Left Canada after applying for citizenship. Received employment insurance before applying for citizenship. Entering Canada with an expired PR card.

[Orgcom]

Hi guys.
I decided to share my story. It might help to answer some questions that people here ask.

My timeline:

Montreal office
Application mailed: Sep 2019.
Scheduled for test: March 2020. Canceled due to COVID-19.
Online test: June 2021.
DM: July 2021
Online Oath: Nov 2021

No FP, PP, or interview.

- Lived in Canada for exactly 1098 days before applying. During this time I had left Canada only once (~one week) for vacation.
- For 9 months prior to applying I was on employment insurance.
- 3 days after mailing the application, I drove to the US to start a new job (J1 visa). Before doing that, I contaced IRCC by phone and had this answer: "As long as you have somebody do receive mails from us and can come back quickly if called, you can leave Canada." While my application was in process, (for 2 years) I came to Canada only for the online test and oath.
- My PR card expired in Oct 2021. I applied for the new one in March 2021. It was approved and sent to a local office for pick-up (GCMS notes said) but I never received an invitation. When I was driving for the oath, Nov 2021, the border officer asked for my card. I said that it had expired. He said: "Doesn't matter, give me your passport and the expired card." I did. He asked me a few questions and let me go. At that time I was physically present in Canada for 2 years and 9 months during the last 5 years, so my RO was fine.
- I always had the Canadien address (of my friends) on file at IRCC.

I hope my case will help some people.
Every case is different, so please do not expect that your case will be as simple as mine if you try to repeat it.

Good luck!

 

[Fae7]

Hi guys.
I decided to share my story. It might help to answer some questions that people here ask.

My timeline:

Montreal office
Application mailed: Sep 2019.
Scheduled for test: March 2020. Canceled due to COVID-19.
Online test: June 2021.
DM: July 2021
Online Oath: Nov 2021

No FP, PP, or interview.

- Lived in Canada for exactly 1098 days before applying. During this time I had left Canada only once (~one week) for vacation.
- For 9 months prior to applying I was on employment insurance.
- 3 days after mailing the application, I drove to the US to start a new job (J1 visa). Before doing that, I contaced IRCC by phone and had this answer: "As long as you have somebody do receive mails from us and can come back quickly if called, you can leave Canada." While my application was in process, (for 2 years) I came to Canada only for the online test and oath.
- My PR card expired in Oct 2021. I applied for the new one in March 2021. It was approved and sent to a local office for pick-up (GCMS notes said) but I never received an invitation. When I was driving for the oath, Nov 2021, the border officer asked for my card. I said that it had expired. He said: "Doesn't matter, give me your passport and the expired card." I did. He asked me a few questions and let me go. At that time I was physically present in Canada for 2 years and 9 months during the last 5 years, so my RO was fine.
- I always had the Canadien address (of my friends) on file at IRCC.

I hope my case will help some people.
Every case is different, so please do not expect that your case will be as simple as mine if you try to repeat it.

Good luck!

Thank you for sharing ! Did you change your address to a US address or did you leave it as a Canadian address ?
Thanks a lot for your help !

 

[Orgcom]

Thank you for sharing ! Did you change your address to a US address or did you leave it as a Canadian address ?
Thanks a lot for your help !

"- I always had the Canadien address (of my friends) on file at IRCC."

 

[maverick_bigapple]

"- I always had the Canadien address (of my friends) on file at IRCC."

Hi @Orgcom ,

Considering that I find myself in a similar situation (moving to the States to be with my spouse), a couple of questions I have follow-

(i) Did you maintain any residential ties (other than a Canadian address - friends) with Canada post your departure in 2019?
(ii) Did you inform the CRA that you were leaving Canada (non-resident for tax purposes), or did you land up paying taxes both in the US and Canada?
(iii) For the residency obligation, you mentioned that you were physically present in Canada for 2 years and 9 months during the last 5 years. How do you compute that period? Is it 5 years back from the date of the oath or the date when you sent the citizenship application?
(iv) Were you asked to fill out a Residency Questionnaire (RQ) to document your absence as your application was processed?
(v) During the oath were you asked about your absence / stay out of Canada?
(vi) Does your status (VISAs, green card et al) in the US make a difference to the application?

Many thanks!
NK

 

[Orgcom]

(i) Did you maintain any residential ties (other than a Canadian address - friends) with Canada post your departure in 2019?
- Car with Quebec registration, Quebec driver's license, bank checking account. Canceled my medical card.

(ii) Did you inform the CRA that you were leaving Canada (non-resident for tax purposes), or did you land up paying taxes both in the US and Canada?
- Yes. Filled in and mailed the residency determination form. CRA replied that I'm considered a non-resident for tax purposes, even though I mentioned that I was going to keep my car with a Canadien plate and the Quebec driver's license.

