3 places to move to, 1 big decision, help needed!

[beholder69]

Will be moving to Canada from Greece in June, will have an open work permit for 1 year by the IEC program (working holidays) and come with my Canadian wife who is going to sponsor me a few months after we land. We have come to 3 choices regarding the place to land. It will be either Calgary AB, Regina SK or Burlington ON.

Have gathered data on all 3, also saw the latest MoneySense lists (Calgary No1 Big city and overall, 3rd best for new immigrants, Burlington No1 mid sized city, 3rd overall, 1st for new immigrants, Regina 6th mid-sized, 17th overall). Apparently all of them have significant growth and among the lowest unemployment rates in Canada.

Have found pros and cons in all of them (big con for Regina the crime rate, which is the big pro for Burlington and so on) but bearing in mind we'll be looking for survival jobs at first, me with more limited options due to a herniated disk which doesn't help me a lot in standing jobs, which in your experience/view is the most preferable?

It's certain that any of the 3 will be better than where we live now, but we are in a very difficult situation here, so the choice will have a great impact on our lives. Of course the size of Calgary can be both a pro and a con but mostly we are interested in where we might be able to find jobs easier, have more options and a relatively low cost of living compared to salaries paid.

*Any* input, even if it just an opinion without experience with any of the 3 cities will be greatly appreciated, as it's the only thing left to take care of!

 

[Leon]

Before you decide where you will settle, why don't you look for jobs first? Try to set up some interviews before you go. If you can't afford to travel and look for jobs, then pick the city where your job search seems to show the most opportunities.

Something that may help you pick.. Regina is in Saskatchewan and it's flat there. Very flat. Some people find that boring but I find that it shows you more sky so I wouldn't mind that. Calgary is close to the mountains. You can go skiing or hiking. Burlington is by a lake, close to Toronto, close to Niagara falls and close to the US border.

Burlington like Toronto is probably warmer in winter and hotter in summer than either Regina or Calgary. In Calgary it gets very cold in the winter. Being from Greece, you might like Ontario better.

Ontario has 7% provincial sales tax, Saskatchewan has 5% and Alberta doesn't. Saskatchewan has the cheapest car insurance because they have a different system for that. Ontario will make you wait 3 months for health care.

Burlington and Regina are towns of 200,000 people. Calgary is a city of 1 million.

I hope that helps you pick.

 

[beholder69]

Thank you Leon for your fast answer, very helpful as always!

Knew some of the things you mentioned but others were new to me, like the cheaper car insurance in Sask. I was also not aware that there is a delay in health services in ON, this is certainly very important.

Since we'd be looking for so called survival jobs, I'd feel more comfortable searching for a job there, as I don't think any employer for such a job will be in such need that he'd be interested in setting up an interview remotely. Seems like all 3 cities have a similar profile if you list all the pros and cons of each, so the ease of finding a job will make the most difference.

Have already had a quick look at job sites, seems like all 3 have some of interest but will search more when the time approaches. Have previous work experience on web sales and customer service, so something like that would be great. Will have approximately $15000 with us, so it's not urgent to find a job ASAP but it *will* feel like a time bomb when the money is being spent and days pass without finding something.

I realise that life will be much different in a big city (Calgary) when compared to smaller ones, open to both ways of life though. Calgary will probably have the most jobs available but having 5 times the population of the other 2 and almost the same unemployment rates, actually means 5 times more unemployed people than the others, something that's also troubling us.

By the way, had been in Toronto last summer for our honeymoon and noticed the total tax was 13% IIRC, so surprised by the 7% you mentioned. Is there another tax on top of the provincial one on sales and if it is so, is it the same in the other 2 provinces as well?

 

[Leon]

The health care delay is Ontario is just the waiting period to get covered. Once you get covered, it's probably the same everywhere but you would have to figure in that you get travel insurance to cover your possible emergencies for the first 3 months if you go to Ontario.

The sales tax is split into GST and PST. GST is the federal tax so you will have that everywhere. That is 5%. The PST depends on the province and is added to the GST. If you paid 13% total in Ontario, I guess that means they have 8% sales tax now.

