Can Kids Go To School ?

[PMM]

Hi

Hi PMM,

I think I understand the policy here, but please correct me if I am wrong.

Because my wife has retroactive Canadian citizenship to her date of birth, it means that she can (under the old rules) now pass that citizenship on to her kids, even though they are 2nd generation born out of Canada, due to the fact that they were born BEFORE April 17th 2009.

However, if she had another child born today, that child would have to be sposored due to being born AFTER April 17th 2009?

If I understand it correctly, Prior to this new Bill C-37, any person who had Canadian citizenship at the time of birth of their children could automatically pass it to their child even if they were 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th generation born out of Canada. That is the reason this Bill has been introduced, to limit it from April 2009 to 1st generation only.

Have I grasped this correctly.

The CIC website isn't very clear, and it was only after reading the reason for them bringing in the new BIll that I understood things - I think :

We tried to call the London Embassy to clarify, but apparently everything has to be done through e-mail these days

Thanks for all your elp and advice.

Steve

Your correct and have grasped the essential elements of C-37, it is a shame that some of the offices in London haven't

PMM

 

[lasbagman]

Steve

If your wife was born in the USA and her mother registered her birth abroad And has her rba certificate, she was Canadian before B C37 and your children born before 17 April 2009 ARE Canadians . My wife and I were born in the USA to Canadian Fathers and American Mothers. Since our families did not register our births abroad with the Canadian Consulate, we never had Canadian citizenship. We did not know we had until 2004 to register our births and then we would have been Canadians before B C37 and our Daughter would then be classified as 2nd Generation Canadian born abroad. Now B C37 made us Canadians but our daughter is considered 2nd generation. I spoke to CIC this morning and the Agent said since we did not have our citizenship before B C37 came in to force, Our daughter did not have Canadian parents. We are going to re-locate to Toronto and sponsor her as a PR. Then apply for Canadian Citizenship for her. B C37 gave as well as took away citizenship and you really have to read the CIC website or talk to some one there.

 

[shmuhahaha]

Just in case, any one who is applying for citizenship certificate, these are my kids application timeline in reverse chronological order

Citizenship Certificate received through mail - Jan 11, 2010
Citizenship Certificate Sent to Detroit Consulate - December 18, 2009
Application Completed - December 18, 2009
IN process - December 1, 2009
Acknowledgement sent on Nov 4 2009
Application Checked for Payment- around Nov 3, 2009
Application Received at Processing office - June 11, 2009
Application Submitted at Detroit Consulate - May 28, 2009

 

[Icky Sloman]

Steve

If your wife was born in the USA and her mother registered her birth abroad And has her rba certificate, she was Canadian before B C37 and your children born before 17 April 2009 ARE Canadians . My wife and I were born in the USA to Canadian Fathers and American Mothers. Since our families did not register our births abroad with the Canadian Consulate, we never had Canadian citizenship. We did not know we had until 2004 to register our births and then we would have been Canadians before B C37 and our Daughter would then be classified as 2nd Generation Canadian born abroad. Now B C37 made us Canadians but our daughter is considered 2nd generation. I spoke to CIC this morning and the Agent said since we did not have our citizenship before B C37 came in to force, Our daughter did not have Canadian parents. We are going to re-locate to Toronto and sponsor her as a PR. Then apply for Canadian Citizenship for her. B C37 gave as well as took away citizenship and you really have to read the CIC website or talk to some one there.

I think it all depends on what they mean by citizenship being retroactive to your date of birth.

If you answer the questions at cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/index.asp from your childs perspective, for me the grey area comes when it questions:

"At least one of my Canadian parents was either born in Canada or granted Canadian citizenship before I was born".

Now prior to bill C-37 the answer would be a definate No (as my wife didn't get her citizenship until 2005 and the children were born before this date,)

BUT, and this is the where the shades of grey come into it,

as bill C-37 has made her citizenship retroactive to her date of birth, then technically by default, YES she did have canadian citizenship at the time of her childs birth.

If you answer YES to the question, the CIC website says that they (the children born prior to 16 april 2009) ARE eligable for Canadian Citizenship.

So, as I see it, Bill C-37 has claimed that my wife can consider herself a canadian citizen from birth, which means she was a Canadian citizen when her children were born (prior to April 17th 2009) and therefore her children are Canadian citizens by decent.

The agent said that you did not have citizenship prior to bill C-37 and therefore your child can not be a canadian citizen, BUT C-37 has effectively given you canadian citizebship from birth, and so anything that was prior to the bill is now irrelevent. According to their own Bill (C-37) you have been a canadian citizen all your life and so must have been a canadian citizen when your child was born.

Any thoughts???

 

[PMM]

Hi

I think it all depends on what they mean by citizenship being retroactive to your date of birth.

If you answer the questions at cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/rules/index.asp from your childs perspective, for me the grey area comes when it questions:

"At least one of my Canadian parents was either born in Canada or granted Canadian citizenship before I was born".

