Brutal Winter and a Jobless Immigrant family

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if the person facing some hard time then usually He/She blames on everything. I deeply sympathize your situation and I can understand How much difficulties you have faced and facing right now but I will say its not a solution to discuss all this stuff but to think that what you should do now? feasible solution is for you to send back your family to backhome and for you to move to different province i.e Albertra, saska, Manitoba. There are still good jobs there. I am not saying that you can have managerial job and you can earn a lot of money but you can have some mid level job and can earn good money. I am from Sask and I know some ppl here who are doing average jobs but they here living happy peaceful live. I don't know why ppl move to the provinces like Ontario. I been there for fun but I felt so much crowd and life pace was too fast. I am young and adaptive and have Masters degree from Canada but still I don't prefer to live the states like Ontario. So better for you my brother move from your province. Some of friends here gave the test of security and they got the job from the security company in one day only and they are earning almost $16/hr, all they have to do in job is to sit and there is no age limit on this job and you just have to invest $250 to pass the test but at least this job is far more better then labor kind of job which you highlighted. This is just an example to let you know that how people are living in small less crowded states.

And If I highlight the racism matter which you talked about. I am not agreed with you at all. I am a brown guy from Pakistan but I haven't face racism even one time. Canadians even all color people in Canada are so loving and friendly and they are so helpful and positive. All you have to be kind and honest with them in reply.

Thanks and sorry if any of my word hurt you.

 

[fkl]

Ok thanks for your reply. I am a C# / .Net developer. I have experience in writing high performance / trading type of stuff as well as modern web based portals and high security systems (I wrote an online system for UK Home Office).

I agree that my current experience will need a couple of years of Canadian experience to be valued correctly so I'm not expecting $100k straight up. But in about one to two year's time for sure.

Can you clarify little more about the what you said about contractual companies from US? Do you mean US companies hire people on contract in Canada too? If yes, how big / popular is that thing? I mean are there good number of such jobs in the market?

And in general how hard is it to find a decent programming job?

Thanks for your help!

You are most welcome. Search "Toronto" / Canada on the following thread (It is posted each month and i see about 10 or more postings here)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8980047

Generally speaking you apply and interview - compete against others for jobs. Canadian local universities are pretty good too in CS. So unless you are bringing in specialized experience not available here, you face good competition.

The contractual thing i mentioned is because i very routinely see US based companies opening up operations in Canada in cities like Toronto or Montreal and want people to work for them. They often do not offer permanent jobs, but rather contracts advertising the hourly rates i mentioned earlier. I have been contacted by recruiters / employer directly at least 5 times in the last one year though i am based in Montreal.

Canadians are some what biased towards local experience in general. But in our profession, one advantage is that most of the customers are US based. So a person having proven experience delivering working piece of software of the kind employers need, makes you stand apart.

Take this all with a grain of salt, because i don't have experience looking for first job inside Canada. I was recruited from overseas for a specialized area i have worked in for a good number of years which is hard to find. So this kind of situation is not common.

Having legal right to work in Canada for any one is very important (PR or open work permit).

Lastly, Vancouver or Ottawa are better markets for programmers compared to Toronto. Vancouver is far more expensive as well but pays well too and has all big name companies there. Ottawa is relatively cheaper with still very good salaries and a good market too.

 

[Jaxon911]

You are most welcome. Search "Toronto" / Canada on the following thread (It is posted each month and i see about 10 or more postings here)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8980047

Generally speaking you apply and interview - compete against others for jobs. Canadian local universities are pretty good too in CS. So unless you are bringing in specialized experience not available here, you face good competition.

The contractual thing i mentioned is because i very routinely see US based companies opening up operations in Canada in cities like Toronto or Montreal and want people to work for them. They often do not offer permanent jobs, but rather contracts advertising the hourly rates i mentioned earlier. I have been contacted by recruiters / employer directly at least 5 times in the last one year though i am based in Montreal.

Canadians are some what biased towards local experience in general. But in our profession, one advantage is that most of the customers are US based. So a person having proven experience delivering working piece of software of the kind employers need, makes you stand apart.

Take this all with a grain of salt, because i don't have experience looking for first job inside Canada. I was recruited from overseas for a specialized area i have worked in for a good number of years which is hard to find. So this kind of situation is not common.

Having legal right to work in Canada for any one is very important (PR or open work permit).

Lastly, Vancouver or Ottawa are better markets for programmers compared to Toronto. Vancouver is far more expensive as well but pays well too and has all big name companies there. Ottawa is relatively cheaper with still very good salaries and a good market too.

Thanks for all the info!

