Bill C-6: Senate stage

[nofrills]

Nothing wrong with different opinion, but expressing that opinion while self-claiming it as "teaching" is just ridiculous

Oh because I used that term- feel free to substitute it with 'explain' - don't get so offended.

 

[adey786]

Oh because I used that term- feel free to substitute it with 'explain' - don't get so offended.

Can someone post u5odayes as meeting progresses this morning. I can't access live streaming.

 

[artin2015]

Can someone post u5odayes as meeting progresses this morning. I can't access live streaming.

http://senparlvu.parl.gc.ca/XRender/en/PowerBrowser/PowerBrowserV2?fk=445734&globalStreamId=3&useragent=Mozilla/5.0%20(Macintosh;%20Intel%20Mac%20OS%20X%2010_9_5)%20AppleWebKit/601.7.8%20(KHTML,%20like%20Gecko)%20Version/9.1.3%20Safari/537.86.7

 

[MarceauBletard]

You are so funny .... since when expressing your personal opinion counts as teaching ? And has he asked you to teach him?

And as he wrote it down didn't make it true , what made the stuff you just wrote down true?

Thank you! This is exactly word-for-word what I wanted to reply to him.

I have my own opinion, so does he, and so do a lot of other people.
There's not ONE SINGLE TRUTH that everybody has to agree with or leave the forum.
That's called "living in a democracy."

The article is talking about low income families.
You're continuing to miss the point, if you can't see past your own world view then I can't be bothered teaching you. Feel free to think beyond your own personal experience sometime.

I was talking about low income families on minimum wage.
The more low income you are, the more government help you receive.
Obviously, rich families don't receive any help.

You are allowed to disagree. I'm sorry I live in my own world so I can't understand your teachings.

 

[adey786]

http://senparlvu.parl.gc.ca/XRender/en/PowerBrowser/PowerBrowserV2?fk=445734&globalStreamId=3&useragent=Mozilla/5.0%20(Macintosh;%20Intel%20Mac%20OS%20X%2010_9_5)%20AppleWebKit/601.7.8%20(KHTML,%20like%20Gecko)%20Version/9.1.3%20Safari/537.86.7

Thanks. I am not on WiFi.

 

[monalisa]

Good sign
Everyone , every law firm supporting c6 ;D

 

[itsmyid]

Thank you! This is exactly word-for-word what I wanted to reply to him.

I have my own opinion, so does he, and so do a lot of other people.
There's not ONE SINGLE TRUTH that everybody has to agree with or leave the forum.
That's called "living in a democracy."
I was talking about low income families on minimum wage.
The more low income you are, the more government help you receive.
Obviously, rich families don't receive any help.

You are allowed to disagree. I'm sorry I live in my own world so I can't understand your teachings.

There are all kinds of low income families, including
1. low income due to disability or medical bills - this type of situations have all my sympathy and I agree should be supported in some way
2. Not necessarily low income but with too many kids - why have so many kids if you are unable to provide?
3. low income due to laziness
4. Not exactly low income, but they spend most of their income on alcohol or/and pots
5. Unemployed due to skill/experience or unrealistic expectation

Now we don't have any reliable sources on how many people who couldn't afford $600 application fee are from group 1, but for all other reasons, it is really just inexcusable ...

 

[MarceauBletard]

There are all kinds of low income families, including
1. low income due to disability or medical bills - this type of situations have all my sympathy and I agree should be supported in some way
2. Not necessarily low income but with too many kids - why have so many kids if you are unable to provide?
3. low income due to laziness
4. Not exactly low income, but they spend most of their income on alcohol or/and pots
5. Unemployed due to skill/experience or unrealistic expectation

Now we don't have any reliable sources on how many people who couldn't afford $600 application fee are from group 1, but for all other reasons, it is really just inexcusable ...

100% agreed!

 

[nofrills]

There are all kinds of low income families, including
1. low income due to disability or medical bills - this type of situations have all my sympathy and I agree should be supported in some way
2. Not necessarily low income but with too many kids - why have so many kids if you are unable to provide?
3. low income due to laziness
4. Not exactly low income, but they spend most of their income on alcohol or/and pots
5. Unemployed due to skill/experience or unrealistic expectation

Now we don't have any reliable sources on how many people who couldn't afford $600 application fee are from group 1, but for all other reasons, it is really just inexcusable ...

Your definitions are totally subjective and are based on your opinions and bias - here is the Canadian govt definition:
"Specifically, the threshold is defined as the income below which a family is likely to spend 20 percentage points more of its income on food, shelter and clothing than the average family." In other words, these are folks who spend significantly more than the average family on core needs: food, shelter and clothing than the average family.

Now here is part of the argument made against the fee hike:

1) "He said he was told by officials that the current fees are not cost-recovery, which means they are still financed in part by the tax base despite the increase. But he suggested the government could ease the cost barrier by adopting a tax-like formula based on income, developing a loan program, or capping the total fee for a family."

In other words, the money is not being used for citizenship services - a way to fix this is creating a fee based on income means test.

I agree that hard data on c24 (and pending c6) vs fee hike being the cause is unclear - what I don't agree with is that an unlimited fee hike is a good and fair thing. The fee should not be arbitrary or a test based on how much somebody wants to be a Canadian citizen imho.

 

[itsmyid]

Your definitions are totally subjective and are based on your opinions and bias - here is the Canadian govt definition:
"Specifically, the threshold is defined as the income below which a family is likely to spend 20 percentage points more of its income on food, shelter and clothing than the average family." In other words, these are folks who spend significantly more than the average family on core needs: food, shelter and clothing than the average family.

And how many of those are permanent residents wanting to get citizenship? I suspect not that many, and people living on social assistance are more native born than first generation immigrants.

for PRs entering Canada through various programs other than refugees, they are required to have enough funds to support themselves for at least the first year, can you really believe they can't even set aside $600 on top of the tens of thousands of $ they are required to have before their PR can be granted?

Even for people coming in as refugees, a large portion of them are privately sponsored by either family or charitable organizations, and $600 is by no means a prohibitive amount either

 

[jeea]

The discussion seems to be going well - IMO C6 should be a reality soon!

-J

 

[adey786]

The discussion seems to be going well - IMO C6 should be a reality soon!

-J

Cool and thanks.....helpful to have quick one line summary. I can't get live stream. Thank you

 

[nofrills]

And how many of those are permanent residents wanting to get citizenship? I suspect not that many, and people living on social assistance are more native born than first generation immigrants.

Do you have any evidence to either of these claims? I suspect not.

for PRs entering Canada through various programs other than refugees, they are required to have enough funds to support themselves for at least the first year, can you really believe they can't even set aside $600 on top of the tens of thousands of $ they are required to have before their PR can be granted?

I did not say that i can't believe it nor did I say that $600 is unreachable- I was simply reacting to the notion by some in this forum who dismissed this as being of any importance to those wanting to apply for citizenship. The unfortunate fact is that people struggle in Canada - yes they get help and assistance, but the notion of a user pays system is antithetical to many of the founding principles of this nation.

 

[MarceauBletard]

The discussion seems to be going well - IMO C6 should be a reality soon!
-J

I'm listening to it. I don't know what to think about it, honestly.
It feels like it's going in all directions.

 

[adey786]

I'm listening to it. I don't know what to think about it, honestly.
It feels like it's going in all directions.

OK. Sure. Thanks. Hopefully towards end we should have something concrete. Let's see.