Proof of Relationship

[quakingaspen]

Hi guys! I need some advice.

My husband and I have known each other for a little over 3 years now. We met playing World of Warcraft (yeah, yeah, I know. We really are that big of geeks!) We talked online for a year, mostly using the game itself and MSN messenger to communicate.

After a year of that, I flew up here to meet him in person. It was awesome! Our one week first meeting turned into two. For about a year from then we would travel to see each other. He came to see me in the states once or twice, but mostly I flew to Canada to be with him. We mostly communicated through WoW (which keeps no chat log), and would spend 5-6 hours a day chatting on Skype. (Although, our first month apart we ran up a $500 phone bill, which convinced us to give Skype a try).

For the last year I've been living with him in Canada, though I have made visits to see my family in the states. We got married at the end of August after an 18 month engagement.

So, here's what I need advice about. I have MSN logs from the first year we knew each other, I have e-mails, I have a few pictures, cards, etc. From the second year we knew each other, I have flight confirmations from us visiting one another. I have some e-mails from the entire period. However, I don't have a lot of proof of communication for the last year (while we've been living together) except for pictures from day trips. And, all of our Skype logs are gone because we've reformatted all 3 computers we've used to talk on Skype.

What would you guys advise for proof of relationship?

Also, any tips on dealing with the slightly awkward situation of me living with him? I'll be using my parents address as my permanent address, since that is my permanent legal address right now. We'll be applying outland through Buffalo. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[scylla]

To answer your question on addresses: You should list your parent's address as your home address but his address in Canada as your mailing address. My husband (American) and I applied outland through Buffalo as well. He has been spending almost all of his time living with me (as a visitor) in Canada over the last few years. We indicated his home/permanent address as his house in Florida and his mailing address as my place in Toronto. This ensured that all of his immigration related mail came here. We also answered yes to the "are you living together" question and also listed my address on his "places where you have lived" list. I wouldn't feel awkward about the fact that you have been living together. If anything, this further proves that your relationship is real. As you can see from my signature - our application was processed in approximately four months.

Other proof I would include if you have it: wedding photos, wedding bills and budget, anything else relating to the wedding (i.e. invitations, sample cards you received, etc.), any mail you may have received that shows his address, joint bank accounts, joint utility bills.

 

[Love_Young]

Welcome to the site!

Well I don't know how good of an example this gives you but here was our list of things we included. We ended up naming it by chapters and sections to make easy for them to flip to something they were looking for. Try not to get too confused by that yet, we can help you when you get to the organizing part. So for now here is a list of things I included. I don't know how well they are as I am still waiting to be approved but hopefully it gives you some insight.

Chapter 1: Communication
Section A: Text Messages
Section B: Phone Records
Section C: Cards Given To Each Other
Section D: Notes and Letters To Each Other
Section E: Cards Given To Us By Friends and Family
Section F: Cards Given To Friends and Family by Us
Section G: Letters of Support
Section H: Messages Sent When Going To Canada
Section I: Messages About Doing Activities Together
Section J: Messages Sent To Each Other Before Meeting
Section K: Messages from (sponsor)'s Family Wishing (applicant) a Happy Birthday
Section L: Messages Between (applicant) and Her Friends Talking About (sponsor)
Section M: Messages Sent While (sponsor) Was Visiting (applicant)

Chapter 2 Joint Documentation
Section A: Envelopes Received At Shared Address
Section B: Joint Purchases On Joint Credit Card
Section C: Joint Scotiabank Account
Section D: Joint RBC Account and Documents
Section E: Shared Family Plan with Telus
Section F: Miscellaneous Joint Correspondence

Chapter 3 Receipts
Section A: Receipts From Outings Together
Section B: Receipts For Purchases of Gifts and Cards

Chapter 4 Engagement/Wedding
Section A: Our Engagement Journal
Section B: Emails Between Us and Our Wedding Planner
Section C: Our Permit To Marry In The Park As Well As Our Ceremony Agreement With Our Commissioner
Section D: Copies From Our Wedding Guestbook
Section E: Copies Of Cards Given To Us For Our Wedding
Section F: Messages About Engagement, Planning For Wedding, Reception and Our Honeymoon
Section G: Congratulations Messages On Our Marriage
Section H: Congratulations Messages On Our Engagement
Section I: Receipts For Engagement, Wedding, and Honeymoon
Section J: Emails About Honeymoon Reservation and Permit To Marry In The Park

