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210,930 Citizenship Grant Applications PENDING - including 42,000 awaiting citizenship ceremony and 87,000 awaiting citizenship test (as of May 2020)

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,278
3,038
And now with the current 210,000 pending applications, what is the monthly average of completed cases and when would the pace increase back to the pre-covid levels? In absence of communication from IRCC, We can only estimate the timeline for clearance of the backlog
So the roller-coaster is climbing its first hill, chugging up the track very slowly . . . would it make sense to calculate its speed at this stage and based on that estimate how long it will take to reach the end of the ride? No. No where near close.

We are in the midst of a very serious crisis and unprecedented efforts to navigate our way forward.

IRCC offers timeline information for citizenship applications (different methods are used for different processes) based on how long it took to process most (meaning at least one more than half) *routinely* processed applications during a previous YEAR's time. Even that, even in normal times, tends to be less informative than is helpful (in the past, CIC used to provide information about how long it took to process 20%, 50%, and 80% of cases, which offered significantly more insight into the variability of timelines for different individuals).

But we are no longer anywhere near normal times. How things have gone in prior years offers little insight into how things will go in the next year or two.

So, any effort to RATIONALLY, REASONABLY estimate how long current and new citizenship applications will take to process and reach the oath, will itself have to WAIT . . . first, to WAIT long enough for IRCC to address and adapt and adopt revised methodologies, which it is clear they are engaged in doing (that is, wait until, at the least, this particular roller-coaster has reached the summit of the first big hill, so to say) . . . and then WAIT to see how things go after substantial efforts have been implemented to facilitate application processing notwithstanding the burdens and hurdles this crisis imposes. It will take awhile. A year? Maybe longer.

Measuring the speed of things now, at the steepest grade in the first hill, and presenting an estimate of how long things might take based on that, is outright MISINFORMATION. It does border on fear-mongering.


Many designations globally including many university exams are conducted online. If these can be covered, I am sure a solution through an external provider can be found. If professional exams which determine careers can be managed this way conducting a 20 question citizenship test online will not end the world. IRCC can outsource this to an external provider and the applicant can bear the cost.
And of course, all indications point in the direction of IRCC exploring, analyzing, designing, testing, and implementing methodologies which will enable it to at least partially resume processing, in the relative near term (with some real progress, perhaps, by the end of the year, though perhaps not until early next YEAR), anticipating also resuming near normal processing eventually (hopefully by some time later in the next year). This will take time.

Which will not give those chanting the "are we there yet?" refrain what, it seems, they want, which is more akin to immediate gratification.

There is little or no immediate gratification in the forecast.


. What the hell do you have to lose by sending an email or note to your MP on the issue? This is Canada, they aren't going to shut down your application out of spite for bugging them or have you sent to the Gulags.
True. But most Canadians, including Canadian PRs who are on a path to become Canadian-citizens-in-fact (not in getting citizenship just for the status and passport), take into consideration a lot, lot more than what they individually have at stake. That is, what more than a few here are concerned about is not their own personal interests but the impact on others as well.

It may be mere coincidence, despite the smell, but it seems that more than a few of those most adamantly pressing the government to give citizenship application processing a higher priority have motivation rooted in personal international travel needs or expectations. Not exactly what looms large when sociologists catalog attributes of good "citizenship."

Otherwise, with isolated exceptions, there is no rush. And those whose approach is more citizen-in-practice, not so much what-is-in-it-for-me, readily recognize that MPs, MPPs, government staff, and local government leaders and officials, have a lot on their plate right now dealing with no shortage of problems in providing essential services and engaging in efforts to otherwise balance protecting the public's health during a pandemic while trying to help the country resume social, economic, political, and educational activities, struggling to avoid a major and potentially catastrophic breakdown. (There seems to be a lot of I-ain't-suffering so this cannot really be that big a crisis, so what's the problem, attitude these days; make no mistake, Covid-19 is a crisis, worldwide in scope, potentially catastrophic but for extensive and intensive measures to navigate the country through this storm. Time for many to emerge from their narcissistic bubbles and see the reality beyond self-interest.)

There are reports about other countries doing better with this or that, including immigration and citizenship. There are, however, plenty of reports about other countries doing a lot, lot worse. This forum has seen reports about how the U.S. is handling some of the citizenship stuff SUPPOSEDLY better than Canada, but there is no doubt, the U.S. is currently not a laudable example of immigration-related policies, not even close, and otherwise the U.S. is among those countries whose performance in this pandemic ranks at the poorest end of the scale, and perhaps is either the worst or next to the worst (Brazil seems on track for its indigenous populations to suffer on a near genocide scale).