I've gone thru "finding first job" experience in the UK. It was certainly very hard. After numerous attempts I managed to land one interview, I was fortunate enough to grab it. Most of my friends have left the UK even after they had Tier 1 visa which enables them to work for any employer in the UK or even start their own business and get PR after spending 5 years in the country. UK also doesn't count non UK experience unless candidate also has / had UK experience to back it up.

My PR application is in the final stages, that's the reason I'm researching about Canada. I'm settled in a good job here in the UK and trying to figure out if it'd be worth moving to Canada and leave everything I've built in the UK behind!

 

[canadaforall]

Hi deerestlovelybear,

U r in Toronto that's why u r facing this sort of issue. I m IT guy i moved 2 yrs ago in Canada i just spend 2 weeks in Toronto then move Calgary. I easily got field related job. Still quite high chances over here to get job. Make a bold decision and move here.

Thanks,

Yes, friend i agree with you. I am in Calgary and when i arrive here i quickly look at things and changed my field. I did a short course and now i am working with Alberta Health Services like a health care Aide. I do not mind. I have made my hours and ready to upgrade to LPN in the health field

I have a Master's Degree in intercultural Communication and Administration, I have decided to put it under my suit case. But so long as i can have a job security in my present brand new field field, i do not mind. I have lived and worked in southern Region of Africa, China, Finland and then Canada. For all the countries i have named Canada is on the top, the reason being that you can change things if you are ready for change.

If you really need only a white collar job, then home would be the best place for you. I have my friends, they are planning to return in May this year. It is never to late to return. I know Many who came signed in saw the situation and returned home for good. Visas have expired and they prefer to stay home. All is your choice. Writing this is not helping in my opinion. Keep a positive mind and all will be fine.

Consider moving to another city. Canada is so big.

Canadaforall

 

[kateg]

I am not sure what country you are from, I was also told this by our immigration consultants, that Canada is full of jobs, they even shown me picture of happy families and "true story" of people getting job the first week they landed in Canada. Maybe that happened in 1990s? But for now Canada is very different.

I'm here on a study permit (with an employer who's trying to get me full time by sponsoring for P/R). It took me two weeks, rather than one (salary $85,000). I lost out on two opportunities because I could only work part time legally. If I had landed immigrant status, it would have taken me one week.

Most people aren't like that, but it is possible.

 

[jazibkg]

Thanks for all the info!

I've gone thru "finding first job" experience in the UK. It was certainly very hard. After numerous attempts I managed to land one interview, I was fortunate enough to grab it. Most of my friends have left the UK even after they had Tier 1 visa which enables them to work for any employer in the UK or even start their own business and get PR after spending 5 years in the country. UK also doesn't count non UK experience unless candidate also has / had UK experience to back it up.

My PR application is in the final stages, that's the reason I'm researching about Canada. I'm settled in a good job here in the UK and trying to figure out if it'd be worth moving to Canada and leave everything I've built in the UK behind!

I had to leave the UK because my Tier 1 PSW expired, where I was already working for a british bank but my salary level didn't meet the recently introduced salary minimum requirement for tier 2 general, but luckily I had Canadian PR before my Tier 1 expired so I had to leave the UK and could come to Canada.

I wouldn't ever recommend you to leave the UK for Canada (unless you already have arranged employment) if you have a good job there. The only reason I left was because my UK visa expired with no way to extend. There is pretty much nothing to do in Canada. But it depends on the profession too. I had to go through at least 10 interviews before I got a single offer! Jobs in Canada are pretty underpaid too. But if you can stay in the UK, please don't leave on a whim.

Life in the UK is fairly easy and without hassle. In Canada, even simple things are buried under mountains of red tape and kafkaesque levels of bureaucracy. Although sales taxes are fairly lower than VAT, they don't advertise the taxed prices leaving you confused when you get to the cash counter

Regards.

 

[praneet87]

BTW, can someone tell me if a strong hardcore programmer with 7+ years of experience in the UK and India can get a $100k job in Toronto?
And does anyone know about IT Contract rates? In the UK contracts pay fairly well, about £300 to £350 a day (about $550 to $600 in CAD) a day.

As a high frequency developer? yes easily. lol 100k? try 200k+ =

Another thing to note. It's not Canadian experience these people are looking for but first world experience. Its generally the language skills people are looking at. That is all. If you are from the motherland then I don't think you should have any issues. On top of that if you've been working for a global investment bank like Barclays or RBS then I guess it adds to your benefit.

 

[canadadreamming]

I am a care giver and while I am here was able to switch to practical nurse with LMIA easily. Canada has lots of jobs and the only problem with people complaining is they are too lazy. Or else people looking for wrong career in canada like finance or commerce. Each country has its own strength, in canada as long as you are in healthcare related you can get tons of jobs. And there are more jobs than can be filled in Alberta, don't know why people love to live in toronto or vancouver and suffer jobless when in Alberta as long as you got IELTS 3.0 and above and have high school diploma you are 100% sure to get at least 2 job offers within a week, at least $28/hr, that's what my exoerience was

 

[fkl]

Thanks for all the info!

