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No. Including additional information and evidence in the application will not avoid complex processing.
Another excellent post. I agree with all of it, but especially the line I quote above.
If IRCC has concerns, that takes this back to the comment by @armoured: "If your file is so bad you need 250+ pages, you have a credibility problem." Indeed, if IRCC has concerns, meaning IRCC is questioning whether the PR's physical presence in Canada is less than the PR has declared in the application (in an application declaring RO compliance based on physical presence), there is clearly, at least to some extent, a credibility problem.

I did want to add the following observation.

Originally, I interpreted that quote to mean:

"If your situation is so bad that 250+ pages are necessary for your file, then you have a credibility problem with IRCC." - actually no one can think of a serious, non-contrived example of this. (So it's unproven at best, and I'd go as far as to argue that we can consider it untrue unless and until a counter example is found proving it.)

After lots of back and forth (likely because of my thick skill), I eventually realized that this is closer in meaning to what the author had intended:

"If you think you need 250+ pages, it's a possibility that you may end up creating a credibility problem for yourself with IRCC, and you'd almost certainly cause your application to get delayed even if no credibility issues arise." - which seems quite plausible. Also, we have a real life example of this posted to the forum, so perhaps we'll get an update that provides a data point on this.

But now you've come up with a third meaning:

"if IRCC has concerns, meaning IRCC is questioning whether the PR's physical presence in Canada is less than the PR has declared in the application (in an application declaring RO compliance based on physical presence), there is clearly, at least to some extent, a credibility problem."

In fact, although undoubtably correct, this is quite divorced from the original quote. Here's a hypothetical example,

Say CBSA/CBP records are somehow incomplete and an entry record is missing. However, the timing of that entry is important - if it happened the day the applicant said it did, then the applicant meets RO. But it's possible that the entry that's missing missing from the record say happened a couple months later, putting the applicant below RO.

I think it's reasonable that IRCC then asks the applicant for some proof of documentation of the trip (and applicant is able to provide a copy of a taxi receipt from that day or a copy of the bus ticket, etc). It's technically true that there is "a credibility problem" but it's not the applicant's fault, the issue lies with CBSA's own system for having an incomplete record.

Also, in this hypothetical example, this is at most one or two additional pages needed (upon request by IRCC) - nowhere near the 250 number that was an essential part of the original quote. (Although the earlier statement "Including additional information and evidence in the application will not avoid complex processing." addresses that bit quite well.)

I might just be being overly pedantic here, as your overall post agrees with the middle meaning (thus we're all aligned and in agreement) - I'm just observing that your statement affirming that "a credibility problem, at least to some extent" exists, may be affirming something slightly different than what the author of the quote originally intended.
 
Hi All,
I have a different situation and need some expert advice .. I was in USA when I got PR in 2021 July and moved to Canada in August 2024. I been working in USA and have been tarveling to and fro from canada to USA since Aug 2024. I have recently brought a home in 2025 .. and My original PR card was valid till Sep 2026 and unfortunetly I lost my PR card in Dec 2025 and applied for a new PR card and I got this below email where they are asking me to provide below documents along with ..

""you are being asked to provide proof of your compliance with the residency obligation for the period of 2021/07/02 up to the present day, as well as any humanitarian and compassionate considerations. Please submit the following documents:



q All passports and travel documents held by you, used to enter or leave Canada or other countries since 2021/07/02, whether valid or expired.

q A complete and detailed list of your absences from Canada since 2021/07/02.

q Record of Landing / Confirmation of Permanent Residence.

q Photo identification.

q Any documentary proof of your establishment and ties in Canada such as employment. This may include:

q Employment records (for example T-4’s, employment letters and other work records).

q Schooling/training records (for example reports cards, diplomas, awards).

q Social and community involvement (for example proof of any community involvement, volunteer duties).

q Medical records (for example proof of hospitalization, medical appointments).

q Home/family ties (for example rental and mortgage documents, whereabouts of family members).

q Supporting documents showing that there are compelling and compassionate factors in your personal circumstances that justify keeping your permanent resident status.

I am not sure how I can provide the any humanitarian and compassionate considerations along with
Supporting documents showing that there are compelling and compassionate factors in your personal circumstances that justify keeping your permanent resident status.


I really need help to reply to IRCC with above quetsions. Anyone has faced the similar issue.
 
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Hi All,
I have a different situation and need some expert advice .. I was in USA when I got PR in 2021 July and moved to Canada in August 2024. I been working in USA and have been tarveling to and fro from canada to USA since Aug 2024. I have recently brought a home in 2025 .. and My original PR card was valid till Sep 2026 and unfortunetly I lost my PR card in Dec 2025 and applied for a new PR card and I got this below email where they are asking me to provide below documents along with ..