Chapter 5 Photos Throughout Relationship
Section A: Special Occasion Pictures
Section B: Pictures on Outings Together
Section C: Pictures From Wedding/Reception/Honeymoon

Chapter 6 Travel
Section A: Emails of (sponsor) and (applicant)'s Itinerary
Section B: Copies Of Our Flight Tickets
Section C: Copies Of (applicant)'s Passport Stamp and Visitor Records.
Section D: Miscellaneous Travel Documents

Chapter 7 Miscellaneous Supporting Documents
(Whatever didn't fit in the other sections)

 

[quakingaspen]

Scylla - Did your husband have an extended visitor record or anything here in Canada? And did he need a Canadian criminal history clearance from having lived here? It would be great to be able to be straightforward about our situation, but I'd rather not be deported!

Love_Young - That's incredible! Thank you for sharing that. It gives me a lot of ideas of supporting documents I can use. It looks like you two didn't have any trouble with your documentation.

Another difficulty we have is that we eloped. We had a local officiant come to our home and marry us in our living room. My family is out of the country and my husband doesn't have much of a relationship with his. We do have some pictures, e-mails with the officiant, the receipt, and other associated paperwork.

This also means we didn't have a reception, and he hasn't even had the time off work for a honeymoon yet. However, my family is planing a family dinner/reception for us when we can get down to the states (probably next summer).

 

[scylla]

No - my husband did not have an extended visitor record. Unless told otherwise at the border, US citizens are permitted to visit Canada for six months. He always ensured that he didn't overstay the six months (i.e. would leave the country and re-enter to re-start the six months) - and always had legal/valid visitor status while staying in Canada. However even if you don't have legal status in Canada (i.e. have overstayed as a visitor without extending), I'm quite certain you need to declare this in your application. It's definitely a very bad idea to lie about anything. Things like that are forgiven as long as you declare them. However if you cover up the facts and they are found out while your application is being processed, you can end up with deportation and a two year ban.

And no - you don't need to include an RCMP police certificate in your application.

 

[quakingaspen]

Scary! But good advice. I don't have an extended visitor record either, but I have never stayed longer than 5 months at once, and I've only been here for about a little over a year.

Thanks for all the advice. I should be getting my FBI clearance in a week or so, and my medical in a month. And then, it's time to submit.

 

[Dayanara]

Hi guys! I need some advice.

My husband and I have known each other for a little over 3 years now. We met playing World of Warcraft (yeah, yeah, I know. We really are that big of geeks!) We talked online for a year, mostly using the game itself and MSN messenger to communicate.

After a year of that, I flew up here to meet him in person. It was awesome! Our one week first meeting turned into two. For about a year from then we would travel to see each other. He came to see me in the states once or twice, but mostly I flew to Canada to be with him. We mostly communicated through WoW (which keeps no chat log), and would spend 5-6 hours a day chatting on Skype. (Although, our first month apart we ran up a $500 phone bill, which convinced us to give Skype a try).

For the last year I've been living with him in Canada, though I have made visits to see my family in the states. We got married at the end of August after an 18 month engagement.

So, here's what I need advice about. I have MSN logs from the first year we knew each other, I have e-mails, I have a few pictures, cards, etc. From the second year we knew each other, I have flight confirmations from us visiting one another. I have some e-mails from the entire period. However, I don't have a lot of proof of communication for the last year (while we've been living together) except for pictures from day trips. And, all of our Skype logs are gone because we've reformatted all 3 computers we've used to talk on Skype.

What would you guys advise for proof of relationship?

Also, any tips on dealing with the slightly awkward situation of me living with him? I'll be using my parents address as my permanent address, since that is my permanent legal address right now. We'll be applying outland through Buffalo. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Well from one WoW marriage to another...congrats! ;-)

My hubby and I met on Argent Dawn.

