+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

7 months since I passed test

bolomanCA

Newbie
Jul 24, 2018
6
0
Hi

its been 7 months since i passed my citizenship test.. I called last month to try and see what was going on the the service rep told me everything was fine and to keep waiting.. i also did a ATIP request and its been 45 days and i still have not received the information requested.. I am starting to think i should be concerned.. any thoughts into what might be going on here

did my test in Montreal.
 

jameswood2

Star Member
Jul 11, 2018
157
22
Hi

its been 7 months since i passed my citizenship test.. I called last month to try and see what was going on the the service rep told me everything was fine and to keep waiting.. i also did a ATIP request and its been 45 days and i still have not received the information requested.. I am starting to think i should be concerned.. any thoughts into what might be going on here

did my test in Montreal.
You got DM?
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,298
3,062
its been 7 months since i passed my citizenship test.. I am starting to think i should be concerned..

did my test in Montreal.
Probably no reason for concern . . . unless you know of something about you or your application which would cause a problem.

Wait for the response to the ATIP . . . even though that is NOT likely to reveal much you do not already know or would not learn soon anyway.

If no progress indicated before then, in September submit a formal weborm query.

Follow-up from there, depending on responses or changes in the meantime, depends a lot on your personal circumstances. Whether to continue waiting or make an inquiry through the MP's office, or attempt making a formal demand for action, for example, or to consult with a lawyer, or . . . as I said, it DEPENDS.

While the forum is rife with various largely exaggerated complaints about how slow this or that local office is, historically Montreal has tended to be one of those which is indeed notoriously slow.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vancouverbc2013

Surajgill_in

Full Member
Jun 29, 2012
40
7
Hi

its been 7 months since i passed my citizenship test.. I called last month to try and see what was going on the the service rep told me everything was fine and to keep waiting.. i also did a ATIP request and its been 45 days and i still have not received the information requested.. I am starting to think i should be concerned.. any thoughts into what might be going on here

did my test in Montreal.[/QUOTE
Cic is busy in the settlement of illegal immigrants that have crossed border.
 

bolomanCA

Newbie
Jul 24, 2018
6
0
Probably no reason for concern . . . unless you know of something about you or your application which would cause a problem.

Wait for the response to the ATIP . . . even though that is NOT likely to reveal much you do not already know or would not learn soon anyway.

If no progress indicated before then, in September submit a formal weborm query.

Follow-up from there, depending on responses or changes in the meantime, depends a lot on your personal circumstances. Whether to continue waiting or make an inquiry through the MP's office, or attempt making a formal demand for action, for example, or to consult with a lawyer, or . . . as I said, it DEPENDS.

While the forum is rife with various largely exaggerated complaints about how slow this or that local office is, historically Montreal has tended to be one of those which is indeed notoriously slow.
Yes I am concerned.. because during the interview the agent made a big deal about my house in the US.. he kept asking why I had not sold the house.. when I pushed back about why it was a concern given that I had owned the house prior to moving to Canada.. he said it was his job to see if I had enough attachment to Canada to justify granting my application.. so yeah I am concerned that my push back could have been used against me..
 

SpiceIsland

Hero Member
Oct 2, 2017
869
356
Category........
CEC
App. Filed.......
24 August 2017
AOR Received.
02 October 2017
Interview........
29 November 2017
Yes I am concerned.. because during the interview the agent made a big deal about my house in the US.. he kept asking why I had not sold the house.. when I pushed back about why it was a concern given that I had owned the house prior to moving to Canada.. he said it was his job to see if I had enough attachment to Canada to justify granting my application.. so yeah I am concerned that my push back could have been used against me..
Send them a webform inquiry today.
 

mogli

Star Member
Feb 28, 2013
101
13
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
Yes I am concerned.. because during the interview the agent made a big deal about my house in the US.. he kept asking why I had not sold the house.. when I pushed back about why it was a concern given that I had owned the house prior to moving to Canada.. he said it was his job to see if I had enough attachment to Canada to justify granting my application.. so yeah I am concerned that my push back could have been used against me..
I don't recall any questions on the app regarding property or houses, curious, how did your conversation about your house in the USA even come up ?
Having a house there should not logically compromise anything. A lot of people who go for citizenshpip here could have a house somewhere outside, doesn't mean they're not going to be true to Canada.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,298
3,062
Yes I am concerned.. because during the interview the agent made a big deal about my house in the US.. he kept asking why I had not sold the house.. when I pushed back about why it was a concern given that I had owned the house prior to moving to Canada.. he said it was his job to see if I had enough attachment to Canada to justify granting my application.. so yeah I am concerned that my push back could have been used against me..
This tracks to the "DEPENDS" element.