""you are being asked to provide proof of your compliance with the residency obligation for the period of 2021/07/02 up to the present day, as well as any humanitarian and compassionate considerations. Please submit the following documents:



q All passports and travel documents held by you, used to enter or leave Canada or other countries since 2021/07/02, whether valid or expired.

q A complete and detailed list of your absences from Canada since 2021/07/02.

q Record of Landing / Confirmation of Permanent Residence.

q Photo identification.

q Any documentary proof of your establishment and ties in Canada such as employment. This may include:

q Employment records (for example T-4’s, employment letters and other work records).

q Schooling/training records (for example reports cards, diplomas, awards).

q Social and community involvement (for example proof of any community involvement, volunteer duties).

q Medical records (for example proof of hospitalization, medical appointments).

q Home/family ties (for example rental and mortgage documents, whereabouts of family members).

q Supporting documents showing that there are compelling and compassionate factors in your personal circumstances that justify keeping your permanent resident status.

I am not sure how I can provide the any humanitarian and compassionate considerations along with
Supporting documents showing that there are compelling and compassionate factors in your personal circumstances that justify keeping your permanent resident status.


I really need help to reply to IRCC with above quetsions. Anyone has faced the similar issue.
Please don't just ask the same question in multiple threads. It's the same people mostly reading and posting. Stick to your original thread - you got the advice there. If you need more advice - time to see a lawyer.
 
I am seeking your advice regarding my Canadian PR residency obligation and my planned permanent return to Canada.

I became a PR on 12 March 2023, and my PR card expires on 25 March 2028. Due mainly to overseas employment commitments, my physical presence in Canada so far is approximately 91 days:

  • 12 Mar–1 Apr 2023: 21 days
  • 16 Mar–12 Apr 2024: 28 days
  • 4 Apr–15 May 2026: 42 days
My circumstances have now changed. I have secured a permanent full-time job in Canada and plan to return on 15 September 2026 and reside in Canada continuously. My wife and child are also Canadian PRs and will be residing in Canada.

I understand that, based on my current day count, I may not be able to accumulate 730 days by my fifth PR anniversary in March 2028.

I would appreciate your advice on the following:

  1. What is the risk of a residency-obligation examination or Section 44 report when I enter Canada on 15 September 2026?
  2. If I am admitted without an adverse determination and remain continuously in Canada, can I subsequently meet/cure the residency obligation once I accumulate 730 days within the rolling five-year period?
  3. My PR card expires on 25 March 2028. If I remain in Canada, can I continue living and working as a PR after the card expires and apply for renewal once I have accumulated sufficient qualifying days?
  4. Would my permanent Canadian employment and my wife and child's establishment in Canada be relevant considerations if my residency obligation is examined?
  5. Most importantly, given my circumstances, would you recommend that I return to Canada as soon as possible and remain there continuously?
I would appreciate your assessment of the safest approach to protect my PR status before I travel.
 
I am seeking your advice regarding my Canadian PR residency obligation and my planned permanent return to Canada.

I became a PR on 12 March 2023, and my PR card expires on 25 March 2028. Due mainly to overseas employment commitments, my physical presence in Canada so far is approximately 91 days:

  • 12 Mar–1 Apr 2023: 21 days
  • 16 Mar–12 Apr 2024: 28 days
  • 4 Apr–15 May 2026: 42 days
My circumstances have now changed. I have secured a permanent full-time job in Canada and plan to return on 15 September 2026 and reside in Canada continuously. My wife and child are also Canadian PRs and will be residing in Canada.

I understand that, based on my current day count, I may not be able to accumulate 730 days by my fifth PR anniversary in March 2028.

I would appreciate your advice on the following:

  1. What is the risk of a residency-obligation examination or Section 44 report when I enter Canada on 15 September 2026?
  2. If I am admitted without an adverse determination and remain continuously in Canada, can I subsequently meet/cure the residency obligation once I accumulate 730 days within the rolling five-year period?
  3. My PR card expires on 25 March 2028. If I remain in Canada, can I continue living and working as a PR after the card expires and apply for renewal once I have accumulated sufficient qualifying days?
  4. Would my permanent Canadian employment and my wife and child's establishment in Canada be relevant considerations if my residency obligation is examined?
  5. Most importantly, given my circumstances, would you recommend that I return to Canada as soon as possible and remain there continuously?
I would appreciate your assessment of the safest approach to protect my PR status before I travel.
Easy stuff first:
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
5. Yes.

More difficult questions and to which answers are subjective or 'random':
1. It is a non-zero risk. If when you return you are only about 90 days short, I'd /guess/ the risk of being reported is on the lower side. Non-zero, but not high. Be prepared to at least give /some/ reasons why you did not return earlier - be brief if asked - and hopefully you'll just be waved through or given a verbal warning.