The proof that we submitted was the following:
-phone records for 2 years
-screenshots of the numerous e-mails in my folders and a few print outs of select e-mails
-flight itineraries and tickets from trips
-ticket stubs for events we both attended and pics to prove we were there (Canada's Wonderland, Buffalo Science Center, Yuk Yuk's, Circus, etc etc)
-any and all photos we had with us and other people
-letters from a few family and friends that knew how we met and explained it in their own words of how and when they found out

 

[can_usa_97]

My husband and I have been married 13 years a week from today.
So, while I had some documentation from our first meeting, ect... most of it has been living together (all 13 years only apart a total of maybe a week).

I ended up making a word document that took month by month (or in cases where there wasn't anything pertinent to tell I'd group say Dec 08 til may 08 'working / going to schoo/ whatever it was") and then include at least 1 photo a month, even if it was just him with our kids and then me with them in the same outfits - to help show we have lived together / are truly married. Probably overkill but spousal comes down to if IO sees it genuine or not.

Do you have any joint accounts together? I'm guessing not, but just thought I'd ask.
We included 5 years of bank statements, mortgage in our names, ect.

I'd provide anything that you can think of that ties you to each other, friends letters, families letters, photos, ticket stubs, ect.
If you have a passport that shows you entering. If you attend church, perhaps the pastor/minister.

Also, just note why you don't. Ie: you aren't big picture takers, have not taken many trips, don't photograph day to day events (I take photos pretty much everyday of my kids , which is why I haven't even hit their 3 month mark (they are 3 1/2 in 2 months) in scrapbooking yet, haha!).

 

[HoneyBird]

Welcome to the site!

Well I don't know how good of an example this gives you but here was our list of things we included. We ended up naming it by chapters and sections to make easy for them to flip to something they were looking for. Try not to get too confused by that yet, we can help you when you get to the organizing part. So for now here is a list of things I included. I don't know how well they are as I am still waiting to be approved but hopefully it gives you some insight.

Chapter 1: Communication
Section A: Text Messages
Section B: Phone Records
Section C: Cards Given To Each Other
Section D: Notes and Letters To Each Other
Section E: Cards Given To Us By Friends and Family
Section F: Cards Given To Friends and Family by Us
Section G: Letters of Support
Section H: Messages Sent When Going To Canada
Section I: Messages About Doing Activities Together
Section J: Messages Sent To Each Other Before Meeting
Section K: Messages from (sponsor)'s Family Wishing (applicant) a Happy Birthday
Section L: Messages Between (applicant) and Her Friends Talking About (sponsor)
Section M: Messages Sent While (sponsor) Was Visiting (applicant)

Chapter 2 Joint Documentation
Section A: Envelopes Received At Shared Address
Section B: Joint Purchases On Joint Credit Card
Section C: Joint Scotiabank Account
Section D: Joint RBC Account and Documents
Section E: Shared Family Plan with Telus
Section F: Miscellaneous Joint Correspondence

Chapter 3 Receipts
Section A: Receipts From Outings Together
Section B: Receipts For Purchases of Gifts and Cards

Chapter 4 Engagement/Wedding
Section A: Our Engagement Journal
Section B: Emails Between Us and Our Wedding Planner
Section C: Our Permit To Marry In The Park As Well As Our Ceremony Agreement With Our Commissioner
Section D: Copies From Our Wedding Guestbook
Section E: Copies Of Cards Given To Us For Our Wedding
Section F: Messages About Engagement, Planning For Wedding, Reception and Our Honeymoon
Section G: Congratulations Messages On Our Marriage
Section H: Congratulations Messages On Our Engagement
Section I: Receipts For Engagement, Wedding, and Honeymoon
Section J: Emails About Honeymoon Reservation and Permit To Marry In The Park

Chapter 5 Photos Throughout Relationship
Section A: Special Occasion Pictures
Section B: Pictures on Outings Together
Section C: Pictures From Wedding/Reception/Honeymoon

Chapter 6 Travel
Section A: Emails of (sponsor) and (applicant)'s Itinerary
Section B: Copies Of Our Flight Tickets
Section C: Copies Of (applicant)'s Passport Stamp and Visitor Records.
Section D: Miscellaneous Travel Documents

Chapter 7 Miscellaneous Supporting Documents
(Whatever didn't fit in the other sections)

Love, you gotta repost this in leon's sticky thread to the top of the page..its really really really good! wow!

