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Finding job after PR

number411

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nope said:
'Professional' immigration is a funny thing. Huge numbers of Canadians are unable to find the jobs they want -- a country that can't provide for its own is going to struggle to provide for immigrants. Ask yourself "What do I have that I will succeed in Canada where Canadians themselves don't?" In the past, immigrants were poor, and survival was success. Most professionals aren't satisfied with that.

I'm writing this because there is nothing WRONG in the answers above -- but they fall too close to the 'work hard and you will succeed' genre for my liking. Lots of people work very hard, and don't; I've known some of them, and could have been one myself.

Really profound writing from "nope". Thank you so much for this perspective.


Asivad Anac said:
10. Get used to rejections

Always remember that immigration was your personal decision and, technically, the country owes you nothing beyond allowing you to come in and make a life here. They will still help you wherever possible but don't take them for granted. Be grateful for any support you receive from them but be prepared for rejections and disappointments. If you've ever worked in Sales, you'll know the feeling of living with a 1% success rate all the time. Most salespeople in the World have 99 disappointments for every 1 sale that goes through and that's a hard life but that 1 success more than makes up for all the disappointments and gradually one gets better at improving their success rate as well. That's the general idea with immigration as well. Get used to it.


The economy isn't great right now. Unemployment rates are lower in Ontario and BC (compared to the national average) but all other provinces have challenges especially in the bigger cities which attract most immigrants. Explore smaller cities - Canada is much more than just GTA, Vancouver and Montreal. Most professional jobs would involve higher levels of competition so be prepared for early rejections. Also be prepared to not have it easy if you don't have any Canadian work experience. Be prepared to feel frustrated, depressed and morose after the early euphoria of having finally made it to Canada.

Bottom line, be prepared for rejection. A lot of it. Till you find your place to shine. Which you will. Always remember that you made it this far and there is no reason you won't make it further. The only person holding you back? Look in the mirror.


All the best!
Asivad, thank you for this note. Please write more about your Job Hunting strategies, experiences and feelings till you finally land a job.


A ship is safest in the harbour, but its not where its meant to be. Rejections are something that risk-takers have to learn to deal with in their pursuits.

We (professional immigrants) need to look at immigration as a venture that we are undertaking, and deal with it in a planned and impersonal manner. By this I mean, look at Rejection as a risk and plan for it. Can we apply some principles of risk management from the business world and make alternative plans (B, C.. ), have a portfolio of goals and change course if there is a blockade on the road?

Personal feelings are what makes us human, and knowledge and application of learnings is what makes us educated beings. If we apply our learnings in our personal lives, we'll emerge stronger and successful, I believe.

And, on the anglicized name issue, Philip oreopoulos' research brought this issue into limelight. Initials and an easily pronounceable first name should be ok I guess. Each one has to experiment with what works in their resume and improve content, including name! :)

Finally,

 

number411

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nope said:
- I lived for my first year in Victoria, where the job market is awful, and specialized jobs go to people with local qualifications. UVic and UBC are the sources for educated professionals (in my field) in Victoria. Why did I do that? Because I tricked myself into thinking that the thing that I wanted was the thing that was best for me. I should have gone to Alberta or Saskatchewan.

- I thought that once I landed, I could find a job anywhere in Canada, so why not live in Victoria? In the United States, this is normal. In Canada, job markets are local (for most professions), and people are less willing to look at applicants from far away. This is particularly true if you are overqualified -- and the first half-decent job immigrants get tends to be one they are overqualified for.
Can we generally say that small towns would prefer local candidates and big cities in Canada will be okay with "from away" guys? I am getting it this question - how do we choose a city to attempt first settlement or job search?

- I blamed myself for not being able to find a job. But sometimes, there are no jobs. How did I eventually settle? I got a job from a distance, in Montana, lived there for a year, and figured out how to move to Alberta. Do not underestimate the difficulty of moving, with a family, to a new place, where you don't have work. It's hard to rent, it's hard to do everything -- and if you choose the wrong place when you settle, you have to do it a second time, often with no guarantee of finding work where you are going. It is a huge gamble, that it's hard to pull the trigger on.

I have some gaps in understanding in this paragraph. You moved from Victoria to US to get a job? In what VISA where you there?

Again, same question as above, how do we avoid choosing a wrong place. Is it even possible to 'choose' a right place from remote, through internet research, without the experience of living and struggling in a wrong place?
 

Asivad Anac

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Deciding on a city to move as a fresh immigrant is a very personalized decision. Or at least it should be. There are a few ways one could think about this and it completely depends on the individual - there is no standard model.

