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Being Referred for Secondary Screening when entering Canada with PR

pdptoronto

Newbie
Apr 11, 2018
4
0
Firstly Thank you for looking up this post and helping me with a possible solution. I have been a PR since Dec 2010 and have completed my residency obligation, got my renewal done (was referred to secondary) I had more than 2 years of stay and have been maintaining this all through.

Though I have more than the stipulated 2-year stay in Canada in the last 5 Years (911 days sliding window) every time I enter Canada by air or by road, I am being referred to secondary screening for getting clarification on the number of days spent in Canada and I have to explain to the officers that I have more than 2 years (which they validate in their system I assume) but then they do let me in.

I am told that my passport/PR card has been flagged for secondary, so I am always referred to another group who validate the details in their system. Has anyone experienced something similar? if so then is there a way for me to remove the flag and not have this secondary inspection every time I return back to Canada since I am 79 years old, I travel back to my home country during winter, spend about 6 months before returning back here. I was told by one of the CBSA officers that I will need to appeal to Canadian immigration to request an evaluation (number of days) before which the flag cannot be removed. Can anyone please help! Appreciate it.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,282
3,042
Firstly Thank you for looking up this post and helping me with a possible solution. I have been a PR since Dec 2010 and have completed my residency obligation, got my renewal done (was referred to secondary) I had more than 2 years of stay and have been maintaining this all through.

Though I have more than the stipulated 2-year stay in Canada in the last 5 Years (911 days sliding window) every time I enter Canada by air or by road, I am being referred to secondary screening for getting clarification on the number of days spent in Canada and I have to explain to the officers that I have more than 2 years (which they validate in their system I assume) but then they do let me in.

I am told that my passport/PR card has been flagged for secondary, so I am always referred to another group who validate the details in their system. Has anyone experienced something similar? if so then is there a way for me to remove the flag and not have this secondary inspection every time I return back to Canada since I am 79 years old, I travel back to my home country during winter, spend about 6 months before returning back here. I was told by one of the CBSA officers that I will need to appeal to Canadian immigration to request an evaluation (number of days) before which the flag cannot be removed. Can anyone please help! Appreciate it.
While I have spent my share of time in Secondary at a PoE, all that was before I became a PR nearly a decade ago. Meaning I am responding even though I do not have the particular personal experience you are looking for.

Nonetheless, perhaps I can shed some light on your situation.

A key thing to remember, and this is critical, is that every time you arrive at the PoE, what counts is how many days you have been present in Canada during the five years previous to that specific day. Days in Canada more than five years ago do NOT count. (You probably get this, but it is so important it needs to be explicitly stated.)

Since you have cut-it-close in the past, and continue to regularly spend extended periods of time outside Canada, you appear to be on a schedule which will continue to be cutting-it-close for the foreseeable future. As long as you continue to be cutting-it-close, CBSA and IRCC are bound to exercise extra caution and scrutiny most or perhaps even all times you are subject to examination. Particularly when you are returning to Canada after an extended absence. Particularly when you again apply for a new PR card.

911 days compared to the minimum PR Residency Obligation of 730 days might not seem like cutting-it-close to you. But 911 days in five years is less than half the time. That suggests you live elsewhere and may merely be visiting Canada. That you are NOT well-settled and living permanently in Canada. That is, it probably appears to CBSA and IRCC officers and agents that you have NOT acted consistently with the purpose of being granted PR status, which is to settle and live in Canada permanently.

Many PRs tend to overlook this and fail to recognize that the PR Residency Obligation is a MINIMUM, deliberately set low to accommodate contingencies like family emergencies. It is NOT intended to facilitate part-time living in Canada.

As long as you do meet the minimum AND CAN AND DO PROVE IT when examined, your status should be OK. But as long as you continue to be cutting-it-close, CBSA and IRCC are quite likely to continue their elevated scrutiny of your PR RO compliance upon arrival at a PoE and upon application for a new PR card.

To be frank, and you should be aware of this, the overall pattern you may have established probably gives some officials the impression you may be exploiting the Canadian immigration system. I do not know your personal circumstances, but it is easy to see CBSA or IRCC apprehending that an older person who stays in Canada just long enough to meet minimum requirements might be doing so for certain benefits, such as qualifying for Provincial health care coverage. Impressions like that can tip the equities scales. Meaning such an impression could result in a CBSA or IRCC officer approaching you and your case, including the proof of PR RO compliance you present, more skeptically, more strictly, more inclined to identify and act on reasons to reach a negative decision.

In other words, you may need to be more conscientious and careful about putting together and presenting proof of dates you are in Canada, for however long CBSA and/or IRCC have concerns . . . perhaps at some point they will perceive your pattern is fixed enough there is little reason to question you, but as long as you continue to be cutting-it-close that is their call and NOT much you can do about it . . . other than continue to have proof of your presence in Canada to show every time.
 

pdptoronto

Newbie
Apr 11, 2018
4
0
@dpenabill Thank you so much for providing your detailed insight which I greatly appreciate!