 

[HoneyBird]

I will do it for you, since i am not sure you will come back to this thread! hope you dont mind..i will put your credit!

 

[Love_Young]

No I don't mind. I just don't want people thinking that if they don't have that EXACT evidence that they did something wrong. As long as they know it is just a suggestion and some idea of what they could include then I am okay with it.

 

[vonster]

that's a good list of proof but in my opinion, all that wedding paper does not really proof a genuine relationship, it only proof that you had a wedding...but the other stuff you included definetely proove it...


Quoted from canadaimmigrant: http://www.canadianimmigrant.ca/settlingincanada/immigrationlaw/article/6701

Prove it's genuine
So when you complete an application to sponsor your spouse, make extra effort in gathering and submitting evidence to prove that your relationship is in fact “genuine.” I typically categorize evidence into two groups, “sentimental evidence” and “hard evidence.”

The primary type of sentimental evidence used is photographs. Submit a selection of photographs that capture the essence of your relationship. Photos of spouses together on vacation, with each other's close family and at major life events (birthdays, holidays, vacations, etc.) are usually well received by the government. Do not make the mistake of only submitting photos from a single day or only photos where you are wearing the same outfit. Your photos should represent different milestones in your relationship and not just the wedding.

Other sentimental evidence to submit includes copies of birthday/holiday cards, email printouts, Facebook printouts, love letters, wedding invitations and reference letters from close friends or family that confirm the nature of your relationship. I had a client once who wanted to submit a racy video that he said confirmed beyond doubt that his relationship was real. I told him he was taking it too far.

More evidence
I classify all legal and third party documents as “hard evidence.” Hard evidence that you should plan to submit include copies of a power of attorney, copies of wills or life insurance policies, naming each spouse as the other's beneficiary, copies of leases or land title certificates, showing both spouses as tenants or owners and copies of bank statements, showing both spouses as joint account holders.

It is also worthwhile to submit copies of boarding passes, hotel reservations, receipts for gifts and dinner, and passport stamps to prove that visits between spouses actually took place. Phone bills are an excellent way to confirm communication between spouses while separated.

Explain well
My final tip is to be thorough in explaining your evidence. Explain what each piece of evidence is and why you are submitting it. Handing a visa officer a pile of evidence without any explanation makes their job difficult. In submitting your application, your goal should be to make the visa officer's job as easy as possible to approve your application as quickly as possible.

A thorough and complete application, leaving no questions to be answered, may even get you out of an interview and thereby speeding up your application processing. Visa officers are empowered with the discretion to waive interviews for applications where it is clear that the relationship is genuine. As such, the extra time that you put into gathering and explaining evidence will save you much hardship and hassle down the road.

 

[Love_Young]

that's a good list of proof but in my opinion, all that wedding paper does not really proof a genuine relationship, it only proof that you had a wedding...but the other stuff you included definetely proove it...

No offense dear but I didn't just include wedding stuff... :
I think what I supplied gave a lot of variety which is good or so I think. No evidence is perfect evidence or else I would think it was planned/fake. Like I said though, I just posted what I included to give some ideas but not a definite go by list. I don't want people to think that is the EXACT things they need to include because for one no one is in the same situation with the same evidence and another, mine has neither been approved nor denied yet. But I do still think the marriage documents are still evidence that should be part of your application.

 

[vonster]

No offense dear but I didn't just include wedding stuff... :
I think what I supplied gave a lot of variety which is good or so I think. No evidence is perfect evidence or else I would think it was planned/fake. Like I said though, I just posted what I included to give some ideas but not a definite go by list. I don't want people to think that is the EXACT things they need to include because for one no one is in the same situation with the same evidence and another, mine has neither been approved nor denied yet. But I do still think the marriage documents are still evidence that should be part of your application.

...but the other stuff you included definetely proove it...

 

[Love_Young]

...but the other stuff you included definetely proove it...

I read that part too. I overreacted so I am so sorry. I re-read your message and I think what you were trying to point out is that you can't just include a ton of only wedding stuff and think that is proves it is genuine. Am I correct? If not, care to explain?

Once again sorry vonster.