Required proof - do we even stand a chance?

[Craveman]

Hi guys

I'm a newbie on this site and this is my first post. It seems that many of us here are in the same boat: one of uncertainty and hope! Having read quite a few posts so far, I have to wonder if my girlfriend and I stand a chance to actually get into Canada. A little about our backgrounds...

I met my lovely woman in Cambodia while traveling June 2012. She is Canadian and I am South African. We continued to travel together until January 2013 after which we moved back to South Africa. I have been working full time here since February 2013. My girlfriend has been back to Canada (March to June 2013) to pack most of her things, as our intentions were to settle back here in South Africa. I went over in April to visit her in Vancouver and also to meet her friends and family. In June she came back to visit me in South Africa for 3 months and then left again to travel Europe until mid-December. As I've seen most of Europe (I worked and lived in London for 9 years), I stayed behind in South Africa to work and save money. We wanted to get rid of our travel bugs before settling down and start a family. Just for the record, I do not have any criminal records, I'm in good health and a qualified electrician. As I've been away from South Africa for almost 12 years, I decided to give it a year and see how I feel about the country. Unfortunately, I found that it is not the same place I left behind and with the high crime and uncertainty going on, we decided to rather move to Canada. Plan B now is to give Canada a year and then decide on plan C - Australia (I will be able to qualify on the points system and my girlfriend could come over with me).

My concerns at the moment would be providing proof that we are a couple. As we've been traveling for so long, we don't have a lot of paperwork to proof that we are a couple (other than being together in lots of photos). I own a house in South Africa so we have no lease agreements with any landlords, neither do we have a shared bank account, joint bills, etc...Currently, I have a visitors visa for Canada which is valid until November 2017. So, other than lack of proof is also the concerns about funds to support me if I had to move to Canada and being dependent on my girlfriend. I traveled for 2.5 years while she toured for 1.5 years which mean that we've spent most of our savings doing so. A flat in Vancouver can be anything from $800 to $2000 a month which she will then have to cover with her salary, as well as support me! It goes against my grain having being dependent on someone as I have a good profession and would like to contribute to our future together. Therefore I would like to work asap (if that is an option)...

Now that you know a little of our relationship and current situation, what do you think? There are currently so many thoughts running through my mind like:

Do we even stand a chance to get me into Canada as a common-law partner?
If not, would it help if we get married and apply as a spouse?
Should be rather apply out of country or in Canada itself (which would mean me not earning a salary for a long time!)?
Are there any other forms of proof that we can submit like certified letters from people knowing we are in a relationship, life insurance (mine in South Africa with my girlfriend as a beneficiary), etc?
When can I apply for a work visa?

Those are actually just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to questions, although I would rather like to ask you guys to put yourself in our shoes and advise us on the best plan of action. Other than my woman, I also fell in love with Canada as a country - it is truly beautiful! I had to opportunity to paddle the Nahanni River, do a solo canoeing trip on the Churchill River, do fly fishing in the Skeena, live aboard a floating fishing lodge in Northern BC, ride a Harley with a Calgary cowboy, eat a McLobster meal on Prince Edward island and lots more... I'd love to be able to make it my country for the rest of my life. I would really appreciate any tips and info on what to do.

Kind regards

 

[Avadava]

I am in no way an expert on the immigration matter, but I will write some of the ideas that I have. Please don't take my words as legal advice though, this is only from my experience and what I've learned so far.

First off, in order to apply as common law, you must live together for 12 consecutive months. It doesn't matter where the cohabitation takes place, as long as it's without interruption (except for a short 2 week trip) and you have enough proof to sustain that (joint condo lease, joint address, joint bank account, letters from family or friends acknowledging and testifying of your relationship, etc.)

In my opinion, you have two ways to go about this.

