+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Entering Canada by land with expired PR card - RO not met

smsmsm

Member
Apr 22, 2015
17
0
This is generally NOT considered a valid H&C reason.



If you apply for a PR TD, most likely it will be rejected which will automatically start process to revoke your PR status.

If you somehow got a PR TD on H&C reasons (very unlikely), then you could return to Canada without fear of being reported, and immediately apply for new PR card.

If you skip the PR TD process you can attempt to enter Canada by land via USA border.
If reported by CBSA, again this will start process to revoke PR status.
If not reported, you can then stay in Canada 2 straight years without leaving to come back into compliance with the RO and renew PR card. However as you mentioned, it may be difficult to live here 2 years with no PR card or original COPR.

If you're reported or are rejected for PR TD, you can appeal. However since you don't have a valid H&C reason, most likely outcome is your appeal will also be rejected and you'll just lose your PR status a few years later and be asked to leave Canada if you're here waiting for the appeal.
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
5,557
1,901
Not to mention no healthcare coverage for several years. Generally, it seems copies of your COPR are not accepted, probably due to forgeries, at least by government agencies.
 

smsmsm

Member
Apr 22, 2015
17
0
This is generally NOT considered a valid H&C reason.



If you apply for a PR TD, most likely it will be rejected which will automatically start process to revoke your PR status.

If you somehow got a PR TD on H&C reasons (very unlikely), then you could return to Canada without fear of being reported, and immediately apply for new PR card.

If you skip the PR TD process you can attempt to enter Canada by land via USA border.
If reported by CBSA, again this will start process to revoke PR status.
If not reported, you can then stay in Canada 2 straight years without leaving to come back into compliance with the RO and renew PR card. However as you mentioned, it may be difficult to live here 2 years with no PR card or original COPR.

If you're reported or are rejected for PR TD, you can appeal. However since you don't have a valid H&C reason, most likely outcome is your appeal will also be rejected and you'll just lose your PR status a few years later and be asked to leave Canada if you're here waiting for the appeal.
thanks so much for ur reply, so i think my best option is via USA, but how to increase my chances in order not to be reported and i don’t have PR card or original COPR (I only have a copy of it) and I have SSN card & G2 driving license expired, this is my problem now???
 

smsmsm

Member
Apr 22, 2015
17
0
Not to mention no healthcare coverage for several years. Generally, it seems copies of your COPR are not accepted, probably due to forgeries, at least by government agencies.
Not to mention no healthcare coverage for several years. Generally, it seems copies of your COPR are not accepted, probably due to forgeries, at least by government agencies.
i think i can solve that by applying for Verification of Status (VOS) and also I still have my old passport with landing visa and SSN card & G2 driving license expired, I think this will show that I am a real PR person, isn’t?
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,452
1,544
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
21-08-2012
Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
i think i can solve that by applying for Verification of Status (VOS) and also I still have my old passport with landing visa and SSN card & G2 driving license expired, I think this will show that I am a real PR person, isn’t?
You don't mention what province you're going to. However in most, a SIN, old visa, and drivers license, do NOT prove your PR status. Provinces will have a specific list of what they will accept, and if you don't have 1 of the docs mentioned you will not get health coverage.
i.e. for Ontario OHIP: http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/014-9998E-82~5/$File/9998-82E.pdf

If you go the route of "sneaking" into Canada without being reported and hope to stay for 2 years, then I'm not sure if applying for VOS will result in your RO being discovered and process started to revoke PR status. While staying here for 2 years, you are supposed to stay under the radar and not contact IRCC for any reason.
 

smsmsm

Member
Apr 22, 2015
17
0
You don't mention what province you're going to. However in most, a SIN, old visa, and drivers license, do NOT prove your PR status. Provinces will have a specific list of what they will accept, and if you don't have 1 of the docs mentioned you will not get health coverage.
i.e. for Ontario OHIP: http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/014-9998E-82~5/$File/9998-82E.pdf

If you go the route of "sneaking" into Canada without being reported and hope to stay for 2 years, then I'm not sure if applying for VOS will result in your RO being discovered and process started to revoke PR status. While staying here for 2 years, you are supposed to stay under the radar and not contact IRCC for any reason.
Toronto, and thanks for flagging these notes, but still my main problem now how to enter without being reported???