Based on the note, I strongly agree with how things are being perceived by CBSA/IRCC officials, as it appears to them that just basic threshold is being met. Unfortunately, there have been strong reasoning and background behind requirements to stay away from Canada and the intention is not to abuse the system for benefits (such as health or taxation). With that said, I was rather hoping that I could explain my position and helplessness for not being able to stay longer in Canada in the past and reiterate my strong intentions to continue to stay for longer periods, here in Canada.

With that said, is there any way for me to approach CIC or any other official either via phone or in person to get this flag removed from my passport/PR card. At this age after taking a long travel from across the other side of the globe and having to arrive at a POE and again wait for hours to be scrutinized is not the best experience and the same goes when taking travel by road. FYI my second renewal happened back in 2016 and I am over 900 days in the last 5 years.

Kindly let me know if I could pursue this with any authorities, if at all possible and thank you so much for your help in advance!
 

evdm

Hero Member
Jun 16, 2017
650
360
Would citizenship be an option?

You don't appear to have the requisite number of days currently, but if you were to plan it properly you could apply for citizenship and then you wouldn't have the residency obligation to worry about at all. Citizens can, and do get sent to secondary for a variety of reasons, but in your case it might help.

I know that citizenship isn't an option for everyone, especially those who cannot hold a second citizenship with their original (non-canadian) citizenship; but if this isn't an issue, perhaps see if you can stay in Canada to meet the citizenship requirements and apply.

Sorry I can't help with a way to make it easier for you as a PR. I would have to agree that @dpenabill's reasoning is very sound. Your next PR Card renewal is also coming up, and I would expect that to take long too, which would also potentially affect your ability to travel. So long you're not spending a majority of the time in Canada I would expect this extra scrutiny.
 

bricksonly

Hero Member
Mar 18, 2018
433
54
Would citizenship be an option?

You don't appear to have the requisite number of days currently, but if you were to plan it properly you could apply for citizenship and then you wouldn't have the residency obligation to worry about at all. Citizens can, and do get sent to secondary for a variety of reasons, but in your case it might help.

I know that citizenship isn't an option for everyone, especially those who cannot hold a second citizenship with their original (non-canadian) citizenship; but if this isn't an issue, perhaps see if you can stay in Canada to meet the citizenship requirements and apply.

Sorry I can't help with a way to make it easier for you as a PR. I would have to agree that @dpenabill's reasoning is very sound. Your next PR Card renewal is also coming up, and I would expect that to take long too, which would also potentially affect your ability to travel. So long you're not spending a majority of the time in Canada I would expect this extra scrutiny.
I dont think OP's secondary is just for RO. For some weird reason, his name/photo could connect to another person who is in the list then he will always be stopped by the system. To change the system is very hard!

RO check could be required but not that smart. You won't be checked EVERY time you enter the country. It's obviously the name is under a review list, even OP lives for 5 full years then leave Canada then reenter, the thing will still happen.

And this is just my guess
 

DavEd

Star Member
Mar 15, 2018
192
34
Firstly Thank you for looking up this post and helping me with a possible solution. I have been a PR since Dec 2010 and have completed my residency obligation, got my renewal done (was referred to secondary) I had more than 2 years of stay and have been maintaining this all through.

Though I have more than the stipulated 2-year stay in Canada in the last 5 Years (911 days sliding window) every time I enter Canada by air or by road, I am being referred to secondary screening for getting clarification on the number of days spent in Canada and I have to explain to the officers that I have more than 2 years (which they validate in their system I assume) but then they do let me in.

I am told that my passport/PR card has been flagged for secondary, so I am always referred to another group who validate the details in their system. Has anyone experienced something similar? if so then is there a way for me to remove the flag and not have this secondary inspection every time I return back to Canada since I am 79 years old, I travel back to my home country during winter, spend about 6 months before returning back here. I was told by one of the CBSA officers that I will need to appeal to Canadian immigration to request an evaluation (number of days) before which the flag cannot be removed. Can anyone please help! Appreciate it.
Having read through your case, it is perculiar but you are not alone... the residency obligation though cutting it close would not likely put you into secondary every time you return to Canada. There are other factors that may be at play i suspect...

1. You could have a name that is similar to a name already flagged in CBSA system therefore every time you return they refer you to secondary to verify your identity.

2. Your address on file could have been flagged before by the RCMP or CSIS... this means every time you return the system will send you to secondary

There have been many documented cases to this effect and because of these reasons some people have found themselves on “ no fly lists” requiring agents to review their identities

Even if you were to get citizenship... if it a name or address issue then the flag in the system would still be there
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,282
3,042
I dont think OP's secondary is just for RO. For some weird reason, his name/photo could connect to another person who is in the list then he will always be stopped by the system. To change the system is very hard!

RO check could be required but not that smart. You won't be checked EVERY time you enter the country. It's obviously the name is under a review list, even OP lives for 5 full years then leave Canada then reenter, the thing will still happen.

And this is just my guess
It is certainly possible there are other reasons for @pdptoronto's repeated referrals to Secondary upon arrival at the PoE. It is way less than obvious or certain why.

Given the duration and pattern of absences, concerns about compliance with the PR Residency Obligation is a more or less glaring possibility, high on a list of the-usual-suspects one might say. But this same situation, the duration and pattern of absences, may indeed also trigger other concerns. And, as you note, there could be other questions or concerns which triggered the elevated scrutiny for @pdptoronto.