1. Move to Canada and stay there for 12 months with your gf in order to establish common law. Get her to include you on her condo lease, and gather proof of your common law during this 12 month period. You won't be able to work as a visitor. After 12 months you can apply for common law sponsorship and Open Work Permit (OWP) at the same time, if you choose to apply inland . You won't be able to leave Canada, but after the sponsor is approved, you have high chances to be able to work.
You can of course apply outland too (without actually leaving Canada), which is a shorter process, but in this case, you can't apply for an OWP. If you apply outland, your status will always be a visitor, but you can extend that within Canada and you can leave Canada also, anytime you want. There is also the possibility to apply outland and leave Canada soon after (go to South Africa for example, to work) but this means you and your gf will be separated for the entire time. When couples are separated, it doesn't sit well in terms of proofing a genuine relationship (especially in common law applications) and chances for a visitor visa to visit her in Canada are very slim because of your strong ties in Canada (they will assume that you won't leave at the end of your visit).
With the inland application, you don't have the right to appeal, as opposed to the outland one.

2. Get married right away. In this case, you can apply right after the marriage, meaning you don't need to live together for 12 months. You can go there on your visitor visa, get married in Canada, and send the application. In this case also, you can send an Open Work Permit application together with the PR one. The same applies here as per the first idea I wrote. Inland vs outland, you have high changes of working after the OWP gets approved, etc.


Again, don't take my advice blindly, this is only from what I've learned while browsing the forums. Maybe other members can add some more ideas, or give you other advice from their experience.

Good luck.

 

[scylla]

You are not a couple from a Canadian immigration perspective. As the previous poster indicated, if you want to be considered a couple for Canadian immigration purposes, then you'll either need to get married or live together for a minimum of one full year.

You don't qualify as a conjugal couple since there are no barriers preventing you from getting married and/or living together.

 

[OhCanadiana]

Hello and welcome

You have 2 options:

1. Apply through family class sponsorship. As others have said, you'll be eligible to do so after you get married or after you live together for 12 consecutive months (with short breaks only). There are two routes to apply:
(1) Outland: CPP-M and then South Africa. You can pursue this option whether you are physically in Canada or in South Africa. This process could be completed in as fast as 5-9 months.
Phase 1 in CPP-M takes about one month. Then, for Phase 2, for the 12 month period ending June 30, 2013 Pretoria completed 20% of spouse, partner and children apps in 4 months; 50% by the 8 month mark, and 80% in 20 months (per http://data.gc.ca/data/en/dataset/427337d0-7c36-4fed-8428-c6a63f8c19b3).
In this case, you could visit Canada while your application is in process. However, as you are aware, you can't work until you get a work permit (with a job that has a positive LMO, labour market opinion, or through a provincial program) or PR status with few exceptions.

(2) Inland: Vegreville and then a regional Canada-based visa office if you are physically in Canada. Phase 1 takes about 11 months and Phase 2 is also currently reported as 11 months at http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/spousal-sponsorship-t46995.0.html.


2. Apply through skilled worker class, either through federal (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/apply-who-instructions.asp?expand=jobs#jobs) or provincial programs in the province she lives.

 

[Craveman]

First off, in order to apply as common law, you must live together for 12 consecutive months. It doesn't matter where the cohabitation takes place, as long as it's without interruption (except for a short 2 week trip) and you have enough proof to sustain that (joint condo lease, joint address, joint bank account, letters from family or friends acknowledging and testifying of your relationship, etc.)

Hi Avadava

Thank you very much for your reply, it is much appreciated. It seems that the family class sponsorship will take too long especially as we were hoping on moving to Canada say mid-2014. At this stage we can't afford just having one person bringing in money so it seems that your "Option 2" will be the way to go. Is it a lot easier getting in as a spouse then? What are the requirements? Will we also need proof of joint bank accounts, shared bills, etc?

You are not a couple from a Canadian immigration perspective. As the previous poster indicated, if you want to be considered a couple for Canadian immigration purposes, then you'll either need to get married or live together for a minimum of one full year.

Ok. Thanks for your reply

Hello and welcome Smiley

Hello OhCanadiana

Thank you very much for the links you provided! I would really like to get into Canada with my girlfriend asap, although living off one salary will definitely make things difficult. Just to clarify, if say we do move to Canada, get married in March and send off both PR and OWP applications, would it still take as long as 11months + 11months? Does it mean that whichever way of me getting into Canada, either by doing it from outside or in, would require me not working for many months?