I think if I was married to a Canadian for 730 days of during the 5 yrs of being PR, it could solve my problem, isn’t?

And also, what H&C reasons I could use?
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,452
1,544
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
21-08-2012
Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
Toronto, and thanks for flagging these notes, but still my main problem now how to enter without being reported???
Luck.

I think if I was married to a Canadian for 730 days of during the 5 yrs of being PR, it could solve my problem, isn’t?
Are you married to a Canadian? If not, then doesn't really matter what the rule is.

And also, what H&C reasons I could use?
Basically the serious medical condition of a family member that required you to stay in home country, supported by diagnosis and letters from doctors and hospitals.

Based on what you've stated, you do not qualify for any H&C reasons. You made a personal choice to stay outside Canada for employment purposes.
 

Rob_TO

VIP Member
Nov 7, 2012
11,452
1,544
Toronto
Category........
FAM
Visa Office......
Seoul, Korea
App. Filed.......
13-07-2012
AOR Received.
18-08-2012
File Transfer...
21-08-2012
Med's Done....
Sent with App
Passport Req..
N/R - Exempt
VISA ISSUED...
30-10-2012
LANDED..........
16-11-2012
i think u meant, if yes, isn't ?
No. If you aren't married to a Canadian, then the rule is meaningless to you.

You didn't mention anything at all in your original post about being married to a Canadian, so are you?
 

smsmsm

Member
Apr 22, 2015
17
0
No. If you aren't married to a Canadian, then the rule is meaningless to you.

You didn't mention anything at all in your original post about being married to a Canadian, so are you?
no, I am not married to a Canadian, but if I was then it would have been easy to count the days she is with me (730 days) during the 5 yrs after landing as being inside Canada, isn't?
 

kateg

Hero Member
Aug 26, 2014
918
84
119
British Columbia
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2015
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
01-05-2015
IELTS Request
05-05-2015
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
N/A
Med's Done....
16-04-2015
Interview........
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
N/A
LANDED..........
27-08-2015
Usually with the rejection of a PR TD for not meeting RO, CIC also starts process to revoke your PR. You may get this info soon that your PR is being revoked, and you would need to appeal to keep it..
They pretty much have to.

The IRPA states:

Status document
  • 31 (1) A permanent resident and a protected person shall be provided with a document indicating their status.
If you have status, you are entitled to a status document, so if they deny you one, you have problems.
 

smsmsm

Member
Apr 22, 2015
17
0
They pretty much have to.

The IRPA states:



If you have status, you are entitled to a status document, so if they deny you one, you have problems.
thanks, but still till now, dont know what to do? how to cross via USA without being reported?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
4,315
1,461
Clarification: The denial of a PR TD application does NOT start the process to revoke a PR's status: it is itself the decision which revokes PR status.

The person subject to a denied PR TD application has a right of appeal. If the PR does not timely appeal, PR status is lost. IRCC does not need to do anything more for the revocation of PR status to take effect. Again, the decision to deny the PR TD does that, its operation and effect is the termination of PR status (unless it is an adjudication that the individual did not have PR status to begin with . . . that is, if the PR TD is denied for reasons other than inadmissibility).

If the PR timely appeals, the operation and effect of the decision denying the PR TD is, in effect, stayed pending the outcome of the appeal. The PR must either win the appeal, or pursuant to agreement by IRCC have the denial of the PR TD set aside without the appeal being heard, in order to keep PR status. (Example of latter: a year or so ago an older, long-term Canadian PR was abroad, in Russia, and needed a PR TD to return to Canada; her PR TD application was denied despite her being fully entitled to one. The story went public, there was an outcry against IRCC, and IRCC agreed to reconsider the PR TD application, without the lengthy process of an appeal, and promptly granted the PR TD, as it should have in the first place.)


