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Applying for citizenship day count question.

SeanDame

Star Member
Jan 12, 2014
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Category........
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Hi,

I had a few days outside of Canada after I got my PR.
I had one 35 days trip and I had about 20 days that I was 1 day in the US.

Do I count these days? I did start the day in Canada and ended the day back home in Canada... so do these day count as out of country days?

Confusing to me.. I couldn’t find a concrete answer.

If I don’t count any days out of Canada, I could apply for citizenship on May 9th 2018.. I know for sure I need to count the 35 days..
The question is.. should I wait 20 more days?
Or just apply?
 

keesio

VIP Member
May 16, 2012
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Toronto, Ontario
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30-01-2013
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waived
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15-08-2013
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14-10-2013
Hi,

I had a few days outside of Canada after I got my PR.
I had one 35 days trip and I had about 20 days that I was 1 day in the US.

Do I count these days? I did start the day in Canada and ended the day back home in Canada... so do these day count as out of country days?

Confusing to me.. I couldn’t find a concrete answer.

If I don’t count any days out of Canada, I could apply for citizenship on May 9th 2018.. I know for sure I need to count the 35 days..
The question is.. should I wait 20 more days?
Or just apply?
Your day trips do not count as one day outside Canada. But you must list them in the residency calculator.

Note that it is already recommended to apply with a few "extra" days of residency. This "buffer" often comes in handy.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,294
3,059
Hi,

I had a few days outside of Canada after I got my PR.
I had one 35 days trip and I had about 20 days that I was 1 day in the US.

Do I count these days? I did start the day in Canada and ended the day back home in Canada... so do these day count as out of country days?

Confusing to me.. I couldn’t find a concrete answer.

If I don’t count any days out of Canada, I could apply for citizenship on May 9th 2018.. I know for sure I need to count the 35 days..
The question is.. should I wait 20 more days?
Or just apply?
I concur in the observations posted by @keesio

Additional observations:

Use the online Physical Presence Calculator. The online calculator automatically counts the days and is all but guaranteed to be accurate SO LONG AS the applicant accurately and completely enters each and every date the applicant left Canada and each and every date the applicant entered Canada. Even though technically there is a paper form (available in pdf online) which can be used in lieu of the online presence calculator, it cannot be overstated how important it is to use the online calculator . . . for estimating when to apply AND especially to print out and submit with the application.

As @keesio observed, the applicant needs to report EACH day the applicant departed/exited Canada during the previous five years (the "eligibility period"). If the applicant then reports a return to Canada that same day, or even the next day, the calculator will show ZERO days absence for that trip. Nonetheless, again, the trip must be declared. Even a one-hour jaunt across the Niagara River to pick up a package or fill up the gas tank needs to be declared.

May 9, 2018 was about 40 days ago, so if you use the calculator today, enter tomorrow as the date you will apply, and based on what you report it should show that you have around 1135 days credit. That should be a sufficient margin over the minimum unless there are other circumstances to consider.

You can also use the calculator today using a hypothetical date you will apply in the future. For example, if you anticipate that you will meet the technical ABSOLUTE MINIMUM threshold to be eligible as of May 9, 2019, you could use that date. Obviously the extent of absences between now and then, that is dates of travel between now and then, would be hypothetical as well. But that will give you a good idea about when you will become eligible (if, for example, you meant 2019 rather than 2018). With two caveats.


Caveats (about assessing eligibility for a date in 2019 or later):

Possible Changes in Law -- The law is not at all likely to change before mid-2019 but the law is always subject to change. The further into the future one is calculating, the bigger the risk the law might change in the meantime. Typically, almost always, the law in effect on the date of applying is the law that governs. So it is imperative to NOT rely on current law governing a future application. Future calculations are necessarily ONLY ESTIMATIONS and, for emphasis, subject to any changes in the law in the meantime.

Margin Margin Margin -- Calculating eligibility for citizenship is NOT like collecting points on a rewards card or credits toward a university degree. Not only does the applicant definitively need to meet the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM, but IRCC needs to be sure the applicant has met, at the VERY LEAST, the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM. IRCC currently recommends WAITING to apply to be sure to cover any possible errors or oversights in the presence calculation. In Addition to That, applicants who want to minimize the chances of non-routine processing due to questions or concerns about meeting the presence requirements will WAIT long enough to have a comfortable margin, a margin large enough that a processing agent or Citizenship Officer will feel very comfortable concluding there are NO questions about whether the applicant met the requirement. There is NO POINT RUSHING to make the application if, in turn, there will be requests for additional information and documentation to verify the applicant's presence leading to potentially long delays in getting to the oath. Sometimes waiting longer to apply will result in taking the oath sooner.

As to Amount of MARGIN In Particular --

-- As noted, if your situation is such that as of May 9, 2018, you were present in Canada sufficient to have credit for at least 1095 days presence as of that day, and you have remained in Canada since, you would have a margin today of around 40 days. That should suffice.

-- Similarly a year from now, if as of May 9, 2019, for example, you meet the presence requirement, waiting to apply in mid-June 2019 would be a good idea, that would give you a comfortable margin.

-- That said, some applicants should consider OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES in deciding when to apply. Each prospective applicant needs to decide for himself or herself: WHEN is the best date to apply? How much margin would be prudent? For example, I waited and had a margin of around 300 or so days when I applied. I had some very particular reasons for waiting that long, for building that much margin (largely but not entirely rooted in the fact that I am self-employed and sell ALL my services abroad). There are way too many factors and circumstances which can influence this decision, the WHEN to apply decision, to attempt enumerating them. Most things to consider, however, should be obvious or at least readily apparent upon reflection, upon engaging in a critical, objective self-assessment as to the strength of evidence showing presence in Canada . . . or, conversely and perhaps even more importantly, the extent of continuing ties abroad (ranging from circumstances like mine, where I was still in effect employed by an entity abroad, to familial circumstances like having a spouse predominantly living or working abroad, among many, many other situations).