 

[DuberBlue]

Thank you very much for the links you provided! I would really like to get into Canada with my girlfriend asap, although living off one salary will definitely make things difficult. Just to clarify, if say we do move to Canada, get married in March and send off both PR and OWP applications, would it still take as long as 11months + 11months? Does it mean that whichever way of me getting into Canada, either by doing it from outside or in, would require me not working for many months?

For an inland application, yes, the timeline stated there would still hold. With the inland app it is expected that you are staying in Canada for the entire process....applying for the OWP when you do your PR app gives you the "implied" status so that you would be allowed to stay with your girlfriend/wife throughout the process.

Outland applications tend to be quicker as long as there are no red flags with your application...it doesn't give you any status in Canada but does let you move more freely. This means you can still stay with your wife as a "visitor" but cannot work, as Avadava said.

 

[Rob_TO]

if say we do move to Canada, get married in March and send off both PR and OWP applications, would it still take as long as 11months + 11months? Does it mean that whichever way of me getting into Canada, either by doing it from outside or in, would require me not working for many months?

Yes, either outland or inland, you are looking at around 1 year before you can legally work.

Since you have a TRV valid until 2017, you could come to Canada as a visitor, get married, then apply "inland". You would wait approx 11 months for work permit, then another 8 months or so for full PR. During this entire processing time, you should NOT ever leave Canada, for any reason whatsoever. Else you would risk having your app cancelled.

The other option is to apply "outland" through the Pretoria visa office. You could get married in any country in the world. You can look at this thread and ask questions specific to Pretoria visa offce. http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/applications-processed-in-pretoria-t53328.705.html
The processing time on CIC website says 21 months, but that is more worst-case scenario and some people in the Pretoria thread are getting PR in closer to around 1 year. If you apply outland, you can still come and go from Canada as you please under your current TRV.

Since you have TRV until 2017, I would recommend to apply outland. Then at least you could work in S.Africa while waiting for PR if you wanted to, and hope that you can get full PR status in around 1 years time.

Your other option either way, is to see if you can find a Canadian company willing to hire you under an LMO closed-work permit, or to see what special open work permits (working holiday, IEC, etc) could be available to S.African residents (i have no idea on details here). You could apply for this independently of either inland or outland app.

 

[Pippin]

You said you do not have lease agreements, but are you allowed to add your girl friend's name to your house title as a demonstration of your commitment?

 

[OhCanadiana]

Hello OhCanadiana

Thank you very much for the links you provided! I would really like to get into Canada with my girlfriend asap, although living off one salary will definitely make things difficult. Just to clarify, if say we do move to Canada, get married in March and send off both PR and OWP applications, would it still take as long as 11months + 11months? Does it mean that whichever way of me getting into Canada, either by doing it from outside or in, would require me not working for many months?

The timing is independent of whether you are a spouse or common-law applicant.

If you were to get married, you could apply as soon as you can pull your application together and proof of your relationship (wedding certificate, e-mails, phone call logs, photos together, photos of your wedding, etc). From CIC's perspective, you don't need to be living under one roof to apply.

In this case, unless there is something about your situation that you think would raise red flags, you could apply through Pretoria and assume that it's likely you'd be able to move to Canada within the year given the 50% processing time (which seems to have been stable for the last several years). If you find a job (with LMO) before then you can move ahead of time and just mail your passport back to South Africa when the visa is ready. The risk would be that if you move, if an interview is required you'd need to head back to Pretoria. You can minimize the chances of this happening by submitting evidence of your relationship (shouldn't be an issue from what you describe).

If you wanted to apply as common-law partners, then you'd need to live 12 consecutive months together anywhere in the world. So, for example, you could stay in South Africa and continue working there and your girlfriend could join you there (assuming South African law permits it, of course), you could go to Canada to visit or work with a work permit, or a combination thereof,

what special open work permits (working holiday, IEC, etc) could be available to S.African residents (i have no idea on details here).

Not an option for a South African citizen, unfortunately See http://www.international.gc.ca/experience/destinations_out-destinations_sortant.aspx?lang=eng

 

[scylla]

At this stage we can't afford just having one person bringing in money so it seems that your "Option 2" will be the way to go. Is it a lot easier getting in as a spouse then? What are the requirements? Will we also need proof of joint bank accounts, shared bills, etc?

