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Finding job after PR

MSiBAT

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DigitalDestiny said:
Thanks and Wish you all the Best. You have helped forum members immensely. We all wish and pray that you get everything that you desire from life in Canada.
My wishes and prayers are the same :)
 

messiry

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Sep 8, 2015
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Asivad Anac said:
It depends.

If you've been working for a while, your work experience counts for more than your educational credentials. In that case, the market makes it difficult for foreign talent with limited to zero Canadian work experience. If you're very young with hardly any work experience, the lack of Canadian education would start assuming more importance. Overall, Canadian work experience counts for a lot more than Canadian degrees.
Thanks , I am trying to determine if immigrants are facing difficulties from both the emerging and developed world or just emerging nations background.
 

Asivad Anac

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messiry said:
Thanks , I am trying to determine if immigrants are facing difficulties from both the emerging and developed world or just emerging nations background.
Both.

Canada in general and Canadian employers in particular aren't allowed to be (and by their very nature, aren't) racist. Canada is probably the polar opposite of what Donald Trump has come to represent.

Everyone faces those challenges. What really makes immigrants from emerging economies more vulnerable is their limitations with communicating in English and other social, cultural, culinary and weather related adaptability issues. Most immigrants from the developed World are used to similar styles of functioning so they adapt better and quicker than immigrants from other parts of the World.

Do remember that this is a very generic judgment - it doesn't apply to every individual - it only applies to population sets as a whole. So your particular experience could be better, equal or lesser than the average immigrant experience.
 

messiry

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Asivad Anac said:
Both.

Canada in general and Canadian employers in particular aren't allowed to be (and by their very nature, aren't) racist. Canada is probably the polar opposite of what Donald Trump has come to represent.

Everyone faces those challenges. What really makes immigrants from emerging economies more vulnerable is their limitations with communicating in English and other social, cultural, culinary and weather related adaptability issues. Most immigrants from the developed World are used to similar styles of functioning so they adapt better and quicker than immigrants from other parts of the World.

Do remember that this is a very generic judgment - it doesn't apply to every individual - it only applies to population sets as a whole. So your particular experience could be better, equal or lesser than the average immigrant experience.
I agree it's very subjective. There is no rule specifically applicable to employers. A lot of people and graduates from Canadian universities with emerging countries background find the job search task easy.
 

DigitalDestiny

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Asivad Anac said:
1. I'm not in IT/software development .....

3. Buying a car is prudent but not mandatory. Public transport isn't as expansive and great as in some other parts of Canada but the buses should suit you just fine initially. Or you can walk around if you're here in April and later. It's a lovely place with a cosmopolitan and educated population.
Thanks Asivad +1
 

kirtivsingh

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narayanf1 said:
Targeted at: Asivad and others who got PR through EE and landed


Assumption: Got PR through EE, not necessarily landed.
Specifics: Jobs in Information Technology
Background: I'm a software developer with 8 years experience in homeland.
Hearsay: Employers hire only Canadian experienced candidates. Permanent Residents have to do some kind of bridging program and do survival jobs like running taxi, attendant at departmental store, etc., for about 2-3 years.


Question: is the hearsay true? have there been such cases? or does it require a good profile and right way to search jobs?

I'm specifically interested in knowing actual experiences. I'm sure many have this question in their mind.
Narayan,

I read your query and responses of Many with correct and some with very vague replies.
I have been living here in ON Canada for 3+ years now. Let me tell you something about my findings and the relation to you afetr you land.

1. The only 3 service industry which work consistently in canada are Doctors, Lawyers and IT.
For you : Software Developers flurish here if you are good at it.
2. Most good jobs are referrals, no matter how transperant they say the system is, one with conatcts is always on top.
For you : Look for contract jobs over full time in the beginning, build your contacts/networking tahn switch to Full time later ( you will need to incorporate asap as you land)
3. If you can do a part time Diploma or something to up your profile, i will strongly recommend that as Canadian employers or anywhere in teh world prefer local studies/Co-op programs.
4. Initially do not get scared or worry about job in your fieild their are many ways to earn a living while you're looking for your feild job (e.g uber, etc).

Good luck if you need any help, you can PM me, I know many good IT recruiters in Toronto area, who will be willing to take resume of a 8 yr experienced software Dev.
 