Now prior to bill C-37 the answer would be a definate No (as my wife didn't get her citizenship until 2005 and the children were born before this date,)

BUT, and this is the where the shades of grey come into it,

as bill C-37 has made her citizenship retroactive to her date of birth, then technically by default, YES she did have canadian citizenship at the time of her childs birth.

If you answer YES to the question, the CIC website says that they (the children born prior to 16 april 2009) ARE eligable for Canadian Citizenship.

So, as I see it, Bill C-37 has claimed that my wife can consider herself a canadian citizen from birth, which means she was a Canadian citizen when her children were born (prior to April 17th 2009) and therefore her children are Canadian citizens by decent.

The agent said that you did not have citizenship prior to bill C-37 and therefore your child can not be a canadian citizen, BUT C-37 has effectively given you canadian citizebship from birth, and so anything that was prior to the bill is now irrelevent. According to their own Bill (C-37) you have been a canadian citizen all your life and so must have been a canadian citizen when your child was born.

Any thoughts???

Yes, that is what I tried to explain, but if a poster gets bad information from a CIC/CHC office what can you do.

PMM

 

[lasbagman]

That is exactly how I thought, when I read the Bc37 rules, But the CIC have diffrent views, check out The Lost Canadian website. This issue has been brought up . The rules are very confusing , I just find it weird that my daughter has 2 Canadian parents and she has to be a PR especially since they said we are Canadians from birth.

 

[Icky Sloman]

Well, my wife called the Canadian Immigration help line in Canada today, and was told in no uncertain terms that the children are NOT entitled to citizenship through descent, and MUST BE sposored.

Straight from the horses mouth as they say, but NOT what I wanted to hear. Back to square one I guess

 

[PMM]

Hi

quote author=Icky Sloman link=topic=32426.msg205864#msg205864 date=1264094360]
Well, my wife called the Canadian Immigration help line in Canada today, and was told in no uncertain terms that the children are NOT entitled to citizenship through descent, and MUST BE sposored.

Straight from the horses mouth as they say, but NOT what I wanted to hear. Back to square one I guess
[/quote]

Don't forget you talked to a CR3 clerk, not an Immigration Officer. If it is an unusual question and not in their set of standard responses, they have a tendency to guess.

PMM

 

[Icky Sloman]

OK PMM, here's a question for you.

Supposing we just decide to chance our luck and my wife fills in the forms to get proof of canadian citizenship certificates for our kids.

She puts down under the parents part of the form that she obtained her Canadian citizenship by descent.

We pay the $75 each for the applications and send them off.

How long is it before we know if they are going to process the application or reject it, and do we receive any paperwork that we can then use to get the passports.

I'm sure we can't just apply for passports as soon as the applications have been submitted, writing "applied for proof of Citizenship " in the column where it asks for the citizenship number, in case the applications for citizenship are refused.

We don't want to wait 14 months to be told NO on this application, and THEN have to look at sponsoring if this avenue were to fail.....

 

[PMM]

Hi

OK PMM, here's a question for you.

Supposing we just decide to chance our luck and my wife fills in the forms to get proof of canadian citizenship certificates for our kids.

She puts down under the parents part of the form that she obtained her Canadian citizenship by descent.

We pay the $75 each for the applications and send them off.

How long is it before we know if they are going to process the application or reject it, and do we receive any paperwork that we can then use to get the passports.

I'm sure we can't just apply for passports as soon as the applications have been submitted, writing "applied for proof of Citizenship " in the column where it asks for the citizenship number, in case the applications for citizenship are refused.

We don't want to wait 14 months to be told NO on this application, and THEN have to look at sponsoring if this avenue were to fail.....

1. You can apply for the CC passports as soon as you submit the proof of citizenship. That is evidence that you have applied, then 15 minutes later you apply for the passports.

PMM

 

[Icky Sloman]

Hi

1. You can apply for the CC passports as soon as you submit the proof of citizenship. That is evidence that you have applied, then 15 minutes later you apply for the passports.

PMM

Hi PMM,

Firstly, Thank you for your continued help on this subject...

What happens if they send us the passports, my wife moves over with the kids, and then after looking deeply into the application, they decide that the kids are not eligable for the CC Certificate. Won't that mean that my kids are now living illegally in Canada, because technically if they are refused the CC cert, then they shouldn't have got the passports.

Thanks again...

 

[PMM]

Hi

Hi PMM,

Firstly, Thank you for your continued help on this subject...

What happens if they send us the passports, my wife moves over with the kids, and then after looking deeply into the application, they decide that the kids are not eligable for the CC Certificate. Won't that mean that my kids are now living illegally in Canada, because technically if they are refused the CC cert, then they shouldn't have got the passports.

Thanks again...

Then you would just sponsor them.

PMM