Canada has some unique characteristics which pose particular challenges and present particular opportunities, making international comparisons tricky. Despite those few here who gratuitously insult Canadians whose vocation is in service to Canadian immigrants, the odds are good that IRCC personnel are doing their best to address the current crisis and get services back on track as much as they reasonably can. And the majority of qualified citizenship applicants can probably be confident that despite the setbacks and problems, IRCC will pursue its mandate dutifully and in due course. Which, unfortunately, is going to take a good long while given the situation.


As I have said elsewhere, I am confident that scores and scores recognize the nature of these times and are being patient, doing their part to help not hinder. I applaud them. I am confident that many, probably most visitors to this forum, and most participants, belong to this latter group. Those who know and behave like we are all in this together. And again, I want to acknowledge them, their patience, their fortitude, their commitment to becoming citizens in fact not just in status.
 

jc94

Hero Member
Mar 14, 2016
830
163
Prior to Covid-19 lockdown, I read in some of these forums that Scarborough office was handling 600 cases per week. That's about 2,400 per month.
Hopefully, Canada-wide, the pre Covid-19 figures would may have been about 8,000 to 10,000 per month . So about less than 21 to 24 months to clear the backlog of 210,000 during pre-covid times

And now with the current 210,000 pending applications, what is the monthly average of completed cases and when would the pace increase back to the pre-covid levels? In absence of communication from IRCC, We can only estimate the timeline for clearance of the backlog

Nevertheless, I agree that senior forum members have more experience in these forums
Scarborough (Greater Chinese Cultural Centre) was doing 600 per *day* and 3 or more days a week back in February. Two ceremonies a day each which around 300 people. And I believe it was similar towards the end of last year based on a friends Mom.

I believe this was one of of not the largest ceremonies in Canada. Ones at the test Center in Scarborough were for example much smaller.
 

canvis2006

Champion Member
Dec 27, 2009
2,382
309
Toronto
Visa Office......
Paris, France
NOC Code......
FC4 - PGP
App. Filed.......
May 2009
Doc's Request.
March 2012
File Transfer...
Jan. 2013
Med's Request
May 2013
Passport Req..
July 2013
VISA ISSUED...
August 2013
LANDED..........
Sept 2013
IRCC needs to make some covid19 laws, and simply GRANT citizenship to those who apply.
If they're too scared to do any interaction with public, then just approve/accept/grant the applications and send the certificates to the applicant's home

There is absolutely no sense in making people wait forever, holding their lives and making huge backlogs. Remember the old parental sponsorship backlogs where there was wait time of 5-10 yrs to get Visas. Like this ancient department needs to either stop accepting ALL applications, sort its shit out, shift it all ONLINE and stop with this filling 20 pages of data "paperwork". Only accept or bring people here when you can EFFICIENTLY process their applications
Maybe hire EDUCATED people who can do more than "check for completion" and "input data into the old computers" and make it efficient and remove all the stupid delay tactics.

You upset people on every step and then expect loyalty and goodness from them while they wait years for their families, status etc ??
No wonder the smart people leave after 3-4 yrs after they get the booklet/passport. With massive unemployment and job losses and reduced wages, and no in-person instruction at colleges/univerisites.........canada will lose revenue and good people. And make those already here waiting into bitter citizens.
It's 2020 yet this department still runs as if its 1950's. Clients can even get realtime info on applications. It takes DAYS and/or MONTHS to even get a reply to their inquiry......

If Canada/IRCC can't adapt and become better, it should ACTIVELY put that on its website and tell people not to waste their time/money/effort and maybe go elsewhere with their skills,education etc. Don't bring people here if you can't handle their workload/needs/demands/applications etc. I hope those visa students choose other countries instead of lame slow duck CIC which keeps them in the dark. Go check twitter of IRCC how nobody gets answers to their issues at all from this.

I'm already citizen from years ago but even now seeing and hearing about the slowness, the incompetency and laziness of this IRCC makes me feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with this department in any way
 

hotshot45890

Star Member
Jun 29, 2020
102
106
I still don't understand how they can collect all sorts of input data online for PR but citizenship you still have to do paper application which in current timing is taking 6 months if not more just to open. It is not complex data and is very simple to create forms and collect similar to the infrastructure they already have set-up for their PR processing and applications.