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CanadaWeCome

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+1 @kirtivsingh
 

narayanf1

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Thank you Asivad, Kirti and everyone. I'm sure, so many responses will definitely help each immigrant. I am happy I posted this question, thankful for the replies and have bookmarked this thread. :)
 

amjk28

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Jan 27, 2015
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Asivad Anac said:
Wrong section of the forum - check Settlement issues and Finding work in Canada for both horror stories and success stories. Of course, you'll find more horror stories. Fear sells. Negativity sells. No newspaper sold more copies because they had a front line news story about school kids of a particular generation being more dynamic, outgoing and resourceful than kids of the previous generation but every newspaper in the World will carry an ISIS story on the front page if they so much as schedule a press conference to announce their next pathetic misadventure!

And that's true of Canada as well. Unsuccessful people outnumber successful people on the forum. Unsuccessful immigrants are heard more often because they make more noise (probably because the successful ones are busy working the levers of the economy) and media loves noisy people. Economic revival is a Pg 13 left bottom story. Economic mishaps are front page news and the stuff of lofty sermonizing editorials.

Having said that, it is true that the Canadian economy is in trouble. In a broader sense, it is headed for more trouble. Iran will push more oil over the next few months into the global market, not great news when oil is already below 30 now. Oil sands aren't lucrative even at twice that price so Alberta will continue its free fall. But hey, Chinese stock market just crashed as well. So did Japan. Australia and South Korea. Wall Street is spooked. Everyone is watching China while no one knows the reality behind the 'Red Curtain'. When China releases more data on its domestic market this week or later, expect more bloodbath. But here is the critical question - does this affect you?

We all lived through 2008. Some lost their jobs, some barely held on while a few went ahead and got great incentives! Canadian job market is not going to be any different. Some immigrants will struggle, some will compromise, some will take sub-optimal jobs while a few will do well for themselves. The bell curve works and works well. The mistake people make is always assume that they are more right on the bell curve than they deserve to be. Immigration is a reality check. If you're an average performer in your home country (in a place where you know how to 'work' the system), you'll be below-average in Canada till you understand how to 'work' the system. If you were above-average there, you'll probably be average in Canada for a while before finding your feet. If you were exceptional, you'll continue to be exceptional - that's probably the only exception!

The point being - be realistic about who you are and what your chances should be. Only people with a strong inner compass would be able to face the harsh realities of moving to a country where they have to start from scratch on almost every area of their life. Of course, it helps tremendously if you effectively communicate in English. Resume shortlists and interviews are decided in the first minute and not having strong command over the language is a terrible handicap for an already disadvantaged immigrant. In addition to that, the cold bogs many people down. Most immigrants into Canada are not from geographies that experience consistently cold/gloomy/rainy weather for most parts of the year. Naturally, they feel out of place for a while and this adds to their paranoia about Canada being an unwelcoming country.

People succeed and fail in Canada for the same reasons they succeed and fail elsewhere on the planet.

1. They compare notes with others and peg their own success goals artificially high. Then they get disappointed when they can't make it there.

2. They have unrealistic expectations from their future which are completely unrelated with their past and/or their present situation.

3. They hear and discuss more about failures than about successes leading to a vicious circle and the birth of a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.

4. They are creatures of habit and find it incredibly difficult to adapt to new situations, circumstances, people, ideas and cultures.

5. They don't persevere enough, toil enough, luck out enough, equip themselves enough or stay optimistic for enough time.

Bottom line, not everyone will make it big in Canada. But not everyone will fail too.

All the best!
Thumbs up! Very well said Asivad!
 

Aal_

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Thank you Asivad, but now I am more scared than i ever was :eek:
 

nope

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number411 said:
Can we generally say that small towns would prefer local candidates and big cities in Canada will be okay with "from away" guys? I am getting it this question - how do we choose a city to attempt first settlement or job search?

I have some gaps in understanding in this paragraph. You moved from Victoria to US to get a job? In what VISA where you there?

Again, same question as above, how do we avoid choosing a wrong place. Is it even possible to 'choose' a right place from remote, through internet research, without the experience of living and struggling in a wrong place?
I'm an American citizen who lived abroad in Asia for many years, and moved to Canada instead of returning to the US, for a number of personal reasons (I'd gone to college in Canada, and the Canadian PR was far better than a green card for my wife).

I'd like to respectfully disagree with Asvid below -- there are not many criteria when choosing where to live. There is only one criteria -- will I get a job? Will I have money? Will I be able to survive? Do NOT go city-shopping, that's what I did, and it did nothing but enable me to trick myself thoroughly. My process was as follows . . .

