People who got PR under CEC+PNP will be the hardest hit by New Citizenship Bill

[salzafar]

Not only we'll be effected by (1,460 days) out of the six years condition, we'll also be effected by the condition 'Eliminate use of time spent in Canada as a non-permanent resident (non-PR)'. Now, we're looking at an additional 2 years before we're eligible for citizenship, especially those who became PR's in 2012 and 2013. After spending 7 years (4yrs Studying + 3yrs Working) in Canada, it quite unfair, and unjust that our commitment to Canada is being rewarded in this manner. I estimate at least 10,000 future applicants to be in the same boat as me.

I'm assuming there are no public consultations on this ??

Current Act
•Residence for three out of four years (1,095 days);
•No requirement that resident be physically present;
•Time as a non-permanent resident (non-PR) may be counted toward residence for citizenship;
•No intent to reside provision

Proposed Act
•Requires physical presence for four years (1,460 days) out of the six years;
•183 days minimum of physical presence per year in four out of six years;
•Eliminate use of time spent in Canada as a non-permanent resident (non-PR);
•Introduce “intent to reside” provision

source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/2014/2014-02-06e.asp

 

[joe_fun]

Hi,

I understand CEC by why PNP?
PNP already have an intent to reside in their application.

 

[ramsfe]

Not only we'll be effected by (1,460 days) out of the six years condition, we'll also be effected by the condition 'Eliminate use of time spent in Canada as a non-permanent resident (non-PR)'. Now, we're looking at an additional 2 years before we're eligible for citizenship, especially those who became PR's in 2012 and 2013. After spending 7 years (4yrs Studying + 3yrs Working) in Canada, it quite unfair, and unjust that our commitment to Canada is being rewarded in this manner. I estimate at least 10,000 future applicants to be in the same boat as me.

I'm assuming there are no public consultations on this ??

Current Act
•Residence for three out of four years (1,095 days);
•No requirement that resident be physically present;
•Time as a non-permanent resident (non-PR) may be counted toward residence for citizenship;
•No intent to reside provision

Proposed Act
•Requires physical presence for four years (1,460 days) out of the six years;
•183 days minimum of physical presence per year in four out of six years;
•Eliminate use of time spent in Canada as a non-permanent resident (non-PR);
•Introduce “intent to reside” provision

source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/2014/2014-02-06e.asp

Actually, While I agree with you that this is harsh, I think that the days you spent in Canada before becoming a PR can only give you a maximum of 1 year of full residence ( since you had to count the days of residence in the last 4 years.... so 2 years of residency x 0.5 = 1 year + 2 years of full residency.

 

[eileenf]

Not only we'll be effected by (1,460 days) out of the six years condition, we'll also be effected by the condition 'Eliminate use of time spent in Canada as a non-permanent resident (non-PR)'. Now, we're looking at an additional 2 years before we're eligible for citizenship, especially those who became PR's in 2012 and 2013. After spending 7 years (4yrs Studying + 3yrs Working) in Canada, it quite unfair, and unjust that our commitment to Canada is being rewarded in this manner.

There's a lot of disadvantage to go around:
Live-in caregivers (who work here at least 2 years before applying for PR + 39 month PR processing timeline) will be hurt, Refugees (especially Humanitarian and Compassionate cases inside Canada, which take 30-42 months to process PR), as well as CEC, PNPs, TFWs, students, etc.

Citizenship will be harder to get and easier to lose.

 

[us2yow]

justs zoom out for a moment and look at all this from up above.

The current govt just looks so bad ! Everyone is laughing behind their back. Their credibility is going down (while they doubt the credibility of honest PRs who do respect the rules). For many, it aint the Canada that people used to dream of moving to or reminesce about fondly.

I honestly feel sorry for them ! And further, the Minister like in any office and bureaucracy has to toe the official line and pretend to be a "jerk" with the required chest thumping and sermonizing on the news. Whether it is on the issue of refugee healthcare in ON or similar issues.

Uneasy (and very likely conflicted) lies the head(s) that wears the (faux) Con crown(s) ! So Bush-era esque !

Think big guys ! As someone said....If we are like them..whats the difference between us and them !

 

[ramsfe]

There's a lot of disadvantage to go around:
Live-in caregivers (who work here at least 2 years before applying for PR + 39 month PR processing timeline) will be hurt, Refugees (especially Humanitarian and Compassionate cases inside Canada, which take 30-42 months to process PR), as well as CEC, PNPs, TFWs, students, etc.

