DEPRESSION SETTING IN - HELP - INDIAN - SENIORS - HELPPPPP!!!

[david1697]

I think if one is in skilled trades, like Polara is, then one may fare well.

But what do you do if you are not a crane operator? What you do if you are college educated and not physically fit to do a hard labor or construction jobs?

It's great that Canada still has opportunities in its' blue collar industry, but what you do if you have no background or skills whatsoever to enter that industry? I have studied political science, social management and legal subjects. Do I have to now learn how to operate a crane to become employable?
Even if I do what kind of crane operator I will become? Miserable, unhappy, doing something I never wanted to do.

Something, on macro economic scale, has broken in the past 5 years. It doesn't work. The more FSW PR arriving to Canada = the more jobless, underemployed population competing for non-existent or scarce jobs.

Such a waste, to go through so many hurdles, to try so hard and get a PR, only to discover that you can't make a living in Canada.

Beautiful country,but underperforming economy....

 

[rhcohen2014]

I think if one is in skilled trades, like Polara is, then one may fare well.

But what do you do if you are not a crane operator? What you do if you are college educated and not physically fit to do a hard labor or construction jobs?

It's great that Canada still has opportunities in its' blue collar industry, but what you do if you have no background or skills whatsoever to enter that industry? I have studied political science, social management and legal subjects. Do I have to now learn how to operate a crane to become employable?

there are plenty of professional jobs available in canada. from experience, it's pretty unrealistic to think someone will be able to get high level, high paying jobs right off the bat as a new comer. getting a job in canada is the same as geting a job in the us. it involves finding a way to market yourself to prospective employers and showing them what makes you the best choice for the role. it is also about networking, which is quite diffifcult to do if you are not physically where you want to be working. any newcomer needs to realize that it may take some lower level jobs to get a foot in the door at a good company. if it takes an average canadian (in ontario) 6-8 months to get a job straight out of college or after unemployment, how can a foreign immigrant expect it to take any less time to get a fulltime high paying job? if you and your wife want to work in Canada then you need to MOVE to canada and accept the fact that your US experince is not going to give you all the credit you think it will. There are slight differences in the way canadian companies do things, and there is slight differences the language used in each industry. just because you have legal experience in the us, it certainly doesn't mean you would qualify for an equal job in canada. there are different laws, policies, proceedures and language used in everyday business. while these are slight differences, they actually matter a lot when a recruiter doesn't see any canadian experience or references in an application.

personally, i was able to leverage my relationship with a company that has offices in us and canada to get my first part time job. i just secured a second job with more hours and higher pay because of my affiliation with a settlement agency. i hold a bachelor and master degree, and over 10 years of professional experience in multiple industries. getting a job after landing needs to be seen as a stepping stone to a desired career. really, the only people who can get full time professional jobs that pay well right off the bat (beside sales people), need to either hold a specific canadian license (which takes time and money) or have a super specific skill that many other people don't have... even then it's going to take time. employers don't want jacks of all trades that can do anything. they need and look for people who fill specific needs. the responsiblity of the jobseeker is to show how they fit THAT specific need. until that is done, results will be unsucessful. also, not all employers care about how much higher education a person has. i actually take my master degree off my resume because it can work against me when applying for lower level jobs. it can scare recruiters away for many reason out of my control, so i choose to market myself accordingly.

i think your outlook on what it takes to get a job is highly dilusional. very few people actually get a job just by lobbing 100s of resumes into the black hole that is online recruiting, no matter if you are in the us or canada. the same resume isn't going to work for a 100 different jobs. sending standard resumes and cover letters don't work anymore. they need to be specific to the specific company and role. these days, there's very little success when the internet is the only source of finding a job and the applicant isn't taking care to specialize each application.