Let's see, I really don't feel like moving to Toronto, it's too far East and I'd probably end up living in a suburb. Vancouver is too expensive, and the Prairies, well . . . I'm not sure my wife will like the cold weather. They're dry. I don't think I really want to leave Thailand so I can live in Saskatchewan. Victoria's warm, and it's close to my relatives in the States! Oh look, it's beautiful. What about Halifax? Far away, and I guess the economy isn't too good there. I've got a friend in London, Ontario, but it's so far East. Maybe the Okanagan area? I've heard that's really nice, but I'm afraid all those small towns will be hard to get a job in. Victoria's larger than they are . . . maybe I should check out the unemployment rate? Wow, Victoria has the lowest rate in Canada! Well, I know what, I'll apply everywhere for jobs before we move, and if I don't get anything, then I'll move to Victoria.

What I didn't realize is that the unemployment rate is calculated to only include the number of people who are actually looking for jobs -- a huge part of Victoria's population is retired, it does not have a dynamic economy, and most of that is service jobs. There were good reasons for me to live in Victoria, I was 10 miles away from half my relatives, the weather was awesome, and the city beautiful. However, when you don't have a job, the awesome weather, beautiful city, and relatives all turn into nothing. You don't enjoy the weather and the city because you're really worried, and you don't go visit your relatives because you can't pretend things are OK.

Furthermore, Victoria is Canada's 12th largest city! It's not a small town (I told myself). The truth is, Canada's 12th largest city is not very large, nor dynamic. Canada is like a long string of little lights strung across 5000 miles -- the lights are small and not very bright, and the country is huge. Really, when you're thinking about moving here, you really only have about 8-9 choices, and most of those are obviously bad . . . (counting all of southern Ontario as one choice).

When you land there is only one criteria to consider -- WHERE IS MY JOB? It's better to be in Yellowknife with a job than Niagara Falls with a lease and a family and no money coming in. After you've had that job for a while and are doing OK is when you start figuring out what kind of Canadian you want to be. Don't build up some complicated matrix before you get here and decide that you are only going to live in White Rock, B.C., because the climate, your friends, the price of seafood, and the time zone are exactly perfect.

So what should you do now? Go to Ontario. When I came to Canada, Alberta was the place where you could find any kind of work and wages were good. We moved here from Montana at the end of that time, but it's gone now. Ontario is your best bet.
 

nope

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messiry said:
Thanks , I am trying to determine if immigrants are facing difficulties from both the emerging and developed world or just emerging nations background.
I can assure you that immigrants from the developed world face the same challenges, as do Canadians, frankly. I'm from the United States, I have a degree from the University of Toronto, I grew up in Oregon and my accent is difficult to tell from a Canadian. I can make a resume that would give you no indication whatsoever that I am from a foreign country. Of course, I made the mistake of landing in Victoria, and only became stable in Canada two years later when we moved to Edmonton -- I had almost no luck at all even getting a job interview before that.
 

vishalv

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Asivad Anac said:
Just reviving this thread because I replied to another member's PM with some information which I believe would be useful to others as well.

I'm in Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario. My landing was as smooth as could be. Waiting in the queues was longer than the actual time spent with the officers! Very welcoming and very professional. I was impressed. Took me all of 45 minutes to make it from disembarkation to the taxi stand (and that includes a frantic 5 minute search for my baggage which BA had 'helpfully' resettled near their counter!) after completing all the landing formalities. It can be as fast or as slow as you make it. As with anything else in immigration, you decide how the process will treat you. So be prepared with everything and be confident, professional and courteous in your interactions with the officers.

Key observations from personal experience so far

1. Landing

At landing, be confident and smile when you can. Don't be grumpy or tired or evasive when you answer questions. Answer all questions with a quick Yes or No and the smallest possible explanation. Avoid explanations unless specifically asked for. Do NOT attempt to be over friendly or engage in long random conversations at Passport control or Immigration or Customs even if the officer is from the same country/region as you are (that does NOT mean that you have to be non communicative though!). The officers will be helpful but some of them might just mistake your over friendliness as a sign of nervousness and probably ask you additional questions which wouldn't have popped up if you hadn't engaged in casual banter. Be extremely professional, polite and respectful while dealing with them. Once you are a PR, you can be as friendly and verbose as you want with everyone.