Citizenship will be harder to get and easier to lose.

I totally agree with this!

What i was saying in my previous comment is that many people think that the number of half days you can accumulate is unlimited, and this is dangerous for someone who wants to apply today as he will surely not be eligible even under the current law! If you live here for 4 years before becoming PR and then become a PR, you can only count the half days accumulated in the last 4 years period before the application.... so there is a maximum of 2 half-day years that you will accumulate ( 1 year of qualifying period).

On the other hand, yes, the proposed bill is nonsense when you look at the processing times it takes to become a PR, also, I don't see any logical reason why the half day law is a bad thing....

 

[eileenf]

What i was saying in my previous comment is that many people think that the number of half days you can accumulate is unlimited, and this is dangerous for someone who wants to apply today as he will surely not be eligible even under the current law! If you live here for 4 years before becoming PR and then become a PR, you can only count the half days accumulated in the last 4 years period before the application.... so there is a maximum of 2 half-day years that you will accumulate ( 1 year of qualifying period).

Yes, this is absolutely true. Only 1 year total of half days under the current law. I think the year of half days is mostly a gesture on the part of the government. It doesn't fully acknowledge the 7 years (in the original poster's case) or my own 4 years before PR that were spent learning about Canada in really important, close, daily, ways. But it's a nice gesture.

Having no acknowledgement of that time spent amongst you fine Canadians is an entirely different sort of gesture towards newcomers. It's hard, in the face of this Bill, to rise about the implied epithets and insults contained in the legislation, but at base, this gesture gives the impression that this governing party just doesn't like us. They don't care about our time here, or the value of our work, our scholarship, our relationships with Canadian friends, neighbours and family.

This isn't about how well we know Canada. It's about whether the ruling party respects us and believes we are worthy of equality. They don't.

 

[dbss]

the biggest hurdle will be for people who cannot get jobs because they are PR's but need to be citizens and people who travel a lot for their work..

 

[ramsfe]

Yes, this is absolutely true. Only 1 year total of half days under the current law. I think the year of half days is mostly a gesture on the part of the government. It doesn't fully acknowledge the 7 years (in the original poster's case) or my own 4 years before PR that were spent learning about Canada in really important, close, daily, ways. But it's a nice gesture.

Having no acknowledgement of that time spent amongst you fine Canadians is an entirely different sort of gesture towards newcomers. It's hard, in the face of this Bill, to rise about the implied epithets and insults contained in the legislation, but at base, this gesture gives the impression that this governing party just doesn't like us. They don't care about our time here, or the value of our work, our scholarship, our relationships with Canadian friends, neighbours and family. They don't care how many times in those years we went to the store and wondered at why milk was sold in bags, how much we've learned about maple syrup, the politics of "bonjour-hello", why Labour day parades were so orderly (Oh, English Canada!) and why Canadian trivia games seemed to revolve entirely around hockey and Timbits and cod. They don't care about whether we read Chester Brown's Louis Riel graphic novel or Margaret Atwood or Michael Ondaatje. They don't care if we learned about Expo '67 and how the Czechoslovakian pavilion promised visitors the chance to fly. They don't care if we know what FLQ stands for and the hard-won lessons that an American should never ever ever discuss the War of 1812 with an Anglo-Canadian and never ever ever tell a silly story about a Québec separatist to a 4th generation Anglo Montréaler.

This isn't about how well we know Canada. It's about whether the ruling party respects us and believes we are worthy of equality. They don't.

I hear you ! The tories really don't like us...but too bad for them, we don't like them either!

 

[meyakanor]

Another stream that will get affected is the PhD stream of FSWP. You need to be a PhD student in Canada for two years before you're eligible to apply, and processing times can easily take up to two years. I was under study permit for almost four years before I got my PR (and never left Canada even once before I became a PR), and under the new rules, all these months will amount to nothing for citizenship purposes.

Yes, under the current rules, you can only include the days within only the past four years, thus, pre-PR days can only, at the very most, give you an additional year. But with the additional year required to qualify to begin with (4 vs. 3), a lot of people who would find themselves within days to qualify under the current rules, would need to wait two extra years under the new rules. I understand that we don't have rights to complain and we should be grateful we got PR at all, and they owe us no explanation or justification. But I think it would be nice though if we know exactly in what way counting pre-PR residency in Canada would cheapen the value of Canadian citizenship

 

[eileenf]

I understand that we don't have rights to complain

Not true: Freedom of expression covers everyone in Canada, whether they're temporary residents, permanent residents or citizens.
"2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication..."