1. Weather

This is very important to most immigrants simply because they come in from countries in the tropical belts without much exposure to Canadian conditions. Canada is cold everywhere? Yes. Is it unlivable? For the large parts, Yes. Do people still adapt and survive? Yes, all the time. If you're moving with family (or even coming here alone), choose a city that makes you feel less uncomfortable. That's the best you can do for now. Google historical weather patterns. Find out the average highs and lows over the years - plan your move and come in towards the end of winter so that you have 3-4 months to get acclimatized before it starts getting cold all over again. It's hard enough moving to a new country with no jobs and/or financial security, it sucks all the more if you have to do it in the middle of a snow storm! Historically, immigrants preferred Vancouver and Toronto because the weather is probably the mildest around these places. If you are a PN, you might not have a choice in terms of 'landing' but you can always move once you are here.

The downside to this strategy is that the place with the mildest temperature might not have the right industry/jobs to match your skills and, more importantly, will already have an abundance of international students, foreign workers, PRs and citizens who you will have to compete with to find your first job.

2. Local connections

Most immigrants tend to have someone from their family/friends/community already established in Canada and naturally gravitate towards those cities. It gives them a sense of belonging which can be extremely helpful once the honeymoon period is over. Having those local networks in place reduces (or at least guides) your own efforts of establishing yourself in a new country. Such support can be basic in nature (where to find the best deals on groceries/housing/driving instructors and stuff) or, if you are lucky, could extend to helping you find a job as well.

The downside to this strategy is that your skills might not be the same as those of your local connections so you are still probably stuck with having to wait considerably longer to start networking professionally.

3. Job markets and unemployment rates (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/01/13/best-cities-for-work-canada-bmo_n_8970958.html)

For professionals, this is probably the most critical data element. You probably want to be in a city where the unemployment rate is at its lowest because that gives you a fighting chance. Of course, this goes together with identifying the industries in that city or thereabouts as well. Just because the unemployment rates are lower (on average) doesn't really mean that everyone is hiring for all possible NOCs at the same time. Do your research on job sites to identify if you can find job postings matching your skills in some/all of these cities and then take a call.

The downside to this strategy is that you probably don't know anyone in Guelph, ON (which has the lowest unemployment rate at this point in time). Or more likely, you haven't heard of Guelph at all. (It's pronounced 'Gwelf' in case you were wondering).

4. Cost of living (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Canada)

As with other parts of the World, living conditions vary across Canada. You have the more expensive metropolises, the medium priced major cities in each province and the less expensive smaller cities everywhere. For a new immigrant burdened with financial insecurities, this would be a big part of your decision making because this would decide when the taps would run dry assuming you don't get a stable job(s) in the first few months. New immigrants can spend anywhere from 70-80% of their monthly budget on housing, heat, utilities, groceries and essentials. In addition to that, you will have a lot of one-time expenses. Lease advances, driving instructions, drivers license fees, buying your first car, buying appliances and furniture etc. Once you stabilize, this should probably account for 35-50% of your monthly budget because you would learn how to cut corners and get the best deals. Factor in your income and that starts looking better even after paying all the taxes. If you live in a larger city, you will probably spend 25-30% more on average or even higher depending on how often you eat out, shop, spend on non-essentials etc. Factor that into your calculations. Choose a city wisely - the URL above gives you indicative prices and cost of living comparisons of major Canadian cities.

The downside to this strategy is that the cheaper cities might not necessarily be the ones where you have an abundance of job opportunities and/or an abundance of social connections. They are cheaper for a reason. They are invariably self sustained economic units which are also probably supported by the provincial government to a fair degree because they want more people to try and move there. And not enough people who want to do that.

5. Random

Even though EE makes it appear that it isn't, immigration is still a lottery. You just 'happened' to have the right skills as conceived and required by IRCC at this point in time. This wasn't part of your plan when you were choosing your majors in college, right? So why not stretch that logic ad absurdum and throw a dart at the map to decide your landing? Jokes aside, this could be a viable strategy for young, single immigrants who have a sense of adventure. You're moving to a new country so feel free to explore the place. Don't land in Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal or Edmonton just because everyone is doing that. Go to Winnipeg, Regina, London, Kitchener-Waterloo, Quebec City, Surrey or any of those other places you might or might not have heard of at all. Of course, employ some method to this madness. Do your research on weather and job markets and choose wisely. Adventures are fun but the mountaineer trains for her climb and packs the right gear before embarking on her expedition.

The downside to this strategy is that you would probably feel lost and lonely for the first few weeks/months before you start making local connections. This is probably not advisable for families.


What next?