I'm not going to get into possible 'reasons' as to why you did not return earlier - I don't think it's all that useful, just tell the truth, even if the reasons are not the strongest (example of reasons are health, kids' schooling, work, economic uncertainty, delay getting this permanent job, whatever). I say this because I /think/ when the non-compliance is fairly low (as in your case), the specific reasons are less important than having /some/ reasons (if asked), and then the CBSA officer is fairly likely to decide it's not worth pursuing.

If warned: all the more reason to travel outside Canada as little as possible.

4. Your employment: may not help much, but certainly is not a negative - if asked, mention it, and that you are coming to stay. Child's establshment: YMMV, my guess is that not relevant (but if delay occurred due to child's reasons, can be relevant in that context).

Good luck.
 
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Agree with armoured with basically everything, though I have one caution:
More difficult questions and to which answers are subjective or 'random':
1. It is a non-zero risk. If when you return you are only about 90 days short, I'd /guess/ the risk of being reported is on the lower side. Non-zero, but not high. Be prepared to at least give /some/ reasons why you did not return earlier - be brief if asked - and hopefully you'll just be waved through or given a verbal warning.


Good luck.
There is a recent case reported here of someone in a similar situation: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...dency-requirement.877716/page-2#post-11159754

That person is already in Canada and trying to apply for an ID card renewal (so it's IRCC rather than CBSA deciding here) and most importantly that person can still theoretically fulfill RO - as opposed to being 95 days short, but it seems that IRCC already considers this a "non-routine" case.

IRCC has traditionally been stricter on this sort of thing. Even so, I'd wonder if past observations of leniency at the border are still indicative of the near future.
Your employment: may not help much, but certainly is not a negative - if asked, mention it, and that you are coming to stay. Child's establshment: YMMV, my guess is that not relevant (but if delay occurred due to child's reasons, can be relevant in that context).
Now, it doesn't seem like this is the case for you, but if the spouse and child were already living as PRs in Canada - importantly, if the spouse had already met RO - I think this would make a big difference. Leniency seems to be more likely in those cases (likely because a spouse can typically responsor the other spouse even if PR is lost).
 
Agree with armoured with basically everything, though I have one caution:

There is a recent case reported here of someone in a similar situation: https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-i...dency-requirement.877716/page-2#post-11159754

That person is already in Canada and trying to apply for an ID card renewal (so it's IRCC rather than CBSA deciding here) and most importantly that person can still theoretically fulfill RO - as opposed to being 95 days short, but it seems that IRCC already considers this a "non-routine" case.

IRCC has traditionally been stricter on this sort of thing. Even so, I'd wonder if past observations of leniency at the border are still indicative of the near future.
I don't think those cases are remotely comparable. Or at least, only by stretching the sense of comparable. Different applications, different agencies, different implications, different process, different compliance status.

"Slow walking" a PR card renewal for someone who has less than one year in physical presence (how much of which is recent?) has few resource implications and can be (probably was?) effected by simply putting one application into a different pile (eg requires more checks of physical presence).

You've stated that IRCC 'probably will' delay the PR card issuance until the poster has met the 730 days in Canada requirement - I have no knowledge of that but see no reason to think that's true, i.e. it seems to be your conjecture? I don't know. Instead I'd estimate that it /seems/ that PR card renewals that are cutting it close get tossed into a separate procedure that can take 6-12 months, sometimes longer. (It's been three months so ... guess we'll have to wait to find out?)

Plus this is a 'lost card' - sometimes these could result in more checks on their own / procedures to eg cancel the other one and look at circumstances (i.e. is there any chance there is fraudulent usage/conveyance of this lost card?). And it /could/ (speculating here) make IRCC question whether this amounts to an attempt to renew a PR card before the usual expiry timelines (one can usually renew only nine months before) - and if so, does that indicate an intent or desire to renew PR card in order to leave Canada (and possibly benefit from the 'new card probably in compliance' gut reaction at borders? I don't know - plausible concern). [Side note: it does, by the poster in that case's admission, relate to an intent to leave - even if the intent of that desire is to leave for a shorter trip, in actual fact the OP expressly stated that they want the card in order to leave for a period of time that would result in non-compliance. Okay, IRCC doesn't know that, but they do have experience with ... previous cases that can show a pattern that this poster may have matched?]

Again - I still think the risk is non-zero. But I think the case you bring up is NOT analogous in a meaningful way.

In the end though - no idea how much this means in timing for your case, I just don't see the certainty that you did there. Nor the implications for this one.
 
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I don't think those cases are remotely comparable. Or at least, only by stretching the sense of comparable.