 

[david1697]

there are plenty of professional jobs available in canada. from experience, it's pretty unrealistic to think someone will be able to get high level, high paying jobs right off the bat as a new comer. getting a job in canada is the same as geting a job in the us. it involves finding a way to market yourself to prospective employers and showing them what makes you the best choice for the role. it is also about networking, which is quite diffifcult to do if you are not physically where you want to be working. any newcomer needs to realize that it may take some lower level jobs to get a foot in the door at a good company. if it takes an average canadian (in ontario) 6-8 months to get a job straight out of college or after unemployment, how can a foreign immigrant expect it to take any less time to get a fulltime high paying job? if you and your wife want to work in Canada then you need to MOVE to canada and accept the fact that your US experince is not going to give you all the credit you think it will. There are slight differences in the way canadian companies do things, and there is slight differences the language used in each industry. just because you have legal experience in the us, it certainly doesn't mean you would qualify for an equal job in canada. there are different laws, policies, proceedures and language used in everyday business. while these are slight differences, they actually matter a lot when a recruiter doesn't see any canadian experience or references in an application.

personally, i was able to leverage my relationship with a company that has offices in us and canada to get my first part time job. i just secured a second job with more hours and higher pay because of my affiliation with a settlement agency. i hold a bachelor and master degree, and over 10 years of professional experience in multiple industries. getting a job after landing needs to be seen as a stepping stone to a desired career. really, the only people who can get full time professional jobs that pay well right off the bat (beside sales people), need to either hold a specific canadian license (which takes time and money) or have a super specific skill that many other people don't have... even then it's going to take time. employers don't want jacks of all trades that can do anything. they need and look for people who fill specific needs. the responsiblity of the jobseeker is to show how they fit THAT specific need. until that is done, results will be unsucessful. also, not all employers care about how much higher education a person has. i actually take my master degree off my resume because it can work against me when applying for lower level jobs. it can scare recruiters away for many reason out of my control, so i choose to market myself accordingly.

i think your outlook on what it takes to get a job is highly dilusional. very few people actually get a job just by lobbing 100s of resumes into the black hole that is online recruiting, no matter if you are in the us or canada. the same resume isn't going to work for a 100 different jobs. sending standard resumes and cover letters don't work anymore. they need to be specific to the specific company and role. these days, there's very little success when the internet is the only source of finding a job and the applicant isn't taking care to specialize each application.

rhcohen2014,

Unfortunately, what I stated above is true, based on facts and our common (with my spouse) experience of looking for a job in Canada.

Me and my spouse have sent hundreds of resumes to employers all over Canada (mostly Ontario), and haven't received a single invitation to an interview.

You may not know this, but there were rather large number of job applications where we wrote custom cover letters , along with adjusted resumes (this particularly applies to my spouse, who is not only much more diligent in her job application process than me, but also better qualified than myself, having received education from one of the top tier colleges in her filed in the US). Neither of us received anything other than canned replies, such as "We will let you know if you match our requirements" and "This position was filled" (sometimes "...filled by internal candidate").

It's the reality. Not something I made up.

I am not a licensed attorney (never claimed I was), so I do not expect a "High Paying" job right off the bat, but I am also not open to flip burgers or work as a sales clerk in a grocery store for a minimum wage. Why would anyone move from US to Canada to do that?

My outlook is not delusional at all: this is exactly what it took to get jobs in US prior to 2009 (it still works here, but takes a considerable effort compared to how it used to be).
From what I understand, the similar process of finding and landing a job was in place in Canada just a few years ago.
And that's how it should work in any stable,healthy job market.

In Canada today, as far as I can see, it doesn't work at all. Mainly because you have 500 applicants for each advertised vacancy, and competition for job is similar to (for lack of better comparison) a competition of sperms to meet the egg.

 

[rhcohen2014]

You may not know this, but there were rather large number of job applications where we wrote custom cover letters , along with adjusted resumes (this particularly applies to my spouse, who is not only much more diligent in her job application process than me, but also better qualified than myself, having received education from one of the top tier colleges in her filed in the US). Neither of us received anything other than canned replies, such as "We will let you know if you match our requirements" and "This position was filled" (sometimes "...filled by internal candidate").

you seem to miss the point that only applying for jobs through the internet is not going to result in a successful job search, and knowing what it takes to research a company and target a resume/coverletter specific to a job ad, i challenge the fact that 100s of resumes are being sent out AND customized correctly. if this is really true, then your wife would be doing nothing else day and night besides sitting at her computer and writing coverletters and resumes. I can't imagine she is spending 24 hours a day jobsearching if she is currently employed and has a family to take care of. if she's not employed, then what's stopping her from going to canada and sending out 100s of resumes from there? at least if she was in canada, she would have the flexiblity to meet people in person and start building a network.

the fact that you seem to rely on applying for jobs through the recruiting black hole, and don't seem to put effort into other avenues of job search techniques (based on the information you share multiple times), is probably why there is no response other than the canned emails spit out by applicant tracking systems (aka... not a human being!).