As with almost everything in life, the answer would be some combination of these factors. And it would be personalized to your specific situation. I've probably covered most of the reasoning there but there could be some other elements that one might consider before making their own specific decisions. Choose wisely and choose well. Boldly go where few immigrants have gone before. Live long and prosper! 8)


All the best!
 

One_Topsy

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@ Asivad, you're just a genius! Either that or you're well grounded in many areas :)
 

Nebs

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Asivad Anac said:
Deciding on a city to move as a fresh immigrant is a very personalized decision. Or at least it should be. There are a few ways one could think about this and it completely depends on the individual - there is no standard model.

1. Weather

This is very important to most immigrants simply because they come in from countries in the tropical belts without much exposure to Canadian conditions. Canada is cold everywhere? Yes. Is it unlivable? For the large parts, Yes. Do people still adapt and survive? Yes, all the time. If you're moving with family (or even coming here alone), choose a city that makes you feel less uncomfortable. That's the best you can do for now. Google historical weather patterns. Find out the average highs and lows over the years - plan your move and come in towards the end of winter so that you have 3-4 months to get acclimatized before it starts getting cold all over again. It's hard enough moving to a new country with no jobs and/or financial security, it sucks all the more if you have to do it in the middle of a snow storm! Historically, immigrants preferred Vancouver and Toronto because the weather is probably the mildest around these places. If you are a PN, you might not have a choice in terms of 'landing' but you can always move once you are here.

The downside to this strategy is that the place with the mildest temperature might not have the right industry/jobs to match your skills and, more importantly, will already have an abundance of international students, foreign workers, PRs and citizens who you will have to compete with to find your first job.

2. Local connections

Most immigrants tend to have someone from their family/friends/community already established in Canada and naturally gravitate towards those cities. It gives them a sense of belonging which can be extremely helpful once the honeymoon period is over. Having those local networks in place reduces (or at least guides) your own efforts of establishing yourself in a new country. Such support can be basic in nature (where to find the best deals on groceries/housing/driving instructors and stuff) or, if you are lucky, could extend to helping you find a job as well.

The downside to this strategy is that your skills might not be the same as those of your local connections so you are still probably stuck with having to wait considerably longer to start networking professionally.

3. Job markets and unemployment rates (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/01/13/best-cities-for-work-canada-bmo_n_8970958.html)

For professionals, this is probably the most critical data element. You probably want to be in a city where the unemployment rate is at its lowest because that gives you a fighting chance. Of course, this goes together with identifying the industries in that city or thereabouts as well. Just because the unemployment rates are lower (on average) doesn't really mean that everyone is hiring for all possible NOCs at the same time. Do your research on job sites to identify if you can find job postings matching your skills in some/all of these cities and then take a call.

The downside to this strategy is that you probably don't know anyone in Guelph, ON (which has the lowest unemployment rate at this point in time). Or more likely, you haven't heard of Guelph at all. (It's pronounced 'Gwelf' in case you were wondering).

4. Cost of living (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Canada)

As with other parts of the World, living conditions vary across Canada. You have the more expensive metropolises, the medium priced major cities in each province and the less expensive smaller cities everywhere. For a new immigrant burdened with financial insecurities, this would be a big part of your decision making because this would decide when the taps would run dry assuming you don't get a stable job(s) in the first few months. New immigrants can spend anywhere from 70-80% of their monthly budget on housing, heat, utilities, groceries and essentials. In addition to that, you will have a lot of one-time expenses. Lease advances, driving instructions, drivers license fees, buying your first car, buying appliances and furniture etc. Once you stabilize, this should probably account for 35-50% of your monthly budget because you would learn how to cut corners and get the best deals. Factor in your income and that starts looking better even after paying all the taxes. If you live in a larger city, you will probably spend 25-30% more on average or even higher depending on how often you eat out, shop, spend on non-essentials etc. Factor that into your calculations. Choose a city wisely - the URL above gives you indicative prices and cost of living comparisons of major Canadian cities.

The downside to this strategy is that the cheaper cities might not necessarily be the ones where you have an abundance of job opportunities and/or an abundance of social connections. They are cheaper for a reason. They are invariably self sustained economic units which are also probably supported by the provincial government to a fair degree because they want more people to try and move there. And not enough people who want to do that.

5. Random

Even though EE makes it appear that it isn't, immigration is still a lottery. You just 'happened' to have the right skills as conceived and required by IRCC at this point in time. This wasn't part of your plan when you were choosing your majors in college, right? So why not stretch that logic ad absurdum and throw a dart at the map to decide your landing? Jokes aside, this could be a viable strategy for young, single immigrants who have a sense of adventure. You're moving to a new country so feel free to explore the place. Don't land in Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal or Edmonton just because everyone is doing that. Go to Winnipeg, Regina, London, Kitchener-Waterloo, Quebec City, Surrey or any of those other places you might or might not have heard of at all. Of course, employ some method to this madness. Do your research on weather and job markets and choose wisely. Adventures are fun but the mountaineer trains for her climb and packs the right gear before embarking on her expedition.