2. POF and cash

Carry enough cash/travel cards to survive for 6 months without a job - that will be roughly equal to your POF. Declare anything more than $10000 upfront. Do not make them catch you sneaking in funds. Once in Canada, open a bank account right away and put your money into a Checking account. Most immigrant friendly Canadian banks are not generous with banking transactions - avoid overusing your debit card and know everything about your banking rights before signing up with a bank. Scotiabank and CIBC are both very welcoming and I recommend them for fresh immigrants.

3. Food @ landing

Try and avoid bringing in edibles - Canada is strict with food imports. Most people bring in stuff all the time without any problems but you don't want to be the one who is stopped to have their baggage checked thereby delaying the landing process. it isn't a crime but it will make you nervous at landing and you don't want that. Declare all food items upfront on the B4 form. Most processed edibles and other food items are fine (http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/information-for-consumers/travellers/what-can-i-bring-into-canada-/eng/1389648337546/1389648516990) but everything is available locally and there really is no need to fly in anything from outside unless it is your long dead great grandmother's last batch of marinara sauce whose recipe sleeps peacefully with her (you know what I mean!).

4. Documents @ landing

Passport(s), COPR(s), extra photographs, 2 copies of B4 form (for goods carried along with you), 2 copies of B4A form (if you have goods to follow), local Canadian address printed on plain paper and POF (in the form of cash/travel card/travelers cheques/recent Canadian or foreign bank statements/fixed deposit receipts) are enough for a smooth and safe landing for most immigrants and these should be in your hand baggage so that you have easy access to those when required. If you have any special circumstances (carrying a pet or importing your car, for instance), keep those documents on person as well.

5. Weather

Be prepared for cold weather if you are coming over anytime between November and April. Carry and wear some warm clothes and buy more locally when you arrive. Download the Weather app on your smartphone - the MOST important app for the first few weeks. It will help you know what to expect later in the day/week so that you can plan your time better.

6. First day/week in Canada

Focus on settling down first before going job hunting. Getting a SIN, bank account, mobile connection, Internet/broadband, driver license, buying a car, finding a place to live, groceries and essentials are more important in the first few weeks/month. Job hunting can be done on the Internet simultaneously or it can wait for a while. Walk into Services Canada at the first available opportunity and they will help you with how to get some of the other stuff done (if you ask them nicely and if they aren't busy).

7. Initial expenses

Things will feel expensive especially as you probably aren't earning and because you wouldn't know the best bargains in your neighborhood so be prepared to feel financially insecure for the first few months. The larger your family, the more you will spend. Spend wisely but don't skimp on essentials. Warm clothes, nutritious meals, healthcare aren't luxury, they are essentials. Some provinces don't provide health insurance from Day 1. Invest in a health insurance plan before you arrive (if possible) or buy one immediately afterwards - get something that covers you for 90 days and includes travel insurance as well (if you're getting this done before landing in Canada). Ask recommendations to good realtors - they would typically charge the owner (not you!) so you can have someone doing home hunting on your behalf and you might not have to pay them anything at all.

8. Networking

Start networking within your own regional/national/religious/familial community - they would help a lot upfront. Don't restrict yourself to those people/groups but start with those and then expand your personal and professional network. Improve your language skills, look out for provincial organizations who can help you for free. Get on LinkedIn if you aren't there already. Customize your resume to Canadian styles - there are formats available online. Get a local phone number and put it in there. Anglicize your name on the resume if your native name sounds too exotic - unfortunately that's the first thing that gets judged and your resume will be binned before they've finished reading your long surname. This doesn't mean that you invent a new name for yourself as that's misrepresentation but do consider some possibilities of somehow making your ethinc or geographical identity less conspicuous during the first glance at your resume. Canadian employers are required, by law, to NOT discriminate on the basis of identity but it happens all the time. There are job sites all over the place - apply wherever you think you have a fighting chance. Don't expect responses in hours/days, it typically takes weeks/months to get a response, if at all.

9. Right job MYTH

Don't wait indefinitely for the right job - they don't exist for fresh immigrants. Accept any job connected to your NOC or area of interest and don't mind the pay/position for your 1st job. It is better having that job for now than feeling suicidal after 6 months of job hunt looking for the right job and burning all your cash. I strongly advise NOT to take survival jobs at gas stations or fast food outlets but do it only if there is no other option. Accept any job in the ballpark of your NOC even if it means that you drop 1-2 levels below compared to your last job. Swallow your pride for now. If you work hard (which you will considering you're a fresh immigrant in a foreign country), let the results speak for themselves and negotiate for a better position 6-12 months down the line.