And makes the query from @mogli relevant. For example, if you already have had some non-routine processing, such as requests for additional information or documentation, and particularly so any RQ-related requests (RQ-lite CIT 0520 or full-blown RQ CIT 0171), that would illuminate things.

For an application made in August 2017 there is no "residency" requirement, as such, just the physical presence requirements. However, residency ties are a huge factor in weighing evidence of physical presence. The more ties and more consistent resident ties the applicant has, the stronger that supports the applicant's account of days present in Canada. And, conversely, of course, either weaker residency ties in Canada OR stronger residency ties abroad (like maintaining a residence in a foreign country, such as in the U.S.), in turn weaken the strength of the presence case.

Typically, in scenarios raising questions about the applicant's account of days present in Canada, there will be RQ-lite (CIT 0520) or full-blown RQ (CIT 0171), and the quantity and QUALITY of the evidence submitted in response will affect how IRCC handles the case.

If at this stage you have NOT been issued either the RQ-lite or full blown RQ, odds are good there is still NO PROBLEM. Webform query, again in SEPTEMBER (still a bit early for a routine application; better to time such things to actually obtain real information rather than engage in futile busy-work), may illuminate something if you have not learned more or seen progress sooner.

If you have been issued either the RQ-lite or full blown RQ, or you have otherwise have had a non-routine procedure, no need to make a Webform query any time soon. You know what the issue is. You have a presence-case, a NON-routine application which is going to take longer, and in Montreal probably significantly longer depending on how the responsible Citizenship Officer assesses your response (to whatever non-routine requests you have been sent).

The overall significance of home ownership abroad is indirect. Home ownership in Canada, for example, does not prove presence in Canada. So home ownership abroad does not prove presence abroad (or lack of presence in Canada). But it is indeed indirect evidence. It is indeed a significant residency tie. Most people tend to live in the home they own. So, when an applicant still owns a home abroad, naturally a decision-maker might want to see additional evidence to more conclusively show the place the individual actually was during a period of time the individual claims to be staying somewhere other than in the home he or she owns abroad. Other residency-ties factors will thus loom large. For an applicant with a spouse, for example, where the spouse was living and working can be a significant factor, albeit just one more factor among many other potentially relevant factors. Employment history and verification of that, that too looms large. Again, lots and lots of DEPENDS involved once there are questions, once IRCC is questioning let alone challenging the applicant's account of actual presence.

For now, the big difference is whether or not you have a NON-routine case or still a routine case in which the interviewer had some questions. If just the latter, again wait for the response to the ATIP and if you learn nothing of import from that (which is likely to be how it goes, unless it just happens to be timed so you learn something you would get notice of soon anyway), wait to SEPTEMBER (full year plus a bit since applying) and do the formal webform query . . . and go from there, follow-up to depend on what happens or what you learn in the meantime.

If you have a non-routine case (in particular if you have been issued RQ related requests), assuming you have properly responded there is not much to do but WAIT. You could see a Decision-made and oath date soon . . . or not for a long while . . . or see referral to a Citizenship Judge if the Citizenship Officer is not satisfied with your response.


Edit to Add:

so yeah I am concerned that my push back could have been used against me..
There is some possibility a negative emotive response could affect decision-making. BUT it is NOT LIKELY.

Facts and evidence and assessment of your credibility likely to have far, far more influence.

Fact of pushing back itself, in particular, should have little or no influence.

If, however, the push back came across as evasive, or was done in a manner which made it appear as though you were concealing something, or was in effect a refusal to answer, well sure, obviously that could have a negative impact, ranging from hurting your credibility to resulting in negative inferences (depending on the particular exchange).