also, there are plenty of other entry level jobs than flipping burgers or working as a cashier. and even if there weren't, so what? you have to start somewhere, and some entry level jobs can actually help achieve a goal and get a person to the position they wish to have. again canadian employers can care less about high priced US education on someone's resume. what they care about is how that education compliments the role and how the person fits the mold they are looking to fill, and it's the job seeker's responsibility to connect the dots and tell the employer exactly that!

it is a very odd and rare occassion someone can actually find a job in canada from outside of canada without having some specific quality that an employer would move mountains to recruit for. so if the plan is to continue doing what's being done and only rely on the internet for job searching, there will be a lot of disappointment down the road, and canada will seem more unattainable every day.

 

[david1697]

you seem to miss the point that only applying for jobs through the internet is not going to result in a successful job search, and knowing what it takes to research a company and target a resume/coverletter specific to a job ad, i challenge the fact that 100s of resumes are being sent out AND customized correctly. if this is really true, then your wife would be doing nothing else day and night besides sitting at her computer and writing coverletters and resumes. I can't imagine she is spending 24 hours a day jobsearching if she is currently employed and has a family to take care of. if she's not employed, then what's stopping her from going to canada and sending out 100s of resumes from there? at least if she was in canada, she would have the flexiblity to meet people in person and start building a network.

the fact that you seem to rely on applying for jobs through the recruiting black hole, and don't seem to put effort into other avenues of job search techniques (based on the information you share multiple times), is probably why there is no response other than the canned emails spit out by applicant tracking systems (aka... not a human being!).

also, there are plenty of other entry level jobs than flipping burgers or working as a cashier. and even if there weren't, so what? you have to start somewhere, and some entry level jobs can actually help achieve a goal and get a person to the position they wish to have. again canadian employers can care less about high priced US education on someone's resume. what they care about is how that education compliments the role and how the person fits the mold they are looking to fill, and it's the job seeker's responsibility to connect the dots and tell the employer exactly that!

it is a very odd and rare occassion someone can actually find a job in canada from outside of canada without having some specific quality that an employer would move mountains to recruit for. so if the plan is to continue doing what's being done and only rely on the internet for job searching, there will be a lot of disappointment down the road, and canada will seem more unattainable every day.

rhcohen2014,

With all due respect let me note that I sense that your responses are emotionally driven and assumptions fill in the gaps where you are not aware of the particulars.

Some clarifications are in order.

#1. My spouse didn't start applying for jobs yesterday. It's been more than a year since we landed, and even if she submitted as few as one resume per working day she could have already submitted more than 200 by now. But she doesn't send one resume every day. She spends time to first carefully search and filter jobs she wants to apply for, and then she actually edits or re-writes her cover letter and attaches her resume. It does not take super human prowess to find and apply for a few jobs per day, few days a week, every week of the year. And if you keep doing it systematically by the end of the first year you will have sent more than 500 resumes.

As to me, knowing that this is a proverbial 'sperm competition for an egg', I sometimes just create one general template resume for one specific position (for example: immigration legal assistant), and I send as many resumes as I can, without doing an individualized adjustment on every single job application.

I would believe that my approach is at fault if my spouses had worked. Since neither does, I know that it's not my approach which is faulty. there just aren't enough jobs in Canada to hire the people who must be applying at highly disproportionate to vacancies ratio.

In any event,I have explained to you above how is it possible that my wife indeed sent 100's of resumes which are customized correctly.

#2. She is employed full time so she can't just take indefinite vacation to go and give out her resume like a flier to by-walkers. Even if she was unemployed, how would you expect someone to do that?

#3. What effort should I put there? What exactly is an 'effort'? Please share your valuable advise, if you have any.
What exactly should we do to get an interview for a job?

#4. FYI, I apply to BOTH entry level and mid level jobs (and so does my spouse) , and no one replies with anything other than canned 'don't bother us again, We will let you know if we need you.'

#5. Lately, I put Canadian (Toronto, ON) mailing address on my resumes. My spouse was doing it all along!
As far as 'machines' are concerned, we are Canadians, looking for a job in Canada.
What else do we have to do to get a call from human to an interview?