Applying as a skilled worker does not mean you're going to get here sooner and having a Canadian spouse / common law partner won't expedite the processing time. You'll have to wait just like everyone else. If anything, I think this is the slower route of the two. It's also fairly difficult to qualify these days - you often need a full time and permanent job offer in Canada just to qualify to apply. (If you tell us more about what your profession is, we can give you more guidance regarding if you qualify and if so, through which stream). Assuming you qualify to apply, it will take you several months just to get the application together (for example, you'll have to take an English test).

If your objective is to be in Canada mid next year AND be able to work, then I think your only realistic option at this point is to find an employer in Canada. who is willing to give you a temporary job (and is able to obtain an approved Labour Market Opinion) which would then allow you to apply for a work permit and live in Canada temporarily (as well as work). If you go this route, starting looking for an employer now.

 

[Sweden]

Hey Craveman,

I've sent you a private message, please see your inbox and let me know.
Thanks,
Sweden

 

[Craveman]

For an inland application, yes, the timeline stated there would still hold. With the inland app it is expected that you are staying in Canada for the entire process....

Hello DuberBlue and thanks for your post! That is one loooong wait while living in an expensive city (Vancouver) with only one income!

Since you have TRV until 2017, I would recommend to apply outland. Then at least you could work in S.Africa while waiting for PR if you wanted to, and hope that you can get full PR status in around 1 years time.

Hey Rob_TO Many thanks also for your response. Do you maybe have a link or more info regarding LMO?

You said you do not have lease agreements, but are you allowed to add your girl friend's name to your house title as a demonstration of your commitment?

Hi Pippin! To be honest, I have no idea. I will look into that, thanks for your suggestion. I have added my girlfriend as the main beneficiary on my life insurance so hopefully that will help.

The timing is independent of whether you are a spouse or common-law applicant.

If you were to get married, you could apply as soon as you can pull your application together and proof of your relationship (wedding certificate, e-mails, phone call logs, photos together, photos of your wedding, etc). From CIC's perspective, you don't need to be living under one roof to apply.

In this case, unless there is something about your situation that you think would raise red flags, you could apply through Pretoria and assume that it's likely you'd be able to move to Canada within the year given the 50% processing time (which seems to have been stable for the last several years). If you find a job (with LMO) before then you can move ahead of time and just mail your passport back to South Africa when the visa is ready. The risk would be that if you move, if an interview is required you'd need to head back to Pretoria. You can minimize the chances of this happening by submitting evidence of your relationship (shouldn't be an issue from what you describe).

Well hello again OhCanadiana and thanks for your info. From what I've read so far, it seems that our best option would be to get married in South Africa and live here while doing an outland application. At least I can then still earn money while looking for a job with LMO at the same time. I will have to look up on South African laws however to see if my girlfriend will be able to work straight away if we get married here.

you could stay in South Africa and continue working there and your girlfriend could join you there (assuming South African law permits it, of course)

Unfortunately she can only stay here for 3 months (while we're not married) at a time before having to leave again. I think she can apply once only for an extension which could be any length of time. It is something else we will have have to look at...

If you tell us more about what your profession is, we can give you more guidance regarding if you qualify and if so, through which stream

Hi scylla and thanks again for your response. Ok, I'm an qualified electrician with around 14 years experience and have passed both the South African "wireman's license" (aka electrical code of conduct) and (while in Britain) the British City and Guilds 2391 (Inspection and Testing) together with the City and Guilds 17th Edition. If you have any recommendations I would really appreciate it!

If your objective is to be in Canada mid next year AND be able to work, then I think your only realistic option at this point is to find an employer in Canada. who is willing to give you a temporary job (and is able to obtain an approved Labour Market Opinion) which would then allow you to apply for a work permit and live in Canada temporarily (as well as work). If you go this route, starting looking for an employer now.

If possible, yes that would be my objective. Do you have any idea how/where I can find an employer? Is there maybe a specific website/forum/company where I could contact someone or post my CV? Ideally, I would like to live in Vancouver as that is where my girlfriend comes from.

I've sent you a private message, please see your inbox and let me know.

Hi Sweden! Many thanks for your PM I sent you a reply