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Entry into Canada (via road) with expired PR Card. Help/Suggestion/Input needed

OchreNomad

Newbie
Apr 25, 2018
3
0
Hello CanadaVisa,

How are you all doing today?

Okay, so this is regarding my mum's PR.
I'll post the incident from yesterday and the question i have first, followed by the backstory, just to save a few of you a wall of text.

Mum landed in Canada as PR: Dec 2008
Departed Canada: Jan 2009
Card expired: Jan 2014
Incident I'm about to mention: This week

I (Canadian PR) drove my mum up to the border in my car. Rolled up to the gate, presented the passports and cards. The officer manning the gate asked us a few questions about my mum's absence and sent us in for secondary questioning.
Inside, the officer called us up to his desk and started questioning us. He got a pen and paper to jot down the timeline to find my mistakes so that i can't refuse later on (his words). He rushed me, twisted my words and asked the questions again to make break my flow (??) to see if my story would hold up when attacked, maybe. I mentioned I had all the documents with me (a file thicker than my wrist). He said he didn't want the docs but wanted me to tell him everything - Why was my mother away from Canada for 9 years and why was she only coming back now.
After I'd told him everything, he took the documents (along with the letter of decision for my RO appeal with the IAD - Appeal was filed with almost the same docs on H&C grounds), asked us to sit and went in the back. 40 minutes later, he comes back and calls us up again.

His words:
"This office does not have the resources to process cancelling her residency. So, I'm letting her in. You'll have to take this up yourself with IRCC. You can go." while handing back my mum's PR card to her.

No official letter given, no mention of reporting her, no directives about her having to appeal within 60 days to save her PR.

So, now that she's in - stay on for 730 days and apply for Pr card renewal? or am i supposed to do something here? Do i start a new application with IRCC for my mother, which will most certainly be denied due to RO not being met?
any and all input is highly appreciated.



BACKSTORY, for context:
We landed in Canada in Dec 2008 (point based PR, father being the main applicant). We received our new PR cards in Jan 2009 (expiry Jan 2014). My sister stayed on as she was already enrolled for school in DT Toronto. My parents and I returned to the home country end of Jan 2009, owing it to my maternal Grandma's poor health ( serious back issues due to injuries).

2011 rolls around and we are planning on moving back to Canada now that my grandma is doing much better. It's decided that all three of us will move back to Canada in 2011 Q4 after wrapping up everything.

July 2011, my grandmother fell and broke her hip. She's been bedridden ever since.
15 days after my grandmother fell, my dad passed away, rather suddenly.

Our lives were turned inside out with the back to back shocks. We stayed on, dealing with things as they came up. New city, grandmother in and out of hospitals, settling down, nurse on call, learning to tend to my grandmother, onset of dementia. slow but sure muscle atrophy.

Finally, I moved back to Canada in Dec 2013 a month before the card expired) while my mum stayed back to care for my grandma. Luckily, i was let back in without being reported. Sadly, i had to leave Canada yet again before my 2 years of RO were met. Once things were sorted out, I applied for PRTD. Denied. I Appealed with IAD. 12 months later, I won. PRTD acquired. (Back in Canada now, PR card et al).

After my PRTD was granted and before i could fly back, my grandma passed away. I flew with my mum to USA where she stayed on while i got back to Canada. After a few months, Mum flew back to wrap everything up and came back to the USA in Q1 2018. She ended up staying in USA for 3+ months as i was in the middle of a move across Canada because of a new job.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,268
3,028
Hello CanadaVisa,

How are you all doing today?

Okay, so this is regarding my mum's PR.
I'll post the incident from yesterday and the question i have first, followed by the backstory, just to save a few of you a wall of text.