 

[beholder69]

Ah, that clears it up then, thank you!

Indeed, total tax was 13% in Toronto, I think it's also something to consider, still quite a difference from the other two. I had looked into Calgary and Regina but Burlington is a new choice as we just discovered it through the new MoneySense list. If there's someone in the forum who lives or has lives there, it would be really helpful to hear their take as well. Can only find older info about it and not so encouraging either.

 

[Bargeld]

Burlington is a great town, but if I was in your shoes and had the choice between Calgary and Burlington, I'd pick whichever gets me a (better) job

 

[beholder69]

Thank you for your input Bargeld!

That's the main thing though, since me and my wife will both be looking for survival jobs and not what we have studied (I'm a mechanical engineer with no experience on this sector and she is a Greek philologist), it's a matter of which city will give us the highest chance of finding a relatively well paid survival job quicker and easier. Online listings don't show a big difference, there seem to be jobs in all 3 cities, Calgary has the most but the most unemployed people as well (as in actual number of people). Seems like a very hard choice at the moment, it's like we are going to pick it randomly.

If in Burlington it's easy to find a survival job and the cost of living is at a good level, then it has the advantages of better weather, easier and cheaper flights to and from Greece and low crime rates but really don't know if it has enough opportunities for us.

Calgary has certainly more opportunities but more people searching as well, weather is a con, amenities a plus.

Regina seems well balanced but crime rates are high.

 

[Korea2Canada]

Calgary is best place jobs wise.

 

[Bargeld]

If you don't mind the drive (surely driving up the QEW and 403 are a hassle as are driving on any 400 series freeway in the GTA during commute time) Burlington is good, and it's between Toronto and Hamilton. The weather is okay, but as someone who came from California, I prefer the dry air of Calgary in the summer to the somewhat humid Burlington air. Calgary also tends to be more temperate in it's weather, Burlington and that whole section of Ontario are rolling a dice as to what you get, since they can easily get volatile cold weather from the arctic or volatile humid warm aggressive storms from tornado alley USA. Job-wise, the GTA (I'd sort of include Burlington in that) has by far the most opportunities, but I'm in the process of trying to get my wife on board with moving to Calgary or Lethbridge if I score another job there.

IMO the most painful part of being near the GTA is the traffic and the bad drivers, especially from towns like Brampton.

 

[on-hold]

If your wife is a Greek philologist, then there is nowhere for her but southern Ontario -- that is the only place in Canada that has a dense collection of universities where her skills might be useful. What are you going to do if you go to Calgary and the University of Calgary says they don't have any openings and they won't next year either? It is not a very good institution . . . The Golden Horseshoe has U of T, Queens, McMaster, Guelph, UWO, Waterloo, York, and many more. Even adjunct teaching would be better for your wife than a survival job, since it might lead to more.

As for yourself, you should look into whether you need a professional certification -- if you do, then look at whether this is provincial or federal. If it's provincial, then compare the provinces. Alberta and Saskatchewan are probably good places for you to find work, but if you have to be certified and aren't, that doesn't help very much.

And just out of curiosity, why did you choose Calgary but not Edmonton, and Regina but not Saskatoon? Since your wife is in a rarefied field, few jobs but few specialists, she should contact every university in Canada and see if they need adjunct Greek philologists. Why move anywhere first?

 

[on-hold]

Also, remember that the 'highest crime rate in Canada' is still in Canada I'm from the states, moved to a seedy part of Edmonton, and haven't had any problems at all. Most crime is committed against people who are involved in it somehow, Canadian cities are not generally the scene of random violence. My recommendation is that you do not overthink this move -- the only thing that matters is work. If you can get a job before you jump, then go where that job is. If you can't, then go to the place where a good job market and cheap apartments will keep you from feeling immediate, intense pressure. Don't waste your time humming and hawing about the climate here, the crime rate there -- it's all cold and crime is the last thing you need to be factoring in. Basically, I'd say this:

Toronto area has everything, including expensive housing and long commutes, quite cold
Saskatchewan's cities are small and have a lot of jobs and cheap housing and bitter, bitter cold
Alberta's cities are bigger and have a lot of jobs and less cheap housing and a government that's cutting back right now, not as cold as Sask.

