100).

pls clarify this

 

[kateg]

Yes, 659 is CRS score.

The ITA is granted based on meeting the program requirements.

For FSW, that means you have to have 67 points when you apply, and 67 points when they evaluate you.

For CEC, that means you need to have one year of experience when you apply, and one year of experience when they evaluate you.

With CEC, they judge you against your experience at application:

have at least 12 months of full-time (or an equal amount in part-time) skilled work experience in Canada in the three years before you apply

So, when they evaluate those people, they are going to still meet the requirements.

Technically, they have to stay qualified the whole time (like FSW), but since the experience is from the time before application, there isn't really a way to go from eligible to ineligible while waiting.

 

[munjal]

The CEC criteria are a little different.

If someone meets the minimum, they can have only one year of skilled work experience and meet the required language levels.

Let's assume someone was on a spousal work permit, so no points for education. CLB 5 is required for CEC.

With 0 for age, 0 for education, 24 points for language, 35 for 1 year of Canadian work experience, 0 for the spouse (who failed out of school), 0 for spousal language, 0 for spouse work education, 0 for skill transferability, and no foreign work experience, the total comes out to 59.

I may have missed something, but it looks like it's possible to get as low as 659 on EE. The "Come To Canada" wizard makes it look like 1 year is sufficient.

Ok,
but then how did you calculated above points?
Are they same as SIX SELECTION FACTORS for FSW from here:
Link: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-factors.asp

or there is some different link for CEC applicants?

Also I could not understood, how 35 points are given here for canadian experience?
I got it about IELTS points of 24 points (6 points for each section with CLB 5 level), Am I Correct?

 

[kateg]

I calculated the points two ways.

The first was using the official calculator:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/crs-tool.asp

The second was by hand:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/grid-crs.asp

I assumed that someone was a spouse on an open work permit. This has no minimum requirements, and does not lose eligibility due to time spent studying.

For CEC, the six selection factors don't apply.

First, they are compared against eligibility criteria (from earlier post), then scored against CRS for ranking. I added 600 for a LMIA to the 59 point minimum. I assumed CLB 5(the minimum eligible), and the required 1 year of Canadian work experience. That would qualify for Express Entry (through CEC), but have a very, very low score.

 

[munjal]

I calculated the points two ways.

The first was using the official calculator:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/crs-tool.asp

The second was by hand:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/express-entry/grid-crs.asp

I assumed that someone was a spouse on an open work permit. This has no minimum requirements, and does not lose eligibility due to time spent studying.

For CEC, the six selection factors don't apply.

First, they are compared against eligibility criteria (from earlier post), then scored against CRS for ranking. I added 600 for a LMIA to the 59 point minimum. I assumed CLB 5(the minimum eligible), and the required 1 year of Canadian work experience. That would qualify for Express Entry (through CEC), but have a very, very low score.

but then dont think that this applicant is having CLB 4 or 5 level only in IELTS and with such a low levels in IELTS, will he become eligible for creating EE Profile??
Have you actually tried it calculating the score of such profile with CRS tool on CIC or known any such applicant with similar profile??

 

[kateg]

but then dont think that this applicant is having CLB 4 or 5 level only in IELTS and with such a low levels in IELTS, will he become eligible for creating EE Profile??

Yes, he will.

Have you actually tried it calculating the score of such profile with CRS tool on CIC or known any such applicant with similar profile??

No, I have not. I don't create fake profiles, and I don't know anyone who would have that low a score. I promise you, though, EE does check against the criteria. If you have a year of experience in Canada while not a student, it will let you create one.

 

[munjal]

Yes, he will.

No, I have not. I don't create fake profiles, and I don't know anyone who would have that low a score. I promise you, though, EE does check against the criteria. If you have a year of experience in Canada while not a student, it will let you create one.

oops.. I really apologize for sounding bit different here.. I didn't meant to say that you created fake profiles.

So, If I get a work permit in any of province in CANADA for 2 years now, then after 1 year I will become eligible to apply under CEC.

But then what about getting LMIA?? Will I need another LMIA or my current job which was obtained after LMIA will be sufficient.