Choosing visa office

[toby]

In our case, we had the choice between Hong Kong and Beijing. We chose Hong Kong it is much closer if we should have to attend an interview.

Our application was sent to Hong Kong from CIC Mississauga on November 18 -- but when I check the status on the CIC website, I see only "not available", indicating that Hong Kong either has not received the application yet, or has not started processing it.

I now wish we had chosen Beijing, because -- now that I belatedly look at the processing times in each office -- Beijing is months faster. WHy should this be? Could it be because Beijng says "no" more than Hong kong, and "no" take s less time? Is there any way to find out the ratio of positive to negative decisions?

And can we change from Hong Kong to Beijing at this late stage?

Thanks.

 

[Karlshammar]

It hasn't even been two weeks since they sent the application to Hong Kong, so don't worry about its status yet.

I know that applications can be transferred, but I don't know how or for what cause. My immigration lawyer said she had to have a client's application transferred once, and she said she would never do that again, because it took many months for it to travel with diplomatic pouch from the original post to the new one. I don't have more details than that, I'm afraid.

 

[toby]

Thanks.

By the way, Karlshammer; you seem quite knowledgable about the visa process. What led you to hire an immigration consultant?

Was there any time when you doubted your consultant's advice? If so, did you defer to her, or did you take your own counsel?

The reason I ask is that I had conflicts with my consultant, and eventually had to fire him. I found that the country-specific instructions favoured my approach and not his, and on several other disagreements my instinct matched the approach of several people in this forum -- who got their visas.

So, I am led to question the usefuless of consultants. Maybe the good ones are useful, but there seems to be no good way to separate the wheat from the chaff in advance, only by hard experience.

 

[mitamata]

I think trying to get it transferred now would only add delays and, with as "smoothly" as things go with CIC, I wouldn't be surprised if the app got misplaced somewhere for a couple of months. I'd leave it be if I were you.

ECAS is more often than not not up-to-date. So I wouldn't assume something hasn't happened yet just because it's not there. Different offices treat it differently - some for example put it in ECAS right away, others wait for months before doing that. And even if it's on ECAS, it doesn't mean there's work being done on it - seems sometimes they just note that they received it but it takes a while before they actually get to it.

And, as Karlshammar said, it's only been two weeks. It pretty much always takes at least 2 weeks, so this isn't surprising.

Hard to say why the timelines are different. Partly because some visa offices have more resources than others, some have a heavier load than others and the processes in different countries are different - for example, for some the background check is done much faster than for others.

 

[toby]

It's funny how two weeks can seem like two months when you're waiting for something important like a visa for a loved one.

Thanks for the calming advice.

 

[ariell]

No, you did NOT have the choice to choose between Hong Kong and Beijing. (I believe you already asked this BTW and I answered it with the same information that I'll be giving you now.)

This is a quote from the Beijing visa office website:

Hong Kong is responsible for processing applicants being sponsored in the Family Class who reside in the following regions of South China:

* Fujian Province
* Guangdong Province
* Guangxi Autonomous Region (Guangxi Zhuangzu Zizhiqu)
* Hainan Province
* Hong Kong Special Administrative Region
* Macau Special Administrative Region

Applicants residing in other parts of the PRC and in Mongolia will be processed at the Canadian Embassy, Beijing.

So clearly only applicants that live in the above provinces are processed in HK. All others are processed in Beijing. You don't get to choose. If you sent it to the wrong office, then my guess is that if you are lucky they will forward it to the right visa office for you. Otherwise, they will mail it back to you and you will have to send it to the right office yourself.

 

[Karlshammar]

Thanks, toby!

Well, I hired an immigration laywer, not an immigration consultant. Requirement to become a consultant: a course of about one semester, a test, payment of a fee. Requirement to become a lawyer: fully complete law school, fulfill the articling requirements (which alone is about twice the length of the immigration practitioner course), then complete application to and be called to the bar.