Should have been obvious that any information about residency ties was relevant, and potentially of some concern, so it was imprudent to not simply answer the questions truthfully. BUT interviewers, processing agents, and citizenship officers, are undoubtedly well-acquainted with this sort of exchange and NOT likely to give it much weight UNLESS the applicant does indeed appear to be hiding something or otherwise appears to be evasive or deceptive.


Side note: there is a widespread misconception that the applicant's intentions are not relevant, which largely derives from the absence of any intent requirement. Obviously, a person's intentions (motives et al) are relevant, at the very least, to an assessment of the applicant's credibility. But residency related intentions are of course also relevant to strength of the presence case. (There is a higher probability someone who does NOT intend to reside in Canada has not fully disclosed all presence or ties abroad than an applicant who intends to reside in Canada . . . thus inviting reason to question things more extensively.)

Compare to employment history. Employment in Canada is NOT a requirement for citizenship. Not at all. BUT employment history is nonetheless such an important factor the applicant is required to give a full accounting of employment history during the eligibility period. In fact, employment history, despite not being about any particular requirement, is so important that IRCC will decline to process an application in which employment history is not disclosed.
 
Last edited:

bolomanCA

Newbie
Jul 24, 2018
6
0
This tracks to the "DEPENDS" element.

And makes the query from @mogli relevant. For example, if you already have had some non-routine processing, such as requests for additional information or documentation, and particularly so any RQ-related requests (RQ-lite CIT 0520 or full-blown RQ CIT 0171), that would illuminate things.

For an application made in August 2017 there is no "residency" requirement, as such, just the physical presence requirements. However, residency ties are a huge factor in weighing evidence of physical presence. The more ties and more consistent resident ties the applicant has, the stronger that supports the applicant's account of days present in Canada. And, conversely, of course, either weaker residency ties in Canada OR stronger residency ties abroad (like maintaining a residence in a foreign country, such as in the U.S.), in turn weaken the strength of the presence case.

Typically, in scenarios raising questions about the applicant's account of days present in Canada, there will be RQ-lite (CIT 0520) or full-blown RQ (CIT 0171), and the quantity and QUALITY of the evidence submitted in response will affect how IRCC handles the case.

If at this stage you have NOT been issued either the RQ-lite or full blown RQ, odds are good there is still NO PROBLEM. Webform query, again in SEPTEMBER (still a bit early for a routine application; better to time such things to actually obtain real information rather than engage in futile busy-work), may illuminate something if you have not learned more or seen progress sooner.

If you have been issued either the RQ-lite or full blown RQ, or you have otherwise have had a non-routine procedure, no need to make a Webform query any time soon. You know what the issue is. You have a presence-case, a NON-routine application which is going to take longer, and in Montreal probably significantly longer depending on how the responsible Citizenship Officer assesses your response (to whatever non-routine requests you have been sent).

The overall significance of home ownership abroad is indirect. Home ownership in Canada, for example, does not prove presence in Canada. So home ownership abroad does not prove presence abroad (or lack of presence in Canada). But it is indeed indirect evidence. It is indeed a significant residency tie. Most people tend to live in the home they own. So, when an applicant still owns a home abroad, naturally a decision-maker might want to see additional evidence to more conclusively show the place the individual actually was during a period of time the individual claims to be staying somewhere other than in the home he or she owns abroad. Other residency-ties factors will thus loom large. For an applicant with a spouse, for example, where the spouse was living and working can be a significant factor, albeit just one more factor among many other potentially relevant factors. Employment history and verification of that, that too looms large. Again, lots and lots of DEPENDS involved once there are questions, once IRCC is questioning let alone challenging the applicant's account of actual presence.

For now, the big difference is whether or not you have a NON-routine case or still a routine case in which the interviewer had some questions. If just the latter, again wait for the response to the ATIP and if you learn nothing of import from that (which is likely to be how it goes, unless it just happens to be timed so you learn something you would get notice of soon anyway), wait to SEPTEMBER (full year plus a bit since applying) and do the formal webform query . . . and go from there, follow-up to depend on what happens or what you learn in the meantime.

If you have a non-routine case (in particular if you have been issued RQ related requests), assuming you have properly responded there is not much to do but WAIT. You could see a Decision-made and oath date soon . . . or not for a long while . . . or see referral to a Citizenship Judge if the Citizenship Officer is not satisfied with your response.