(iii) For the residency obligation, you mentioned that you were physically present in Canada for 2 years and 9 months during the last 5 years. How do you compute that period? Is it 5 years back from the date of the oath or the date when you sent the citizenship application?
I was physically present in Canada for 2.9 years (during the preceding 5 years) when I was going to take the oath (in Nov 2021). At a time when my citizenship application was mailed, I had been in Canada for 1098 days (during the preceding 5 years) (in Sep 2019).

(iv) Were you asked to fill out a Residency Questionnaire (RQ) to document your absence as your application was processed?
No. Also no FP, PP, or interview.

(v) During the oath were you asked about your absence / stay out of Canada?
No. I was only asked about my current location at the time of the oath (I was in Montreal).
They asked me to show my driver's license which had a sticker of the address of my friends.

(vi) Does your status (VISAs, green card et al) in the US make a difference to the application?
I don't know about the green card. My J1 visa implies that I'm temporarily in the US.

 

[cooldoc80]

Thanks very informative, when you came back for oath and test , did anybody asked you about your address in canada( your friend address) i’m assuming they require an ID before test and citizenship like driver license ? Shouldnt it show the same address you are living at ( in this case your friend address)?

thanks

 

[ybjianada]

I think some people on this forum will have an aneurysm after hearing your story, haha.

 

[Orgcom]

Thanks very informative, when you came back for oath and test , did anybody asked you about your address in canada( your friend address) i’m assuming they require an ID before test and citizenship like driver license ? Shouldnt it show the same address you are living at ( in this case your friend address)?

thanks

(v) During the oath were you asked about your absence / stay out of Canada?
No. I was only asked about my current location at the time of the oath (I was in Montreal).
They asked me to show my driver's license which had a sticker of the address of my friends.

For the test, I showed my driver's license (DL). At this time, it had my old address on the front (the new friend's address was present as a sticker on the back of the DL), but I showed only the front of the DL.

During the oath, the agent also asked me to show the back of the DL. She wanted to make sure that the address on file is equal to the address on DL (and it was in my case).

 

[Fae7]

(v) During the oath were you asked about your absence / stay out of Canada?
No. I was only asked about my current location at the time of the oath (I was in Montreal).
They asked me to show my driver's license which had a sticker of the address of my friends.

For the test, I showed my driver's license (DL). At this time, it had my old address on the front (the new friend's address was present as a sticker on the back of the DL), but I showed only the front of the DL.

During the oath, the agent also asked me to show the back of the DL. She wanted to make sure that the address on file is equal to the address on DL (and it was in my case).

So the address on file needs to be the same as the address on your ID ?
but can we show passport and PR? The passport and the PR don’t have the address
Thank you

 

[Orgcom]

So the address on file needs to be the same as the address on your ID ?
but can we show passport and PR? The passport and the PR don’t have the address
Thank you

I'm giving here the details of my case.

If I remember correctly, for the oath they request you to have 2 pieces of ID in addition to the PR card. You can ask people around if having a PR card and a passport will be enough. During my oath, they looked at my PR card (which was expired, so I didn't have to cut it and thus kept it as a souvenir) and driver's license.

 

[Fae7]

I'm giving here the details of my case.

If I remember correctly, for the oath they request you to have 2 pieces of ID in addition to the PR card. You can ask people around if having a PR card and a passport will be enough. During my oath, they looked at my PR card (which was expired, so I didn't have to cut it and thus kept it as a souvenir) and driver's license.

Thank you for your help! Is the address on your drivers license the same as the one you gave to IRCC or is it different ?

 

[Orgcom]

Thank you for your help! Is the address on your drivers license the same as the one you gave to IRCC or is it different ?

same

 

[cooldoc80]

(v) During the oath were you asked about your absence / stay out of Canada?
No. I was only asked about my current location at the time of the oath (I was in Montreal).
They asked me to show my driver's license which had a sticker of the address of my friends.

For the test, I showed my driver's license (DL). At this time, it had my old address on the front (the new friend's address was present as a sticker on the back of the DL), but I showed only the front of the DL.

During the oath, the agent also asked me to show the back of the DL. She wanted to make sure that the address on file is equal to the address on DL (and it was in my case).

Thanks again for the helpful tips, could you please explain what do you mean by sticker on license? I though once you change the address online they send you a new ID with the new address?

For the citizenship certificate , i’m assuming they mailed it to your firend address and then he ship it to you ? is that the case? And if so would you apply for passport in america?

all the best, really appreciarte your insights

 

[Orgcom]

Thanks again for the helpful tips, could you please explain what do you mean by sticker on license? I though once you change the address online they send you a new ID with the new address?
In NY, they send you a new license as soon as you update your address. In QC though they send you a paper sticker with new address. This sticker you must attach to the back of your license.