10. Get used to rejections

Always remember that immigration was your personal decision and, technically, the country owes you nothing beyond allowing you to come in and make a life here. They will still help you wherever possible but don't take them for granted. Be grateful for any support you receive from them but be prepared for rejections and disappointments. If you've ever worked in Sales, you'll know the feeling of living with a 1% success rate all the time. Most salespeople in the World have 99 disappointments for every 1 sale that goes through and that's a hard life but that 1 success more than makes up for all the disappointments and gradually one gets better at improving their success rate as well. That's the general idea with immigration as well. Get used to it.


The economy isn't great right now. Unemployment rates are lower in Ontario and BC (compared to the national average) but all other provinces have challenges especially in the bigger cities which attract most immigrants. Explore smaller cities - Canada is much more than just GTA, Vancouver and Montreal. Most professional jobs would involve higher levels of competition so be prepared for early rejections. Also be prepared to not have it easy if you don't have any Canadian work experience. Be prepared to feel frustrated, depressed and morose after the early euphoria of having finally made it to Canada.

Bottom line, be prepared for rejection. A lot of it. Till you find your place to shine. Which you will. Always remember that you made it this far and there is no reason you won't make it further. The only person holding you back? Look in the mirror.


All the best!
Amazing article. You have explained clearly and concisely the initial experience of landing in Canada.
 
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sqid.madoma

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I second everything Asivad Anac said. his psts were great.


For me it was "easy" because I found my job while still in my country of origin. But for my spouse it is very difficult even if she made some progress. But in the process we learned a few things that I think can be interesting. Some of these topics have already been mentionned by others. Just so you know we both come from Europe and speak pretty well English (although not 100% fluent), and i don't think coming from a "developed" country particularly helps.

Experience vs Diploma


My spouse just graduated from a master degree in International relations before we arrived. So we thought it would be easy for her to find a job in her field.
Very soon we realized that in Canada, experience is more valued than diplomas. Canadian experience especially. Actually, for most of the positions she applied for, she noticed that almost no one got a master but only a bachelor degree with a lot of diffferent experience as interns. It is kind of a shock for us because in Europe a lot of these positions would never have been granted to a bachelor. Even a hiring manager that she met admitted that.
My advice would be, that if you can afford it, do internships in your field, volunteer, start in a company that works in your field even if it means starting at a level lower than the one you had in your country. You need that experience to start off !


Resume

Your resume and cover letter have to be adapted to the Canadian market!!!
Again my spouse applied for a lot of job in the 2 first months with her european formatted cv (not even a resume) and could not understand why she could not even get a job interview even for a job office as receptionist for which she have experience. After reading a lot on internet she realized the format of her cv was really not adapted. Once she changed the cv to a resume and adapted it to the Canadian market, she got some job interviews.

Networking

Something that was completely new for us, networking. Nobody does that from where we are from but here it is very common and can totally help you. Create a good linkendin profile, and go at job fair, conference,wherever you can meet people in your field. contact people via Linkedin and ask them if they would be willing to discuss about what they are doing...etc You can find a thousand of articles on the internet about networking, how to contact people, how to increase your network. That can be very useful, and that can definitely help you if you know someone in your field to be aware of what is going on in the market. Sometimes you can have someone refer for you to the hiring manager so you can get an interview.

Do NOT underestimate networking. I can tell you that this is a very powerful tool. Being an immigrant is already hard enough, take all the help you can!

Place of living

You can do all of the things I mentionned above, if you are in a place where there are no, or only a few jobs suited to you, it will be extremely hard to get a position.
Calgary is a great city for people who want to work in science like me, and it used to be great also for people who working in the oil field.
But for people in international relations like my spouse, there is almost nothing, one job position per month is advertised on average. The odds of succeding are quite low for her. Sometimes it is not your fault, you are just at the wrong place. If she was in Ottowa, it would be way easier for her to find a job, as more people are looking for her skill set and, there are way ore openings in that field (but in my science field there is almost nothing). That is the reason why it is important to carefully choose your place of living.
For now we are stuck in Calgary because of me, but we definitely already thinking about moving somewhere else if after a long time we cannot find anything for her here.

Another thing is that Canadian citizens and Permanent residents are given priority over foreign workers for a lot of positions, especially in international affairs. For some positions she could not even apply because she was not a PR. Actually that is the reason why we are applying now.


Hope this helps.
 

axlh17

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Mar 19, 2016
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Thank you guys for all the valuable information. I'm curious, as to whether a degree and working experience from United States would be looked upon better, as it seems Canadian working experience is really important when finding a job.