In any event, it is a MISTAKE to simply rely on the date the minimum threshold is met. Many make this mistake and nonetheless get by OK. Many others make this mistake and end up suffering delayed processing, sometimes rather lengthy delays. And some, those who cut it too close, making a mistake for which they end up falling short, suffer a negative outcome, having to withdraw and re-apply or being denied.
 

DavEd

Star Member
Mar 15, 2018
192
34
I concur in the observations posted by @keesio

Additional observations:

Use the online Physical Presence Calculator. The online calculator automatically counts the days and is all but guaranteed to be accurate SO LONG AS the applicant accurately and completely enters each and every date the applicant left Canada and each and every date the applicant entered Canada. Even though technically there is a paper form (available in pdf online) which can be used in lieu of the online presence calculator, it cannot be overstated how important it is to use the online calculator . . . for estimating when to apply AND especially to print out and submit with the application.

As @keesio observed, the applicant needs to report EACH day the applicant departed/exited Canada during the previous five years (the "eligibility period"). If the applicant then reports a return to Canada that same day, or even the next day, the calculator will show ZERO days absence for that trip. Nonetheless, again, the trip must be declared. Even a one-hour jaunt across the Niagara River to pick up a package or fill up the gas tank needs to be declared.

May 9, 2018 was about 40 days ago, so if you use the calculator today, enter tomorrow as the date you will apply, and based on what you report it should show that you have around 1135 days credit. That should be a sufficient margin over the minimum unless there are other circumstances to consider.

You can also use the calculator today using a hypothetical date you will apply in the future. For example, if you anticipate that you will meet the technical ABSOLUTE MINIMUM threshold to be eligible as of May 9, 2019, you could use that date. Obviously the extent of absences between now and then, that is dates of travel between now and then, would be hypothetical as well. But that will give you a good idea about when you will become eligible (if, for example, you meant 2019 rather than 2018). With two caveats.


Caveats (about assessing eligibility for a date in 2019 or later):

Possible Changes in Law -- The law is not at all likely to change before mid-2019 but the law is always subject to change. The further into the future one is calculating, the bigger the risk the law might change in the meantime. Typically, almost always, the law in effect on the date of applying is the law that governs. So it is imperative to NOT rely on current law governing a future application. Future calculations are necessarily ONLY ESTIMATIONS and, for emphasis, subject to any changes in the law in the meantime.

Margin Margin Margin -- Calculating eligibility for citizenship is NOT like collecting points on a rewards card or credits toward a university degree. Not only does the applicant definitively need to meet the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM, but IRCC needs to be sure the applicant has met, at the VERY LEAST, the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM. IRCC currently recommends WAITING to apply to be sure to cover any possible errors or oversights in the presence calculation. In Addition to That, applicants who want to minimize the chances of non-routine processing due to questions or concerns about meeting the presence requirements will WAIT long enough to have a comfortable margin, a margin large enough that a processing agent or Citizenship Officer will feel very comfortable concluding there are NO questions about whether the applicant met the requirement. There is NO POINT RUSHING to make the application if, in turn, there will be requests for additional information and documentation to verify the applicant's presence leading to potentially long delays in getting to the oath. Sometimes waiting longer to apply will result in taking the oath sooner.

As to Amount of MARGIN In Particular --

-- As noted, if your situation is such that as of May 9, 2018, you were present in Canada sufficient to have credit for at least 1095 days presence as of that day, and you have remained in Canada since, you would have a margin today of around 40 days. That should suffice.

-- Similarly a year from now, if as of May 9, 2019, for example, you meet the presence requirement, waiting to apply in mid-June 2019 would be a good idea, that would give you a comfortable margin.

-- That said, some applicants should consider OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES in deciding when to apply. Each prospective applicant needs to decide for himself or herself: WHEN is the best date to apply? How much margin would be prudent? For example, I waited and had a margin of around 300 or so days when I applied. I had some very particular reasons for waiting that long, for building that much margin (largely but not entirely rooted in the fact that I am self-employed and sell ALL my services abroad). There are way too many factors and circumstances which can influence this decision, the WHEN to apply decision, to attempt enumerating them. Most things to consider, however, should be obvious or at least readily apparent upon reflection, upon engaging in a critical, objective self-assessment as to the strength of evidence showing presence in Canada . . . or, conversely and perhaps even more importantly, the extent of continuing ties abroad (ranging from circumstances like mine, where I was still in effect employed by an entity abroad, to familial circumstances like having a spouse predominantly living or working abroad, among many, many other situations).

In any event, it is a MISTAKE to simply rely on the date the minimum threshold is met. Many make this mistake and nonetheless get by OK. Many others make this mistake and end up suffering delayed processing, sometimes rather lengthy delays. And some, those who cut it too close, making a mistake for which they end up falling short, suffer a negative outcome, having to withdraw and re-apply or being denied.

Agreed....
in some circumstances however a buffer may be unnecessary if an applicant is totally sure about their absences...

My brother landed at Toronto Pearson 1 July 2015... his passport expired in September 2015 and he never renewed it... so he has never left the country since 1 July 2015...

He plans to send in his application come 02 July.....