Edit to Add:



There is some possibility a negative emotive response could affect decision-making. BUT it is NOT LIKELY.

Facts and evidence and assessment of your credibility likely to have far, far more influence.

Fact of pushing back itself, in particular, should have little or no influence.

If, however, the push back came across as evasive, or was done in a manner which made it appear as though you were concealing something, or was in effect a refusal to answer, well sure, obviously that could have a negative impact, ranging from hurting your credibility to resulting in negative inferences (depending on the particular exchange).

Should have been obvious that any information about residency ties was relevant, and potentially of some concern, so it was imprudent to not simply answer the questions truthfully. BUT interviewers, processing agents, and citizenship officers, are undoubtedly well-acquainted with this sort of exchange and NOT likely to give it much weight UNLESS the applicant does indeed appear to be hiding something or otherwise appears to be evasive or deceptive.


Side note: there is a widespread misconception that the applicant's intentions are not relevant, which largely derives from the absence of any intent requirement. Obviously, a person's intentions (motives et al) are relevant, at the very least, to an assessment of the applicant's credibility. But residency related intentions are of course also relevant to strength of the presence case. (There is a higher probability someone who does NOT intend to reside in Canada has not fully disclosed all presence or ties abroad than an applicant who intends to reside in Canada . . . thus inviting reason to question things more extensively.)

Compare to employment history. Employment in Canada is NOT a requirement for citizenship. Not at all. BUT employment history is nonetheless such an important factor the applicant is required to give a full accounting of employment history during the eligibility period. In fact, employment history, despite not being about any particular requirement, is so important that IRCC will decline to process an application in which employment history is not disclosed.
I should add that my US house was purchased 5 years prior to moving here yet it seems to be an issue with immigration.. two years ago while crossing the border i had my car searched and the agent noticed letters from my Mortgage provider.. he made me owning property in the US an issue and said he was going to calculate my physical presence here in Canada.. I don't know if he did it on purpose or not but he claimed i had done less than a year in Canada (i had actually done 3 years) from that point he issued a removal order on me.. I appealed and submitted letters from employers, 3 years bank statement, 3 years tax assessments, and anything i could lay hands on. I won the appeal in time to renew my PR card and also qualify for citizenship..

So during the interview when the agent asked if i still had the house.. and why i was still keeping it.. I pushed back.. that was an issue i had addressed in my letter to IRB.. I still answered the question, but i made it clear that i was not happy that my house keeps being brought up as an issue. i can understand the issue if i bought the house while i was a PR.. but i bought the house 5 years before being a PR.. so would this mean my case would be a non-routine case?
 

mogli

Star Member
Feb 28, 2013
101
13
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
I should add that my US house was purchased 5 years prior to moving here yet it seems to be an issue with immigration.. two years ago while crossing the border i had my car searched and the agent noticed letters from my Mortgage provider.. he made me owning property in the US an issue and said he was going to calculate my physical presence here in Canada.. I don't know if he did it on purpose or not but he claimed i had done less than a year in Canada (i had actually done 3 years) from that point he issued a removal order on me.. I appealed and submitted letters from employers, 3 years bank statement, 3 years tax assessments, and anything i could lay hands on. I won the appeal in time to renew my PR card and also qualify for citizenship..

So during the interview when the agent asked if i still had the house.. and why i was still keeping it.. I pushed back.. that was an issue i had addressed in my letter to IRB.. I still answered the question, but i made it clear that i was not happy that my house keeps being brought up as an issue. i can understand the issue if i bought the house while i was a PR.. but i bought the house 5 years before being a PR.. so would this mean my case would be a non-routine case?
Strange indeed, are you saying the border agent questioned you about some mortgage papers that were lying in your car? I think there is more to your story than you are willing to tell. In any case, I won't push you, as it's your right to not reveal any info. All I can say is, you know your circumstances best, and you probably know why this is happening, it doesn't seem likely that it's random. It's unusual for a border agent to question you about mortgage papers lying in your car. Whatever it is, I hope you consult a good attorney to help you finish off your citizenship process. If that is indeed how events played out, then you should not have any issues getting your citizenship, imo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joshua1