For the citizenship certificate , i’m assuming they mailed it to your firend address and then he ship it to you ? is that the case? And if so would you apply for passport in america?
Yes, as you described. I already applied for the passport last week.

all the best, really appreciarte your insights
[/QUOTE]

 

[dpenabill]

At the risk of reviving abuse . . .

I referenced the experience posted by @Orgcom, back on November 26th, in a different thread, where I said:

Overall the available information and the current flow of anecdotal reporting is entirely consistent with all of this. From the credible report by @Dr kbknaidu about actually being asked questions related to settling in Canada, to the smooth sailing, no problem report by @Orgcom and, it appears (given report of a Decision Made) almost smooth sailing reported by @hayden314 . . .

In that post I was emphasizing that there is no risk of a negative outcome, for a citizenship application,

. . . for applicants living abroad or otherwise on their way abroad who "meet the requirements, and can PROVE they do, no problem (other than potential delays due to non-routine processing)."

The context for making those observations, however, was nonetheless cautionary, more or less alerting those potentially affected that there might be some curves or steep grades in the road ahead, or it might be slippery when wet. In particular, as I have occasionally reminded applicants and prospective applicants, it is a good idea to not casually dismiss or disregard the potential inconvenience of non-routine processing, the risk for which can increase in certain circumstances (including appearances).

There were two important aspects in the report by @Orgcom I did not address at that time. One is the very accurate note by @Orgcom that:

Every case is different, so please do not expect that your case will be as simple as mine if you try to repeat it.

That warrants emphasizing: that report is just one individual's experience, illustrating how things can go, even how things might go, but NOT any assurance that is how things will go for someone else in a similar situation.

Which brings this to the aspect of that report I have not previously addressed. Perhaps the elephant in the room. The truthfulness, or lack thereof, of representations made to IRCC (overtly or by omission) as to the applicant's residential address. I will try to not belabor the issue here. The applicant signs a verification they will notify IRCC if any of the information in the application has changed. While not always, many applicants are asked questions prior to taking the oath which one way or another are asking about the applicant's current address. It is readily apparent that many who change their address, who do not actually reside at the address listed as their residential address in the application, do not notify IRCC. Some actually engage in giving overtly deceptive answers to avoid revealing a change in address to a location outside Canada. And it appears this can significantly reduce the risk of non-routine processing. This appears to be quite common, and commonly successful.

I will leave that with just this: getting away with it is NO assurance it is OK. What the risks are, if any, I'll leave that side of the equation alone.

There is a question worth asking, however, and it is a question that goes to heart of what brought this thread back to life, the question lurking behind the query posed here by @Fae7 and behind several other queries posed recently be @Fae7 in other threads, including "Citizenship test outside Canada," "Application on hold?" "citizenship interview from outside of Canada," and in some older posts as well.

The question lurking behind those queries: why do some applicants who go abroad after applying go out of their way to avoid revealing to IRCC they are residing abroad?

No rocket science necessary to map the trajectory of this query. Where it comes from. Where it aims. Their instincts are probably on target. The risks in that approach, well, as I noted, I will leave that side of the equation alone.

For @Fae7 . . .

. . . you have been asking for reassurance that things will go OK for you if you leave Canada before processing your citizenship application is completed. There are many, many individual factors that can have an influence on how things go for a particular person. No one can reliably assure you that things will go OK. In contrast there is no reason to be excessively worried.

For those who go abroad to stay for extended periods of time after applying, there are plenty of anecdotal reports about things going OK. . . and such reports even go back to when CIC, under Harper, was more aggressively screening such applicants. There is, however, no shortage of reports going the other direction, albeit less so in recent years (the likely reason for this is a complicated tangent not worth going down here). More saliently, there are plenty of indications many who do go abroad continue to avoid openly disclosing to IRCC their actual situation, suggesting at least they apprehend certain risks. So far as I can discern those apprehensions appear to be well founded, but some of us are waiting to see how things go for those who reported doing the virtual citizenship test while abroad compared to those who were in Canada for the test, hoping that might offer some further clues about the extent to which there may or may not continue to be an increased risk of non-routine processing for such applicants.

Summary For @Fae7 . . .

As I have oft noted, for applicants living abroad or otherwise on their way abroad who meet the requirements, and can PROVE they do, the outcome is not in question: they will be granted citizenship (unless something happens to intervene).

There are some rather obvious logistical risks for those abroad (increased risk of not getting notice in time to appear for a test or interview, or the oath, for example; relying on friends or family to forward communications or documents is, obviously, more risky than regularly checking one's own mail box).

There is disagreement in the forum about the nature and extent of procedural risks (delays in processing or non-routine processing, and such). Despite some vehement denials otherwise, depending on the individual's personal circumstances such risks are actually fairly obvious, but we cannot reliably quantify them at this juncture.