I think it would be nice though if we know exactly in what way counting pre-PR residency in Canada would cheapen the value of Canadian citizenship

I agree.

 

[lenovo]

CEC:-
1. 4 years Canadian University
2. 3 years open work pemit
3. 3 years PR
= 10 years total!

Now add an extra year and travel time, the total is now 11 years!

 

[salzafar]

Yes, this is absolutely true. Only 1 year total of half days under the current law. I think the year of half days is mostly a gesture on the part of the government. It doesn't fully acknowledge the 7 years (in the original poster's case) or my own 4 years before PR that were spent learning about Canada in really important, close, daily, ways. But it's a nice gesture.

Having no acknowledgement of that time spent amongst you fine Canadians is an entirely different sort of gesture towards newcomers. It's hard, in the face of this Bill, to rise about the implied epithets and insults contained in the legislation, but at base, this gesture gives the impression that this governing party just doesn't like us. They don't care about our time here, or the value of our work, our scholarship, our relationships with Canadian friends, neighbours and family. They don't care how many times in those years we went to the store and wondered at why milk was sold in bags, how much we've learned about maple syrup, the politics of "bonjour-hello", why Labour day parades were so orderly (Oh, English Canada!) and why Canadian trivia games seemed to revolve entirely around hockey and Timbits and cod. They don't care about whether we read Chester Brown's Louis Riel graphic novel or Margaret Atwood or Michael Ondaatje. They don't care if we learned about Expo '67 and how the Czechoslovakian pavilion promised visitors the chance to fly. They don't care if we know what FLQ stands for and the hard-won lessons that an American should never ever ever discuss the War of 1812 with an Anglo-Canadian and never ever ever tell a silly story about a Québec separatist to a 4th generation Anglo Montréaler.

This isn't about how well we know Canada. It's about whether the ruling party respects us and believes we are worthy of equality. They don't.

Actually, While I agree with you that this is harsh, I think that the days you spent in Canada before becoming a PR can only give you a maximum of 1 year of full residence ( since you had to count the days of residence in the last 4 years.... so 2 years of residency x 0.5 = 1 year + 2 years of full residency.

,

I was already aware that only the last 2 years are taken into account, and that too count as 0.5 day, hence translating into a credit of 1 year.

I was trying to relate this BILL to the comments of the Minister, on Jan 24th (See below). Essentially, it's unfair to compare INLAND applicants who have been here this long (i.e as students then as workers in my case) to those who land here form overseas, spend 3 years here and apply for citizenship is unjust and unfair. Having lived here for this long obviously means that we are committed, and we know what the country, citizenship and the society is all about. It's really targeting US who played by the rules and have been contributing to the Canadian economy by paying taxes, and being useful here by bringing in the required technical skills.

"That means making sure that people who are becoming citizens have really lived here, and have lived here for enough time to really understand what citizenship is about, what the country is about."(http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canadian-citizenship-rules-face-broad-reform-in-2014-1.2508758)

 

[salzafar]

I understand and appreciate that Canadian citizenship is a privilege, not a right.

To me now it seems like Canada simply wants immigrants to remain permanent residents without the benefits and rights of full citizens.
It really seems like “Immigrants have become the black sheep, and are presumed guilty of fraud and everything unless we can prove that we are not.
This is an overkill. Where many job opportunities that require Canadian citizenship are lost.

This should have been more about clearing the backlog not to further restrict the process.

 

[minime#]

Yes, this is absolutely true. Only 1 year total of half days under the current law. I think the year of half days is mostly a gesture on the part of the government. It doesn't fully acknowledge the 7 years (in the original poster's case) or my own 4 years before PR that were spent learning about Canada in really important, close, daily, ways. But it's a nice gesture.

Having no acknowledgement of that time spent amongst you fine Canadians is an entirely different sort of gesture towards newcomers. It's hard, in the face of this Bill, to rise about the implied epithets and insults contained in the legislation, but at base, this gesture gives the impression that this governing party just doesn't like us. They don't care about our time here, or the value of our work, our scholarship, our relationships with Canadian friends, neighbours and family.

This isn't about how well we know Canada. It's about whether the ruling party respects us and believes we are worthy of equality. They don't.

Totally agree with you