I've gone thru "finding first job" experience in the UK. It was certainly very hard. After numerous attempts I managed to land one interview, I was fortunate enough to grab it. Most of my friends have left the UK even after they had Tier 1 visa which enables them to work for any employer in the UK or even start their own business and get PR after spending 5 years in the country. UK also doesn't count non UK experience unless candidate also has / had UK experience to back it up.

My PR application is in the final stages, that's the reason I'm researching about Canada. I'm settled in a good job here in the UK and trying to figure out if it'd be worth moving to Canada and leave everything I've built in the UK behind!

You are most welcome. That in general is a subjective question and would receive varied responses.

But some things i would want to point out. I qualified HSMP (during the times that it was active) easily but seeing the average outcome of the UK market in the following years (2006 on wards) and even with the successful cases, the salary outputs, i decided not to try it out and was pretty happy with my choice.

From all the friends who live there, benefits such as health care might be some what better than Canada, but UK is far more expensive and effectively doesn't let you live as comfortably as say Canada.

None of this is first hand impression for UK - but rather opinions of people who make pretty good living there. At least they are not able to save any thing for the long term.

Lastly i haven't heard of any one immigrating from Canada to UK or any where else - except may be US. But people from all over the world including UK immigrate here frequently so there must be some foundation underneath.

In my personal analysis, you could get good quality life AND SAVE MONEY after living comfortably (subjective to your definition of comfort and earnings) in the following order.

First - US, then Canada, then any where else.

I believe you can save money in Canada only second to the US without sacrificing quality living.

 

[polara69]

Very true. I have made the very same experience. I have no problems here whatsoever. This is not because I am a white Western European. This is because our culture is very similar, hence we do not have to adjust a lot. We are accustomed to life in the western world; the morals and work ethics are the same. So is our way of social interaction. Evidently this makes it easier for us to feel at home and bond with locals. I have to admit that I already spent part of my childhood and teenage years in Canada, since I went to school here - so yes, I don't have an accent and that helps a lot because people never assume I am not Canadian unless I tell them - but I personally don't know any immigrant from the western world who has been facing integration issues here. This is a matter of cultural similarities and differences and has nothing to do with racism.

Spot on!

 

[specialmary]

I am a care giver and while I am here was able to switch to practical nurse with LMIA easily. Canada has lots of jobs and the only problem with people complaining is they are too lazy. Or else people looking for wrong career in canada like finance or commerce. Each country has its own strength, in canada as long as you are in healthcare related you can get tons of jobs. And there are more jobs than can be filled in Alberta, don't know why people love to live in toronto or vancouver and suffer jobless when in Alberta as long as you got IELTS 3.0 and above and have high school diploma you are 100% sure to get at least 2 job offers within a week, at least $28/hr, that's what my exoerience was

You are just too arrogant. Whether you can land on a job in Canada depends on your field. Nursing, IT and accountants can get jobs easily. A friend of mine is an immigrant and she even got a Master degree in Canada in the field of health care policy. She needs to compete with local Canadians for job and she was jobless for over a year, despite her volunteering in a health care institute during her unemployed period. Many Canadian PhD also could not find a job and leave Canada for post-doc elsewhere.

Consider yourself lucky to have a job in Alberta.

 

[canadadreamming]

You are just too arrogant. Whether you can land on a job in Canada depends on your field. Nursing, IT and accountants can get jobs easily. A friend of mine is an immigrant and she even got a Master degree in Canada in the field of health care policy. She needs to compete with local Canadians for job and she was jobless for over a year, despite her volunteering in a health care institute during her unemployed period. Many Canadian PhD also could not find a job and leave Canada for post-doc elsewhere.

Consider yourself lucky to have a job in Alberta.

I've never seen any immigrant who could not find job in Alberta. Many people got multiple job offers on the first week they land in Calgary. It can be a bit more difficult for some other areas such as Finance or Business, but with a PhD and jobless one must question if you have some issue here. After all you need to find where the jobs are and applying as many as possible. I sent out 100 resumes and got 2 interviews but I can score 1 offer immediately. The key is, your skills need to match what employers need. And Canada have tons of jobs, just that you need to know where to go to. My friends went to Toronto and have problem finding jobs there but when they move to Calgary, they all have good jobs and good salary.

 

[seton]

Air ticket in Canada is 2, 3 times more expensive with same distant in US due to monopoly.

Actually that's not true (the cost is, but the reasons not). The primary reasons that airfare is cheaper in the US is due to a combination of tax structure and population density. The US gov't largely subsidizes air transportation through low/no airport taxes (including lack of property taxes and directly funding airports), and lower jet fuel taxes. On a related note, the US gov't is drowning in debt, so you take the good with the bad (both ways).