Mum landed in Canada as PR: Dec 2008
Departed Canada: Jan 2009
Card expired: Jan 2014
Incident I'm about to mention: This week

I (Canadian PR) drove my mum up to the border in my car. Rolled up to the gate, presented the passports and cards. The officer manning the gate asked us a few questions about my mum's absence and sent us in for secondary questioning.
Inside, the officer called us up to his desk and started questioning us. He got a pen and paper to jot down the timeline to find my mistakes so that i can't refuse later on (his words). He rushed me, twisted my words and asked the questions again to make break my flow (??) to see if my story would hold up when attacked, maybe. I mentioned I had all the documents with me (a file thicker than my wrist). He said he didn't want the docs but wanted me to tell him everything - Why was my mother away from Canada for 9 years and why was she only coming back now.
After I'd told him everything, he took the documents (along with the letter of decision for my RO appeal with the IAD - Appeal was filed with almost the same docs on H&C grounds), asked us to sit and went in the back. 40 minutes later, he comes back and calls us up again.

His words:
"This office does not have the resources to process cancelling her residency. So, I'm letting her in. You'll have to take this up yourself with IRCC. You can go." while handing back my mum's PR card to her.

No official letter given, no mention of reporting her, no directives about her having to appeal within 60 days to save her PR.

So, now that she's in - stay on for 730 days and apply for Pr card renewal? or am i supposed to do something here? Do i start a new application with IRCC for my mother, which will most certainly be denied due to RO not being met?
any and all input is highly appreciated.



BACKSTORY, for context:
We landed in Canada in Dec 2008 (point based PR, father being the main applicant). We received our new PR cards in Jan 2009 (expiry Jan 2014). My sister stayed on as she was already enrolled for school in DT Toronto. My parents and I returned to the home country end of Jan 2009, owing it to my maternal Grandma's poor health ( serious back issues due to injuries).

2011 rolls around and we are planning on moving back to Canada now that my grandma is doing much better. It's decided that all three of us will move back to Canada in 2011 Q4 after wrapping up everything.

July 2011, my grandmother fell and broke her hip. She's been bedridden ever since.
15 days after my grandmother fell, my dad passed away, rather suddenly.

Our lives were turned inside out with the back to back shocks. We stayed on, dealing with things as they came up. New city, grandmother in and out of hospitals, settling down, nurse on call, learning to tend to my grandmother, onset of dementia. slow but sure muscle atrophy.

Finally, I moved back to Canada in Dec 2013 a month before the card expired) while my mum stayed back to care for my grandma. Luckily, i was let back in without being reported. Sadly, i had to leave Canada yet again before my 2 years of RO were met. Once things were sorted out, I applied for PRTD. Denied. I Appealed with IAD. 12 months later, I won. PRTD acquired. (Back in Canada now, PR card et al).

After my PRTD was granted and before i could fly back, my grandma passed away. I flew with my mum to USA where she stayed on while i got back to Canada. After a few months, Mum flew back to wrap everything up and came back to the USA in Q1 2018. She ended up staying in USA for 3+ months as i was in the middle of a move across Canada because of a new job.
Appears she may have gotten lucky. Or, the ultimate outcome of your appeal may have been what tipped the scales favourably.

Either way, it appears she is in and if she stays for the next two years without engaging in any transactions with CBSA or IRCC, odds are good she will then have cured any PR Residency Obligation breach.

No guarantees. Among the possible alternatives, and despite not being Reported upon arrival at the PoE, the CBSA officer could still make a referral to IRCC and IRCC could follow-up with an investigation including a formal PR RO compliance examination. This seems unlikely, but it is possible. IRCC is plenty busy chasing more serious matters.

If she travels outside Canada in less than two years, she faces potentially being reported upon her next entry. Despite the success this time, this would be very risky. And if she is Reported, there is a very substantial risk that the outcome of an appeal will not go the ways yours did. Not advisable if avoidable.

Obviously, if she applies for a PR card sooner rather than waiting for two years, the outcome of that will depend on making a successful H&C case. Even the strongest H&C case can be tricky and difficult and is very risky.

Lowest risk approach is to sit tight for two full years. Without a health card that could be practically difficult. Assuming she obtained a SIN the first time around, that is still good (may need reactivation, but that should not be a problem). Two years tends to go by a lot more quickly than we often realize . . . unless there is a compelling health concern or a compelling reason to travel, and then it can seem like forever. Nonetheless, sitting tight for two years, staying below the immigration radar, has very good odds of working, and then she is good to go, as in good to stay even if she does some going and coming AFTER that.
 

OchreNomad

Newbie
Apr 25, 2018
3
0
Thanks for the reply, dpenabill!! I appreciate it.