I'm not dissing immigration consultants, and I am sure there are really good ones out there, but with the bare-bones education they get it would take a very dedicated person with extraordinary intelligence to develop, over time, the amount of professionalism and knowledge that lawyers have as soon as they're allowed to start work. So while it is possible to find an amazing consultant, I think your odds are better when going with a lawyer.

As for my decision to hire a lawyer, I was less informed back then than I am now, which was part of my decision. Another important factor was that I wanted to make sure that I made no mistakes, whether through lack of knowledge or oversight, that would cause troubles or delay. Most of us, if fortunate, will only ever go through this process once in our life and as humans we are far from perfect.

Lawyers are not perfect either. But an experienced one has done this hundreds of times, knows what to look for, and is likely to catch all the little errors that applicants make.

The reason I picked my particular lawyer was because she fulfilled two criteria that I had set in selecting a lawyer: lots of solid experience, for obvious reasons, and willing to charge me a flat-rate rather than by the hour, so there would be no incentive for her to prolong the process in any way.

My lawyer charged a flat-rate, has over 10 years of experience, and even served on a body of the IRB for 3 years.

I never doubted her advice. When we first started with the application there were things I thought I knew were she corrected me, and she always turned out to be right.

Thanks.

By the way, Karlshammer; you seem quite knowledgable about the visa process. What led you to hire an immigration consultant?

Was there any time when you doubted your consultant's advice? If so, did you defer to her, or did you take your own counsel?

The reason I ask is that I had conflicts with my consultant, and eventually had to fire him. I found that the country-specific instructions favoured my approach and not his, and on several other disagreements my instinct matched the approach of several people in this forum -- who got their visas.

So, I am led to question the usefuless of consultants. Maybe the good ones are useful, but there seems to be no good way to separate the wheat from the chaff in advance, only by hard experience.

 

[ariell]

Karlshammar,

I find your suggestion that consultants receive a 'bare bones' eduction incredibly insulting to the many well-qualified immigration consultants out there. Of course there are some misguided consultants but there are just as many greedy, ill-informed lawyers out there. This board is testament to that fact -- just stick around long enough and you will see how many people have been completely misinformed by their lawyers and are therefore on this board trying to get information that their lawyer should know. Have a law degree is no guarantee of anything.

 

[Karlshammar]

You must have read someone else's post, because that is not the point I was making. In fact, I specifically said there are bound to be great consultants out there. I do agree that there are bound to be horrible lawyers as well.

I simply said your odds are better with a lawyer than a consultant, and I do stand by that opinion, and believe it is entirely true.

Perhaps I used the wrong words when saying it was bare-bones; I apologize for that. Let me re-phrase: consultants receive a more narrow and limited education than lawyers, and one that does not cover much of the underlying legal principles that underlie all law, including immigration law.

Is this post more to your liking?

 

[toby]

I don't think your clarification will douse the flames, Karlshammer. Best to cut and run in these situations.

You are right that it takes longer to become a lawyer than an immigration consultant, but lawyers study everything from immigration to tort law, whereas an immigeration consultant studies only immigration -- intensely -- and it is that knowledge that I want/need when applying for a visa.

As for the intelligence required to become a lawyer, I disagree that lawyers' IQs are as high as you imply. It used to be said in my university that the C students went into Law School because they couldn't make it into grad school. From what I saw personally, the saying was largely valid.

Ariell: Look at IMM0008 Generic, just below "Language Preferred", and you will see a box allowing one to choose the visa office one prefers. Of course this does not mean that Mississauga will necessarily be bound by the choise, but YES, there is a choice.

I don't know where you got the idea that I sent the application to Hong Kong; it wasn't from my post. I followed instructions and sent the entire package (sponsorship and visa applications) to CIC in Mississauga, and they sent it on to Hong Kong.

 

[ariell]

Toby,

On IMM008, you can choose either the visa office for your country of nationality or the visa office of the country in which you are residing, provided that you have been lawfully admitted to that country for at least one year. You can't just choose ANY visa office. China is a bit different because there are 2 visa offices that process PR applications but you still have to choose the one responsible for your area. You don't just get to choose whichever one you want, such as the one that has the shorter processing time or the one closest to you etc.