 

[rahulk9]

you seem to miss the point that only applying for jobs through the internet is not going to result in a successful job search, and knowing what it takes to research a company and target a resume/coverletter specific to a job ad, i challenge the fact that 100s of resumes are being sent out AND customized correctly. if this is really true, then your wife would be doing nothing else day and night besides sitting at her computer and writing coverletters and resumes. I can't imagine she is spending 24 hours a day jobsearching if she is currently employed and has a family to take care of. if she's not employed, then what's stopping her from going to canada and sending out 100s of resumes from there? at least if she was in canada, she would have the flexiblity to meet people in person and start building a network.

the fact that you seem to rely on applying for jobs through the recruiting black hole, and don't seem to put effort into other avenues of job search techniques (based on the information you share multiple times), is probably why there is no response other than the canned emails spit out by applicant tracking systems (aka... not a human being!).

also, there are plenty of other entry level jobs than flipping burgers or working as a cashier. and even if there weren't, so what? you have to start somewhere, and some entry level jobs can actually help achieve a goal and get a person to the position they wish to have. again canadian employers can care less about high priced US education on someone's resume. what they care about is how that education compliments the role and how the person fits the mold they are looking to fill, and it's the job seeker's responsibility to connect the dots and tell the employer exactly that!

it is a very odd and rare occassion someone can actually find a job in canada from outside of canada without having some specific quality that an employer would move mountains to recruit for. so if the plan is to continue doing what's being done and only rely on the internet for job searching, there will be a lot of disappointment down the road, and canada will seem more unattainable every day.

I agree with you. One thing I have realised is that you have to be in Canada to score a job. I had applied in 8 organisations and got response from 3. But they wanted me to be available for interview in person and mind you these were for white collar jobs. Because my PR will take more than six months to process, no employer is willing to wait for that long.
Recession has its negative impact but don't forget that Canada is backdoor to US as well. No one is stopping you to cross the border and look for work.

 

[ht711]

Hi! Anybody any idea about Windsor, ON. How's the place and job prospects (Survival ones i am talking about) as i've noticed cheap housing. So please shed some light over it.

@aashay, buddy i want to give a last try and give myself time at least once more, i am not bringing my family to Canada until i settled down that's for sure and i can easily get my job back in my home country as i work for US Health System in India. As i have got the PR, so i wanna give it a last try that's the only reason i wanna go.

 

[jazibkg]

If you see % of immigrants...most of em (not all) doing flipping jobs or something like that, salute and respect for them, if hubby and wife working (survival jobs), they can manage expenses and live their life. Vancouver is saturated too and above all you have to start paying 60-75$ for health insurance each month for one person as it's not free (correct me if i am wrong). Lot of unions there. Drugs and gangs and above all the time raining in the winters (no snow but rain). You can't even imagine to buy a house. But gotta start from zero so go there where jobs are. Alberta/Sask are the places to go (I am talking about survival jobs). Toronto has too many immigrants and too many students. one job 500 resumes, so you need good referrals that's what i heard. One has to study there, employers don't recognize international experience and education ...but very fewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww are lucky who get jobs in their field, else it's......

I grew up in Karachi, Pakistan. Have also lived in London, England. Rougher places with way rougher neighborhoods. Vancouver gangs and drugs are like high school gangs for me in that regard. Lots of unions in Alberta too though.

Stuff like that is pretty irrelevant to me to be honest. Yes, agreed...Vancouver is saturated too (maybe all large cities are?), but not Toronto levels. Not everyone makes it though, even with a top degree from University of Toronto I see my friends and cousins struggling to find good jobs, some of them make it, some of them don't. Employers hardly recognize international experience anywhere in Canada, unless your hiring manager has spent time or understands the country where your work experience comes from. Yes, need to pay for health insurance too (but lower GST)! Well rains and +7 degrees centigrade in February is as good as a weather you can get in Canada - something I won't complain about. Yes, can't actually buy a house (can imagine though). Good referrals are needed everywhere in Canada (or elsewhere in the world).

 

[aashay12]

ht711, hey man....i feel you...give it a shot.....u got nothing to lose
being single will help than bringing a family....so you can travel all around...if needed
I am so sick of h1b visa and green card process...but atleast i have a job....theres no need to
worry about that, plenty of work is here....and good money.....
The PR card does not motivate me to come to Canada, a job will.
By reading everyday about jobs in Canada or on this forum, i make my decision more firm to not come to Canada.
No money big problem, no green card no problem.
Money/opprtuinity motivates me.....nothing else ever will.
I think toronto might not be the best spot to land, but i had no choice.
going to other cities and looking for jobs may make a difference, i guess.
i wish you all the best, i hope with ur experience, you will find something better in healthcare.