There is a similar misunderstanding oft posted in this forum about being Reported at a PoE. Almost always the review by the Minister's Delegate takes place more or less immediately, and a Departure Order is issued if it is determined that a report for inadmissibility based on a breach of the PR Residency Obligation is valid in law and there are not sufficient H&C reasons to justify retention of PR status. This does NOT "begin" the process of revoking PR status but is in fact the formal decision which revokes PR status. Again, the PR has a right to appeal. PR status is lost if the PR does not appeal, or if the PR appeals but loses the appeal.
 

kateg

Hero Member
Aug 26, 2014
918
84
119
British Columbia
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2015
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
01-05-2015
IELTS Request
05-05-2015
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
N/A
Med's Done....
16-04-2015
Interview........
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
N/A
LANDED..........
27-08-2015
thanks, but still till now, dont know what to do? how to cross via USA without being reported?
You likely will be reported. It entirely depends on the mood of the agent. When people are reported, a hearing is scheduled, and barring Humanitarian and Compassionate grounds, status is generally lost.

If you want to keep PR status, you should follow the rules, or have a very good reason for not doing so. Canada is merciful - if you have a genuine need to leave for a time, they understand. The reasons need to be important, though - things like caring for a sick relative who can't care for themselves.
 

kateg

Hero Member
Aug 26, 2014
918
84
119
British Columbia
Category........
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
01-05-2015
Nomination.....
N/A
AOR Received.
01-05-2015
IELTS Request
05-05-2015
File Transfer...
N/A
Med's Request
N/A
Med's Done....
16-04-2015
Interview........
N/A
VISA ISSUED...
N/A
LANDED..........
27-08-2015
Clarification: The denial of a PR TD application does NOT start the process to revoke a PR's status: it is itself the decision which revokes PR status.
Yep. They can't deny a Permanent Resident a status document, by law. To deny the status document (barring procedural issues, incomplete applications, etc.), they have to strip one of PR status.

If the PR timely appeals, the operation and effect of the decision denying the PR TD is, in effect, stayed pending the outcome of the appeal. The PR must either win the appeal, or pursuant to agreement by IRCC have the denial of the PR TD set aside without the appeal being heard, in order to keep PR status. (Example of latter: a year or so ago an older, long-term Canadian PR was abroad, in Russia, and needed a PR TD to return to Canada; her PR TD application was denied despite her being fully entitled to one. The story went public, there was an outcry against IRCC, and IRCC agreed to reconsider the PR TD application, without the lengthy process of an appeal, and promptly granted the PR TD, as it should have in the first place.)
That case was rather weird, and they violated procedural fairness. Unlike temporary residents (who have very little rights, and very little recourse), Permanent Residents have right of entry, right to status documents, etc., as long as they follow the rules. Because they refused to look at her supporting documentation, her rights were violated. Although the burden is on the PR to prove they meet the requirements, they are obligated to actually look at the evidence before making a determination.

There is a similar misunderstanding oft posted in this forum about being Reported at a PoE. Almost always the review by the Minister's Delegate takes place more or less immediately, and a Departure Order is issued if it is determined that a report for inadmissibility based on a breach of the PR Residency Obligation is valid in law and there are not sufficient H&C reasons to justify retention of PR status. This does NOT "begin" the process of revoking PR status but is in fact the formal decision which revokes PR status. Again, the PR has a right to appeal. PR status is lost if the PR does not appeal, or if the PR appeals but loses the appeal.
Some of the confusion likely comes from the appeals. When people don't appeal, they generally get 60 days to conclude their affairs in Canada. When people do appeal, it can take 18 months to 4 years, depending on the case load and location. The appeals also have hearings, and evidence can be presented.

If someone's PR travel document is denied, it can also be appealed. From what I recall, if you visited Canada in the last year, they will give you a PRTD and limited-validity card for an in-Canada appeal, otherwise it's done outside Canada.