The downside to this strategy is that you would probably feel lost and lonely for the first few weeks/months before you start making local connections. This is probably not advisable for families.


What next?

As with almost everything in life, the answer would be some combination of these factors. And it would be personalized to your specific situation. I've probably covered most of the reasoning there but there could be some other elements that one might consider before making their own specific decisions. Choose wisely and choose well. Boldly go where few immigrants have gone before. Live long and prosper! 8)


All the best!
Great write up!
 

Hansdza

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One_Topsy said:
@ Asivad, you're just a genius! Either that or you're well grounded in many areas :)
+1 If a were a hiring manager and looking for an employee I would hire Asivad in a heartbeat..
 

chiron

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This is a great thread.

I was looking at a the threads in the Settlement Issues sub-forum and majority of the threads there were really discouraging. Currently, I am engaged in a really good project in terms of work experience and I have fairly solid credentials in my home country and this coupled with the doomsday scenario's presented there was really making me drag my legs in terms of applying for PR. I got my AOR in Feb though I probably could have gone for it in November when the score had gone down to 450. In a way I feel guilty that I declined my ITA twice for the this reason thus depriving someone else who would have applied.

I hope the people who do end up getting PR post their experiences in this thread/forum. I for certain will.
 

Asivad Anac

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Hansdza said:
+1 If a were a hiring manager and looking for an employee I would hire Asivad in a heartbeat..
I wish you were one! :D

And on that note, please do PM me if anyone is (or knows) a hiring manager looking for someone like me. I would be extremely grateful for that.
 

Asivad Anac

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One_Topsy said:
@ Asivad, you're just a genius! Either that or you're well grounded in many areas :)
I don't know about the genius part (apparently my Mensa isn't high enough!) but I do know a few things about a few things and I don't mind sharing and learning... :)
 

sbrs2010

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Asivad you are grounded and have a good touch about what you write. I am surprised at your commitment levels towards the forum. Kudos buddy.
 

DigitalDestiny

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Asivad Anac said:
Deciding on a city to move as a fresh immigrant is a very personalized decision. Or at least it should be. There are a few ways one could think about this and it completely depends on the individual - there is no standard model.

All the best!
Hi Asivad, are you into IT (software development) kind profile ?. How is Kitchener-Waterloo area for tech jobs at this point in time (your assessment) ?. Can one survive using public transport in Kitchener-Waterloo area for initial 4-6 months or buying car is a must ?.

Thanks and Wish you all the Best. You have helped forum members immensely. We all wish and pray that you get everything that you desire from life in Canada.
 

messiry

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Does the employment market in Canada make it difficult for people with non Canadian experience or non Canadian degrees or both ?
 

Asivad Anac

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DigitalDestiny said:
Hi Asivad, are you into IT (software development) kind profile ?. How is Kitchener-Waterloo area for tech jobs at this point in time (your assessment) ?. Can one survive using public transport in Kitchener-Waterloo area for initial 4-6 months or buying car is a must ?.

Thanks and Wish you all the Best. You have helped forum members immensely. We all wish and pray that you get everything that you desire from life in Canada.
1. I'm not in IT/software development now. I've worked in 2173 but that was a while ago.

2. K-W and surroundings is a great place for tech jobs especially for Java professionals and people involved in mobile applications and stuff. There are a lot of companies looking for talent but there is a lot of local talent available especially from University of Waterloo (this is my limited assessment, not an expert opinion on the subject).

3. Buying a car is prudent but not mandatory. Public transport isn't as expansive and great as in some other parts of Canada but the buses should suit you just fine initially. Or you can walk around if you're here in April and later. It's a lovely place with a cosmopolitan and educated population.
 

CanadaWeCome

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Asivad Anac said:
I wish you were one! :D

And on that note, please do PM me if anyone is (or knows) a hiring manager looking for someone like me. I would be extremely grateful for that.
Why don't you apply to IRCC or MCIIT for that matter. You would be a great asset for them, am sure.
 

Asivad Anac

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Does the employment market in Canada make it difficult for people with non Canadian experience or non Canadian degrees or both ?
It depends.

If you've been working for a while, your work experience counts for more than your educational credentials. In that case, the market makes it difficult for foreign talent with limited to zero Canadian work experience. If you're very young with hardly any work experience, the lack of Canadian education would start assuming more importance. Overall, Canadian work experience counts for a lot more than Canadian degrees.