 

[Leon]

In the seedy parts of Edmonton, you may get mugged if you look like you can't take care of yourself. I never had a problem but I met a young woman who had been mugged 3 times in one year. After that, she went to an outdoor store and got herself some bear spray. It's probably illegal to use on people but she said she had successfully defended herself. Spray and run, she said. Somebody who was going to mug you will probably not try to press charges against you at the police station.

Violent crime, shootings and things like that is mostly criminals doing onto each other.

However, before you move to a seedy neighbourhood by mistake, when you are looking for an apartment, visit gas stations and convenience stores nearby and ask them how it is. They will know if it is safe to walk home after a late night shift and they have nothing to gain by lying to you.

 

[thomas78]

Ah, that clears it up then, thank you!

Indeed, total tax was 13% in Toronto, I think it's also something to consider, still quite a difference from the other two. I had looked into Calgary and Regina but Burlington is a new choice as we just discovered it through the new MoneySense list. If there's someone in the forum who lives or has lives there, it would be really helpful to hear their take as well. Can only find older info about it and not so encouraging either.

Burlington is a small place. Its a favorite place for retirement. The number of business establishments (shops and restaurants) are very less. Frequency of transit bus is very less and expensive too. renting houses or apartments are very expensive. Basements are not common here. Healthcare wait times at hospital is worse. weather is good. Finding jobs would be difficult. Its super expensive for day to day needs because there are no ethnic shops or other options. there are only big retailers like canadian tire, superstore,fortinos,longos, best buy, walmart, future shop etc... competitive asian retailers are not in burlington.

 

[beholder69]

Thanks again everyone, I assure you that all points are taken into account! 8)

@ on-hold: Valid points there but as strange as it may sound, we are not ready to get jobs in our profession. My wife is Canadian and knows English but she hasn't practiced it at all for many years, so won't be nearly as fluent as it would be required in a University at first, so she feels more comfortable working at a survival job until she gets used to it and improves herself. An alternative would be some lessons at a Greek school, have made some contacts but the hours are only a few, so even if she does it, she will have to find a full time job as well.

As for me, I might have the degree but the certification is a very long process, I have zero experience on the field and let's face it, we don't have the best institutions over here, so I don't feel nearly as qualified to pass the required tests nor work on that sector for that matter. Didn't study Mech. Eng. because I liked it, it's the system here that kinds of puts you in a lottery draw and you study whatever luck brings to you.

Might check a bridge program or something like that in the future but not yet, will happily settle with a survival job at first, both of us. It will mean more money for us than we'll ever see here and although Greece has cheaper rents and transit, all other goods and services are at similar prices or higher than in Canada. Couple this with a basic salary of 480 Euros (620 CAD) per month and there you have it...

As for the cities... to be honest whichever we choose is going to be 1000 times better than over here in all aspects. You're right about the crime rates, shouldn't be a major factor but over here it is, as we have a lot of crime. Last year we had over 90000 incidents in Athens, sure, there are 6 million residents here but the area is significantly smaller than this of Calgary, so you witness crimes in daylight, day in day out, would really be refreshing not worrying when walking down the streets!

I realize there is more to a city than what you can find on the net, the feel, the atmosphere, people's attitude etc but all I can get now is numbers and statistics and if looking at those, Calgary wins over Edmonton and Regina over Saskatoon, marginally but almost in all parameters. Have also checked people's comments out and they seemed more happy with those two. If you have any other info or opinion, I'd be happy to hear it out.

@ thomas: Very interesting points, quite contradictory to the data I've seen on the city, it has been listed as top place for immigrants, with very low unemployment and significant growth. Not sure of what the real status is apparently, just saying what I've found.

 

[jokulhaup]

Does weather matter to you at all? Burlington has the warmest climate of the three (downside being hot and sticky summers). Regina has the most severe winters and Calgary has the coolest summers.