I sympathize with the original poster for his/her challenges settling. I do caution readers on this forum that due to the nature of anecdotal stories, they aren't necessarily representative of every immigrant's experience. I came to Canada 8 years ago and honestly had a very easy time settling. I've studied and been working in a series of very well paying jobs, own a house, and am enjoying my life in Canada. I'm not saying that your experience will be the same as mine, but consider that there are so many different factors that can affect your outcome, it is impossible to generalize every immigrant's experience. I've met more successful than struggling immigrants personally - that's just been my experience. I've done a couple speeches at a local immigration settlement organization for a friend that works there, and I see a lot of classic mistakes that immigrants make in their job search. Many times it is largely either due to challenges in communication (oral and written - poorly written resumés get overlooked), and not fully understanding or embracing the culture.

I recommend everyone do their research before deciding where to settle. For example, complaining about "Brutal Winters" hints at either inappropriate research into the city's climate or unrealistic expectations about where you would be going (or perhaps just choosing the wrong country to migrate to).

 

[CANCANADA]

Actually that's not true (the cost is, but the reasons not). The primary reasons that airfare is cheaper in the US is due to a combination of tax structure and population density. The US gov't largely subsidizes air transportation through low/no airport taxes (including lack of property taxes and directly funding airports), and lower jet fuel taxes. On a related note, the US gov't is drowning in debt, so you take the good with the bad (both ways).

I sympathize with the original poster for his/her challenges settling. I do caution readers on this forum that due to the nature of anecdotal stories, they aren't necessarily representative of every immigrant's experience. I came to Canada 8 years ago and honestly had a very easy time settling. I've studied and been working in a series of very well paying jobs, own a house, and am enjoying my life in Canada. I'm not saying that your experience will be the same as mine, but consider that there are so many different factors that can affect your outcome, it is impossible to generalize every immigrant's experience. I've met more successful than struggling immigrants personally - that's just been my experience. I've done a couple speeches at a local immigration settlement organization for a friend that works there, and I see a lot of classic mistakes that immigrants make in their job search. Many times it is largely either due to challenges in communication (oral and written - poorly written resumés get overlooked), and not fully understanding or embracing the culture.

I recommend everyone do their research before deciding where to settle. For example, complaining about "Brutal Winters" hints at either inappropriate research into the city's climate or unrealistic expectations about where you would be going (or perhaps just choosing the wrong country to migrate to).

I agree with you seton !

 

[jazibkg]

You are most welcome. That in general is a subjective question and would receive varied responses.

From all the friends who live there, benefits such as health care might be some what better than Canada, but UK is far more expensive and effectively doesn't let you live as comfortably as say Canada.

None of this is first hand impression for UK - but rather opinions of people who make pretty good living there. At least they are not able to save any thing for the long term.

Lastly i haven't heard of any one immigrating from Canada to UK or any where else - except may be US. But people from all over the world including UK immigrate here frequently so there must be some foundation underneath.

In my personal analysis, you could get good quality life AND SAVE MONEY after living comfortably (subjective to your definition of comfort and earnings) in the following order.

First - US, then Canada, then any where else.

I believe you can save money in Canada only second to the US without sacrificing quality living.

As an example, the average house prices in Vancouver are pretty much the same compared to London; but Vancouver's median income is actually $20-25k than London is (I know that is not a very good comparison seeing how London is a world financial hub and Vancouver isn't so, but still those are the statistical facts). However, Toronto fares better in this comparison with lower median house prices, but still median income less $10-15k from London.

If you haven't lived in both UK and Canada, you wouldn't know; and even then where you live in these very countries would define the difference of your experience. You can live comfortably in the UK as well.

I still have no clue how you speak about 'saving money' in Canada. I have previously worked in the UK and find Canada to be a pathetically underpaid, whilst only a few jobs that actually pay what its worth (read; IT/software development). Healthcare system is slow in both countries with long waits, but Canada has excessively longer wait periods. However, the welfare state and tax credits system may be more extensive in Canada than the UK (I never qualified for any tax credits in the UK). The current low CAD$ doesn't help either. I used to meet quite a few Canadians during my time in the UK, and have met quite a few people from teh UK in Canada. It works both ways. That said, the few thousand british pounds I managed to save in my last months in the UK did last me quite a bit in Canada, but mainly due to the conversion rate ;D

At the end of everything, it is all about personal preference, and your personality type and if the city matches that! There are things I absolutely love about Canada, and things I absolutely love about the UK, or Pakistan too (and then there are things I absolutely hate about these countries too ); nowhere is the experience perfect and you always have to sacrifice a few likes and dislikes whenever you move a country and its always going to be a love-hate relationship.