That;s what i figured as well. That the officer must have gone through the documents, my file as well as my appeal and let her in, even with the long since expired PR Card. That's some wild luck.

As for leaving Canada, she's here for good. Continuing to live on for 730 days is pretty much why i had her go back beforehand to wrap everything up Short of some unforeseen circumstances, she'll continue to live here.

As per my understanding, SIN goes dormant/deactivated after 5 years of inactivity. Can it be reactivated if need be? or do i apply for a new SIN for her?

Again, thanks for the reply.
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,427
1,551
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
21-08-2012
Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
Thanks for the reply, dpenabill!! I appreciate it.

That;s what i figured as well. That the officer must have gone through the documents, my file as well as my appeal and let her in, even with the long since expired PR Card. That's some wild luck.

As for leaving Canada, she's here for good. Continuing to live on for 730 days is pretty much why i had her go back beforehand to wrap everything up Short of some unforeseen circumstances, she'll continue to live here.

As per my understanding, SIN goes dormant/deactivated after 5 years of inactivity. Can it be reactivated if need be? or do i apply for a new SIN for her?

Again, thanks for the reply.
I agree with above, just sit tight for 2 years and make sure she doesn't leave Canada for any reason. After 2 years when back in compliance with the RO, she can then apply to renew her PR card. This is all assuming the CBSA officer never reported her to IRCC.

You can re-activate a dormant SIN, several others in similar situations have done this. As I understand the SIN people do not routinely talk to IRCC about PRs absence from Canada.

She should also try to get a health card. Does she have her original COPR/Record of Landing document? If not, then only way to prove her PR status may be to request a Verification of Status from IRCC, or a replacement copy of her landing document. I don't know if this starts a residency obligation check as well, so be cautious.
 

OchreNomad

Newbie
Apr 25, 2018
3
0
Yes, She has her CoPR. She had a health card issued back when she was here.

Perhaps, I should go to Service Canada and see if the SIN can be reactivated. Someone mentioned that the health card can be issued on an expired PR card as well as long as it's no older than 5 years.
 

emamabd

Champion Member
Jun 22, 2012
1,813
428
Someone mentioned that the health card can be issued on an expired PR card as well as long as it's no older than 5 years.
I recently renewed my health card, my PR card expired a month ago. Was only asked for the driving licence and that was it. Although online it says that they also need an immigration document, but probably its because they were satisfied with the COPR document they already have in file.

Anyway, it says below that expired PR cards are accepted too, as long as its below 5 years. so that's covered ,
https://www.ontario.ca/page/documents-needed-get-health-card

However she needs to have a document that proves she lives in Ontario, any of the below would work, if she drives i would vote for a driving license..even G1 would suffice:

Proof of residency in Ontario
A second, different document needs to prove you live in Ontario – choose one from this list:

  • valid Ontario driver's licence
  • temporary driver's licence
    • only if accompanied by photo licence card with the same address
  • valid Ontario Photo Card
  • original, mailed utility bill (e.g. cable TV, hydro, gas, water)
  • monthly mailed bank account statements for savings or chequing accounts
    • does not include receipts, bank books, letters or automated teller receipts
  • employer record (e.g. pay stub, letter from employer on company letterhead)
  • school, college or university report card or transcript
  • Child Tax Benefit statement
  • most recent income tax Notice of Assessment
  • insurance policy (e.g. home, tenant, auto or life)
  • mortgage, rental or lease agreement
  • Ontario motor vehicle permit (plate or vehicle portions)
  • property tax bill
  • statement of direct deposit for Ontario Works or for Ontario Disability Support Program (ODSP)
  • statement of Employment Insurance Benefits Paid (T4E)
  • statement of Old Age Security (T4A) or statement of Canada Pension Plan Benefits (T4A) (P)
  • Any of the following statements from a bank, trust company or credit union:
    • Registered Retirement Savings Plan (RRSP)
    • Registered Retirement Income Fund (RRIF)
    • Registered Home Ownership Savings Plan (RHOSP)
  • Workplace Safety and Insurance Board Statement of Benefits (T5007)
  • Canada Pension Plan Statement of Contributions