Again - I still think the risk is non-zero. But I think the case you bring up is NOT analogous in a meaningful way.
We'll just have to agree to having a difference of opinion here.
Different applications, different agencies, different implications, different process, different compliance status.
Agreed - and already noted in my previous reply.
in actual fact the OP expressly stated that they want the card in order to leave for a period of time that would result in non-compliance.
Hmm. I went back to that thread and didn't see where the OP actually said this. Perhaps you saw a post elsewhere that I missed? (which is likely)
Okay, IRCC doesn't know that, but they do have experience with ... previous cases that can show a pattern that this poster may have matched?]
That would make sense.
You've stated that IRCC 'probably will' delay the PR card issuance until the poster has met the 730 days in Canada requirement - I have no knowledge of that but see no reason to think that's true, i.e. it seems to be your conjecture?
Ah - I might have gotten mixed up between PRTD and PR card handling. I'll... I'll try and update my post on the other thread.
Instead I'd estimate that it /seems/ that PR card renewals that are cutting it close get tossed into a separate procedure that can take 6-12 months, sometimes longer. (It's been three months so ... guess we'll have to wait to find out?)
Agreed. It'd be interesting if we could find out how they handled this - most cases I figure would be naturally resolved by the extra delay (either after 12 months they've caught up and meet RO, or they left Canada for too long and are in breach of RO), but this one would be the exception.
Plus this is a 'lost card' - sometimes these could result in more checks on their own / procedures to eg cancel the other one and look at circumstances (i.e. is there any chance there is fraudulent usage/conveyance of this lost card?). And it /could/ (speculating here) make IRCC question whether this amounts to an attempt to renew a PR card before the usual expiry timelines (one can usually renew only nine months before) - and if so, does that indicate an intent or desire to renew PR card in order to leave Canada (and possibly benefit from the 'new card probably in compliance' gut reaction at borders? I don't know - plausible concern).
Also agreed. A lost card by itself should not make a 'non-routine' case IMVHO - but these other factors do make sense, especially in light of what you wrote above.

In fact, I recall reading a case on canlii some time back. I can't find it now but it involved someone who "accidentally" destroyed his PR card and got a replacement, and later the process to revoke his PR was started. The judge there highlighted the fact that the timing of this was rather odd and suggested that the replacement might have well been designed to ensure validity beyond the end of the usual five year period, allowing the person to potentially return to Canada more easily while increasing the odds that non-compliance with RO might be overlooked - exactly the thing you're speculating about.

And this case was some years ago, so no surprise if the process was tightened in response to that.
In the end though - no idea how much this means in timing for your case, I just don't see the certainty that you did there. Nor the implications for this one.
I called it a caution, not a certainty. Just viewing these recent cases with a bit more pessimism. (And as to why I think things actually getting stricter with one agency has implications for another - you're correct that this isn't to be found purely in the rules or regulations etc. But both agencies are part of the government, and thus both are affected by the larger politics that are at play here - I think you're probably following these sort of things just as closely as I am.)
 
Hmm. I went back to that thread and didn't see where the OP actually said this. Perhaps you saw a post elsewhere that I missed? (which is likely)
Early on, the poster says "can I travel outside Canada and return using a PRTD while still being able to meet my residency obligation by the end of my first five years?", in the context of only having 11 days. I perhaps misinterpreted, but I took that to mean planned to stay longer than 11 days. I now see it could conceivably mean wanted to get a PRTD turned around and return to Canada in 11 days - which we all know is basically fanciful, so would end up out of compliance by the numbers. (Leaving aside issue of whether days between applying for and receiving prtd 'count.')
I called it a caution, not a certainty. Just viewing these recent cases with a bit more pessimism. (And as to why I think things actually getting stricter with one agency has implications for another - you're correct that this isn't to be found purely in the rules or regulations etc. But both agencies are part of the government, and thus both are affected by the larger politics that are at play here - I think you're probably following these sort of things just as closely as I am.)
I don't deny that could be the case and things have tightened somewhat, it seems (although even allowing for that wouldn't change my guess much either). My point though is more based upon CBSA having a different set of issues, staffing, and incentives.

IRCC for a lost card renewal? Individual is in Canada, short of (clear) urgent/emergency situation, there's no rush; they can 'let the file mature' by just waiting. (And thereby let the PR show what their intentions are over time). [Although it's just as likely it got bumped out of the 'routine' renewals that get done quickliy and those have a 3-6 month backlog before much time is spent on it - IDK).

CBSA? It's pretty much a 'write it all up / extra work now' for relatively minor benefit, and for them, a not insignificant chance it gets appealed and the work lost (or even a minister-delegate decides not worth it after seeing the write-up). Up-front work for possibly little gain - and continuous line-ups in secondary that also have to be dealt with, and probably half a dozen cases that are more obvious. The CBSA officer's default 'least work / let the file mature' (let the PR show their intentions over time) position is to give a verbal warning that they might not get so lucky next time, a note to file, and wave them on through. Might the CBSA officer decide that this is just the type of file he should work on, or he does not think the PR credible, and so writes it up? Sure. Just the balance of probabilities based on incentives is low.
 
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