Also, they need to come out with an overall Covid strategy and communicate it openly. My view was that with the big economic hit and the back log, they would put PR processing on hold for a few months for the economy to settle down and focus the resourcing on people already in Canada and for citizenship processing. But they are still doing new draws and it is beyond me why they are doing this when there are no jobs here with 1/3rd of the working population on CERB and significantly reduced capability to process applications. This is unethical for the potential PRs they are giving hope to and does not make sense when they do not have the resourcing to manage this under Covid. All these recent draws are post-Covid. I would expect the government to present their strategy in this regard why they are doing this and if they will continue how they are planning to resource the department to process all these applications.
 

issteven

Hero Member
Jan 2, 2014
673
201
I still don't understand how they can collect all sorts of input data online for PR but citizenship you still have to do paper application which in current timing is taking 6 months if not more just to open. It is not complex data and is very simple to create forms and collect similar to the infrastructure they already have set-up for their PR processing and applications.

Also, they need to come out with an overall Covid strategy and communicate it openly. My view was that with the big economic hit and the back log, they would put PR processing on hold for a few months for the economy to settle down and focus the resourcing on people already in Canada and for citizenship processing. But they are still doing new draws and it is beyond me why they are doing this when there are no jobs here with 1/3rd of the working population on CERB and significantly reduced capability to process applications. This is unethical for the potential PRs they are giving hope to and does not make sense when they do not have the resourcing to manage this under Covid. All these recent draws are post-Covid. I would expect the government to present their strategy in this regard why they are doing this and if they will continue how they are planning to resource the department to process all these applications.
because PR is more important to importing people into Canada to fill up labor pools for economy and generate taxes for government, while new citizens might leave country.
 

EUK

Hero Member
Feb 22, 2015
639
216
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
because PR is more important to importing people into Canada to fill up labor pools for economy and generate taxes for government, while new citizens might leave country.
Why new citizens would leave the country?
 

hotshot45890

Star Member
Jun 29, 2020
102
106
because PR is more important to importing people into Canada to fill up labor pools for economy and generate taxes for government, while new citizens might leave country.
Under normal scenario economic immigration makes a lot of sense. But when 1/3rd of your population (by some estimates based on CERB numbers) is unemployed shouldn't the priority be first putting these individuals back to work as the economy opens up rather than adding more people to the unemployed pool.

The overall point is of course the ask for the government to present their thinking and strategy so issues like these are discussed and the different stakeholders understand government thinking and strategy.
 
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issteven

Hero Member
Jan 2, 2014
673
201
Why new citizens would leave the country?
for government, current PRs are already generating taxes and providing labors, that's good enough. giving them citizenship won't help generate more taxes, and adding a chance of losing them if they decide to leave after getting citizenship. so for government the benefits of granting PR is much more than granting citizenship, that's why prioritize PR.
 
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SufferInCan

Star Member
Oct 7, 2016
51
17
.............There is absolutely no sense in making people wait forever, holding their lives and making huge backlogs. .....
.............Only accept or bring people here when you can EFFICIENTLY process their applications........
.............Maybe hire EDUCATED people who can do more than "check for completion"......
...........You upset people on every step and then expect loyalty and goodness from them while they wait years for their families, status etc ??
...........No wonder the smart people leave after 3-4 yrs after they get the booklet/passport.......
............And make those already here waiting into bitter citizens.......

............It's 2020 yet this department still runs as if its 1950's. Clients can even get realtime info on applications. It takes DAYS and/or MONTHS to even get a reply to their inquiry......

.............If Canada/IRCC can't adapt and become better, it should ACTIVELY put that on its website and tell people not to waste their time/money/effort and maybe go elsewhere with their skills,education etc. Don't bring people here if you can't handle their workload/needs/demands/applications etc. I hope those visa students choose other countries instead of lame slow duck CIC which keeps them in the dark. Go check twitter of IRCC how nobody gets answers to their issues at all from this........
Many thanks for your post. I quoted some statements that depict how many people, including me, are frustrated and disappointed of the system.
We can definitely send our message. Regardless of the real numbers and credible sources, there is a real problem and unnecessary backlog was built. I suggest contacting the opposition critic of Immigration and Citizenship. She is the MP of Vancouver West, however, we can all contact her from anywhere in Canada out of her role.
Her email is : Jenny.Kwan@parl.gc.ca
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,278
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I agree that it would make no sense to make citizenship applicants wait "forever." There is, however, NOT the slightest reason to think that is going to happen.

Forever? Really? Not being hyperbolic?

Reminder: the vast majority of qualified citizenship applicants, those with an application currently in process and those planning to apply somewhat soon, have NO REASON to APPREHEND delays any longer than what it will take for IRCC to adapt to the still evolving situation, and no reason to doubt the exercise of due diligence in so proceeding. Yes, Covid-19 has thrown a huge wrench into the works and there will be delays, likely some rather lengthy delays. How bad this will be is yet to be determined. Canada has barely begun emerging from the first phase of this pandemic, and it has a beast for a neighbour with ten times as many people and no control at all over this crisis, looming large along nearly FIVE THOUSAND KM of shared border, a looming unpredictable threat.