 

[david1697]

Doesn't take a genius to figure: there are no jobs in Canada.

If you must be connected to get a job(and if there are absolutely no alternatives to that route), then it's no different from any third world country. Even in the worst , plagued by terrible mismanagement economies of Africa or in Taliban governed tribal areas of Afghanistan you will get a 'job' if you know the right people or connected to some warlord All you have to do is network

 

[aashay12]

network is right, but to do that, u have to leave everything and come to Canada, meaning leaving the current job in US.
That does not sound right of leaving everything...and coming there....to network and then looking for job....
David, i am not sure what ur situation is in Canada regarding the job, but i can figure it out that, job are tough to get
I thank this forum a lot, to open my eyes....

 

[david1697]

network is right, but to do that, u have to leave everything and come to Canada, meaning leaving the current job in US.
That does not sound right of leaving everything...and coming there....to network and then looking for job....
David, i am not sure what ur situation is in Canada regarding the job, but i can figure it out that, job are tough to get
I thank this forum a lot, to open my eyes....

I am currently in US. If you are in US you know how economy here sags, how actually terrible it is: we have lost 15 million jobs since 2000. All those people who lived where those jobs used to be have migrated to large metropolitan areas/cities where they imagine 'jobs are'.
In certain sense they are right, large metropolitan areas are almost ONLY places where the jobs still created and are. But when you have disproportionately large number of desperate job seekers looking for a job, and when you have 200-300 resumes submitted per job you get an effect of what I call a 'sperm competition to reach the egg'.
But, as bad as things are in US now, at least , if you tediously and consistently send out hundreds of resumes you will at some point) get a call for an interview and eventually land a job.

Not so in Canada. Me and my spouse have been trying persistently and have sent hundreds of resumes applying for jobs all over Ontario.
We have not received anything except the canned responses, basically advising us that they found another candidate or advising they will let us know if they are interested.

It's unfortunate, but true. Getting a job in Canada is like winning a jackpot. You may as well spend your time and efforts buying lottery tickets at convenience store, instead of writing cover letters and resumes.
I can't fathom why such a great influx of immigrants , why so many PR's are accepted when existing ones can't get a job?
We are even threatened with ultimate loss of our PR status if we don't move and stay 2 out of 5 years in Canada.

Ok, let's say immigrants are misinformed and come to shores as moths come to light at night, but why this trend is perpetuated?

The only reason I can think of is that this current state of unemployment and underemployment has specific rationale, which is to drive down the labor cost. Ergo deliberate increase of workforce when jobs , for all practical purposes, are non-existent

Too bad for us, who are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[jazibkg]

Have you tried applying to jobs in provinces other than Ontario?

Also, not having a local callback number is a no-no in most instances (from employer's point of view).

I can partly agree with your viewpoints here, why exactly is the labour market being saturated, what are the political motives here?

 

[david1697]

Have you tried applying to jobs in provinces other than Ontario?

Also, not having a local callback number is a no-no in most instances (from employer's point of view).

I can partly agree with your viewpoints here, why exactly is the labour market being saturated, what are the political motives here?

Mostly sent to Ontario. But not only Ontario.

Lately I put Canadian (Toronto, ON) mailing address on resumes, and callback shouldn't be problem because I am in US. US-Canada network is such that most carriers cover both territories for free - for example, you can use Google VOIP and call from/to US/Canada absolutely free; besides, the sequence of numbers dialed is the same for both countries. In US someone seeing your number on resume wouldn't even know you were in Canada, they would think you have an area code from another state in US. We have lots of people in California with New york area codes , and vice versa (people move across states, but keep their mobile carrier phone numbers).

I don't know why the labor market is being over saturated, may be because no body really cares. But in case it's done for a reason, I can't think of any reason other than bringing the cost of the labor down. We have the same or similar process going on in US.

I also think as long as the percentage of unemployed/underemployed is kept within certain range those who are affected can be marginalized, so it doesn't even seem to be a problem while profitability is increased (in essence, those who are employed are still super-majority and can always tell that it's our fault we can't get a job, since they could).

 

[ht711]

Any clue about windsor, ON. I've heard about cheap rentals but jobs????