Sorry, I wrote my initial post quickly. When I said 'if you sent it to the wrong office....', I should have said 'if you chose the wrong visa office....'

 

[toby]

I am still confused on this point about choosing Visa Offices, Ariell.

IMM0008 Generic asks the visa applicant to indicate the “Visa Office requested for the process of your application”. The form does not say “indicate the visa office designated for your country”, or anything similar; it says the applicant may request.

I took this question to mean that IF there are several visa offices in the country (as there are in the USA and China), that the applicant could choose the most convenient office. Of course, if there’s only one visa office in the applicant’s country, s/he has a choice of only one visa office, i.e. no choice at all.

In the case of China, until very recently it was virtually impossible – or at least very impractical -- for a Chinese mainlander to get a visa to go to Hong Kong (e.g. for an interview), adding weight to my interpretation that s/he could select Beijing for processing. But on re-reading the Beijing website, I see that only Hong Kong serves Guangdong, where we reside. I wonder what would have heppened had my sife been called to an interview that she could not attend for lack of a visa to Hong Kong? Fortunately now the visas are more easily obtainable.


If I understand you correctly, you are saying that this question applies only to an applicant who has resided in a non-birth-country for a year more, and now must select a visa office either in the birth country or the residence country. Is this correct?

If so, where do you get that information, please? I cannot find it in the instructions for IMM0008 Generic, nor in the China-specific instructions.

 

[ariell]

Toby,

The info. is on page 19 of the Sponsor's Guide:

"Under Canadian immigration legislation, an application for a permanent resident visa must
be made at the visa office responsible for:
• the country where the applicant is living, if the applicant has been lawfully admitted to
that country for a period of at least one year, or
• the applicant’s country of nationality, or
• the applicant’s country of habitual residence, if the applicant is stateless and has legal
status in that country.

The person you are sponsoring will have to provide evidence of his or her status in the country
where he or she is living. Should that status change or expire before the visa office has completed
the processing of the application, processing of the application will be completed in the office
where it was submitted unless circumstances dictate otherwise."


It doesn't mean you have to have been living somewhere already for 1 year in order to apply through that visa office. It just means that you have to have been legally admitted for 1 year. So if, for example you were a German citizen and had at least a 1 year work visa for the UK, you could apply through the London office. The choice of visa office would also be relevant for applicants who do not have a visa office in their country so they would need to know and list the visa office responsible for applicants from their country.

I am surprised that it doesn't say anything in the country specific instructions for China. But you have to go on the CIC website to find the info. about each office which is where I got the quote about HK vs. Beijing office. That certainly says to me that you don't get to choose -- they choose for you based on where in China you're located.

As for the US, Buffalo is the only office that processes PR applications. The other offices process FSW, tourist or student visas. You can however, choose the location of your interview in the US, should you need one.

 

[Karlshammar]

The Buffalo office may also transfer the file to a more local office, depending on God knows what factors.

As for the US, Buffalo is the only office that processes PR applications. The other offices process FSW, tourist or student visas. You can however, choose the location of your interview in the US, should you need one.

 

[toby]

Thanks for the education. I never thought to look in the Sponsor's instructions.

I can't but help thinking this whole process could be made a lot simpler and clearer. Witness (in my effort to also apply for a tourist visa) my stumbling by pure good luck upon two extra forms in the China-specific part of the Temporary Visa application. These forms exist only for Beijing, nowhere else. Had I not chanced to read an illustration of how to complete certain forms in the Beijing website (not everyone will read an illustration where they feel comfortable with the forms and don't think they need help), I would not have seen the forms at all. They are not mentioned un any document checklist. And so my application would have been missing these forms, and would be incomplete.

But no point in complaining. I pointed this out to Beijing, and got a form letter back. They're convinced they have done the best job they can.