Since @pdptoronto reports being questioned about PR RO compliance when referred to Secondary, that suggests the concern is indeed about compliance with the PR RO.

But whatever the concern, odds are the concern either derives from the duration and pattern of absences, or the duration and pattern of absences tends to spur continued scrutiny.

Without knowing the actual reason why a PR is being regularly referred to Secondary, no one can reliably forecast whether that traveler will or will not be referred to Secondary in the future. Some reasons may indeed result in a referral to Secondary every time, or nearly every time.

I suspect you are correct that it would be very difficult to change what is in the system.


Based on the note, I strongly agree with how things are being perceived by CBSA/IRCC officials, as it appears to them that just basic threshold is being met. Unfortunately, there have been strong reasoning and background behind requirements to stay away from Canada and the intention is not to abuse the system for benefits (such as health or taxation). With that said, I was rather hoping that I could explain my position and helplessness for not being able to stay longer in Canada in the past and reiterate my strong intentions to continue to stay for longer periods, here in Canada.

With that said, is there any way for me to approach CIC or any other official either via phone or in person to get this flag removed from my passport/PR card. At this age after taking a long travel from across the other side of the globe and having to arrive at a POE and again wait for hours to be scrutinized is not the best experience and the same goes when taking travel by road. FYI my second renewal happened back in 2016 and I am over 900 days in the last 5 years.

Kindly let me know if I could pursue this with any authorities, if at all possible and thank you so much for your help in advance!
As I noted, I tend to agree with the observation by @bricksonly that it would be difficult to change what is in the system. BUT I personally have no experience and very little information about approaching CBSA or IRCC in an effort to change, fix, or otherwise address a FOSS alert or "flag." My scant understanding is that even if a FOSS note/alert/flag is erroneous, the best the client can do is to submit information to correct the error . . . and whether this results in the "error" being removed or the addition of a further note reflecting the client's refutation, I do not know but suspect that is entirely up to the agency's discretion. If your GCMS records do indeed have a FOSS note/alert/flag which references concerns about PR RO compliance, there probably is no error as such, nothing to correct.

Note that it is not certain there is a "flag" . . . it appears fairly likely there is, but it is also possible that between your history, and the length of your most recent absence when you arrive at the PoE, that is enough to trigger the referral to Secondary.

Whether it is due to a "flag" or triggered by the length of the absence upon your arrival at the PoE, if the reason for the referral is concern about PR RO compliance, as I noted before perhaps eventually the concerns CBSA/IRCC have will be abated and they will cease referring you to Secondary, or at least make the referral less often.

If there is some other concern, as suggested by @bricksonly, which is indeed quite possible, whether or not you can address and resolve that concern depends on what it is. How to approach CBSA/IRCC about what FOSS notes/alerts/flags there are for you, that is something I am not familiar with doing . . . while an ATIP application might be the place to start, I do not know how to make that for this particular issue.

My sense is that this is indeed about PR RO compliance concerns, and that the risk is the referrals will continue unless and until you have established a history of being well-settled in Canada or, as otherwise suggested by others, you qualify for and obtain citizenship. It appears that upon arrival at the PoE you typically have been absent for six months or so, and for a full year within the last year and a half, which as I noted before tends to suggest you are visiting Canada rather than permanently living in Canada. An officer charged with the mandate to enforce Canadian immigration laws who sees this, and then examines your longer history and observes what appears to be a long term pattern of coming to Canada just enough to meet the MINIMUM obligations, is virtually compelled to conduct a more thorough examination to verify you continue to meet the PR RO obligations. It is what it is.
 

mats

Hero Member
Nov 2, 2010
464
38
Category........
Visa Office......
London
NOC Code......
3113
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21-01-2011
AOR Received.
18-03-2011
Med's Done....
18-03-2012
Passport Req..
Sent 19-03-2012
VISA ISSUED...
30-Mar-2012
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12-July-2012
Firstly Thank you for looking up this post and helping me with a possible solution. I have been a PR since Dec 2010 and have completed my residency obligation, got my renewal done (was referred to secondary) I had more than 2 years of stay and have been maintaining this all through.

Though I have more than the stipulated 2-year stay in Canada in the last 5 Years (911 days sliding window) every time I enter Canada by air or by road, I am being referred to secondary screening for getting clarification on the number of days spent in Canada and I have to explain to the officers that I have more than 2 years (which they validate in their system I assume) but then they do let me in.

I am told that my passport/PR card has been flagged for secondary, so I am always referred to another group who validate the details in their system. Has anyone experienced something similar? if so then is there a way for me to remove the flag and not have this secondary inspection every time I return back to Canada since I am 79 years old, I travel back to my home country during winter, spend about 6 months before returning back here. I was told by one of the CBSA officers that I will need to appeal to Canadian immigration to request an evaluation (number of days) before which the flag cannot be removed. Can anyone please help! Appreciate it.
Maybe you should try to get the ATIP notes on the last PR card renewal, that should give some idea perhaps. My 2 cents ...