But it is readily apparent that Canadian officials are busily engaged in figuring out the best course forward. Probably be a bit stumbling for awhile. Probably some unforeseen difficulties still ahead, on top of the many known difficulties now being assessed and addressed. It will be slow going for most, nearly all.

For those who are demanding a comprehensive "Covid-19 strategy" NOW, let's be clear, it is not only hard but typically foolish to take a swing at the ball before the pitch is delivered. We are barely into this Covid-19 thing yet (pitcher barely into the wind-up, to continue the baseball analogy). What has been implemented so far falls under the rubric of emergency preventative measures, as best we as a nation and society can figure things out. Again, it is readily apparent that Canadian officials are busily engaged in figuring out the best course forward, in regards to many, many aspects of governing. Probably be a bit stumbling for awhile. Maybe a fairly long while. Probably some unforeseen difficulties still ahead, on top of the many known difficulties now being assessed and addressed. We are in crisis mode. For real.

Posts suggesting that Canadian officials are indifferent, incompetent, or are otherwise likely to callously allow qualified citizenship applicants suffer for a lot longer than the situation requires are indeed fear-mongering. No, citizenship applicants will NOT be required to "wait forever."

For a large number of applicants, sure, probably OK to put this one on the shelf for awhile and focus on other things (and, indeed, most of us have plenty of other things to focus on these days . . . especially those of us who are operating our own small businesses). Maybe revisit news about the timeline late in the year, or early NEXT year. Hopefully there will be real progress in navigating through this crisis by early NEXT YEAR, and after that progress in getting things back on a more timely track.
 

amrelroby

Star Member
Jul 13, 2012
50
43
IRCC needs to make some covid19 laws, and simply GRANT citizenship to those who apply.
If they're too scared to do any interaction with public, then just approve/accept/grant the applications and send the certificates to the applicant's home

There is absolutely no sense in making people wait forever, holding their lives and making huge backlogs. Remember the old parental sponsorship backlogs where there was wait time of 5-10 yrs to get Visas. Like this ancient department needs to either stop accepting ALL applications, sort its shit out, shift it all ONLINE and stop with this filling 20 pages of data "paperwork". Only accept or bring people here when you can EFFICIENTLY process their applications
Maybe hire EDUCATED people who can do more than "check for completion" and "input data into the old computers" and make it efficient and remove all the stupid delay tactics.

You upset people on every step and then expect loyalty and goodness from them while they wait years for their families, status etc ??
No wonder the smart people leave after 3-4 yrs after they get the booklet/passport. With massive unemployment and job losses and reduced wages, and no in-person instruction at colleges/univerisites.........canada will lose revenue and good people. And make those already here waiting into bitter citizens.
It's 2020 yet this department still runs as if its 1950's. Clients can even get realtime info on applications. It takes DAYS and/or MONTHS to even get a reply to their inquiry......

If Canada/IRCC can't adapt and become better, it should ACTIVELY put that on its website and tell people not to waste their time/money/effort and maybe go elsewhere with their skills,education etc. Don't bring people here if you can't handle their workload/needs/demands/applications etc. I hope those visa students choose other countries instead of lame slow duck CIC which keeps them in the dark. Go check twitter of IRCC how nobody gets answers to their issues at all from this.

I'm already citizen from years ago but even now seeing and hearing about the slowness, the incompetency and laziness of this IRCC makes me feel sorry for anyone who has to deal with this department in any way
The more I read about horror stories caused by the complete paralysis and incompetency of IRCC, the more I wonder how much changes are needed to reform this institution. I think the only hope is that people actively push for reforms. This recent crisis just exposed how much the system is biased against immigrants. There was always some kind of institutional/systematic discrimination against immigrants and an attitude that can be described that immigrants are lucky to be here and they should shut up and do not question the system. I hope more immigrants who become citizens remember this suffering with IRCC and push for reforms.
 
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Wash an

Hero Member
Oct 20, 2013
760
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Monthly Comparison: New Citizens this year vs last year.

Mon = 2019 | 2020
------------------------
Jan = 22540 | 24788
Feb = 18774 | 26720
Mar = 22158 | 9438
Apr = 18930 | 2
May = 24502 | 53
------------------------
Tot = 106,904 | 61,001

2.5 months effectively lost plus counting and 46K applications shortfall from last year in 5 months.