bolomanCA

Newbie
Jul 24, 2018
6
0
Strange indeed, are you saying the border agent questioned you about some mortgage papers that were lying in your car? I think there is more to your story than you are willing to tell. In any case, I won't push you, as it's your right to not reveal any info. All I can say is, you know your circumstances best, and you probably know why this is happening, it doesn't seem likely that it's random. It's unusual for a border agent to question you about mortgage papers lying in your car. Whatever it is, I hope you consult a good attorney to help you finish off your citizenship process. If that is indeed how events played out, then you should not have any issues getting your citizenship, imo.
if you think its strange, then we are on the same page.. mortgage papers were what started the questioning.. (i also had the rest of my mail that i had collected).. he asked me if i lived in Canada or in the US.. he went through my mail and said he would have to calculate my physical presence cause according to him it was strange that i maintained a house in the US meanwhile i lived in Canada.. after awhile he came back and said i had failed to maintain residency requirements and was starting a removal order on me.. according to him i had done less than a year in Canada.. (later on during the appeal i noticed that the agent in his statement had missed a lot of my entries and exits). I told him if he gave me access to a computer i could immediately prove his assertions wrong.. i told him i could show him my bank statements and tax assessment showing at least 3 years of presence.. he told me i should show that to the judge during the appeal.. in short the guy was just being a D**K..

during the appeal i pointed out the sloppiness of the agents calculation (which is why i question if it was done on purpose) the guy had me time traveling ( entry dates that were before exit dates and in one case he had me leaving the country twice before re-entering) it was either an extreme case of sloppiness or it was done on purpose.. in all cases I appealed, i pointed out the mistakes, attached a lot of evidence; letters from my employees, taxes, bank statement, transcripts etc.. i won the appeal even before the hearing date.. so yes i was a little pissed off that my house was being brought up again at the citizenship interview.. I told the agent he had everything about my house (when i bought it, and why i can't sell it) on file.. he claimed all the paperwork i had sent during my appeal went to a different department and that he did not have access to it .. fortunately for me i had a copy of the complete file had submitted during the appeal.. so i gave it to him.. he told me he would go through it and i would get a decision shortly.. that was 7 months ago.. no decision yet

that is the complete details of my case
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,298
3,062
. . . a removal order on me.. I appealed and . . .
. . . won the appeal in time to renew my PR card and also qualify for citizenship..
If you had a lawyer helping with the appeal of the 44(1) Report and Removal Order, better to consult with the lawyer.

The situation is almost certainly related to a number of facts and circumstances peculiar to your specific case and immigration history. While it appears there is some suspicion you are or have been gaming the system, which at the least is likely to compromise IRCC's perception of your credibility, your application is still within the general timeline range for routinely processed applications and it is very difficult to forecast what will happen next let alone when.

That is, this could still be favourably resolved relatively soon . . . or encounter some extended delay . . . or get entangled in complex non-routine processing and face particularly lengthy delays or even some challenge as to the outcome itself.

There are numerous particular details which can have an impact in these situations, ranging from how you explained the removal order when you disclosed the fact you had been issued one in your citizenship application, to whether you have had extensive absences from Canada since you applied, among many others in between. Too many to attempt revealing them in a forum like this. Better to consult with a lawyer . . . or, if you are confident in your ability to handle this yourself, to continue waiting and following your case closely (to make sure you do not miss any notices or requests).

The generic ATIP is not likely to reveal much that is illuminating. A custom ATIP might, but those are not easy to draft, and I am not even sure if most lawyers are particularly capable doing this.

After September or so, after a formal webform query which does not generate a satisfactory response, you can seek the input of your MP or make a formal demand for action on your application. The latter is best done by a lawyer, but not necessarily so.

Mostly you probably will be WAITING to see how this unfolds. As previously noted, Montreal has been one of the more notoriously slow local offices historically, and particularly so if and when there are ISSUES.

Ultimately it appears you have made a negative impression on multiple decision-makers, and yep, that can hurt, that can make the process more complicated and difficult. Never good to make a bad impression or have the appearance of gaming the system. But ultimately, as you learned in the process of appealing the 44(1) Report, the actual facts and applicable law is what matters most . . . but it can be inconvenient, a serious pain even, if and when it is necessary to prove all the facts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joshua1