Outland or Inland - Read the Sticky, still confused!

[JamesC85]

So I did the first rule which is read the stickies!

My wife wants to sponsor me to stay in Canada, and I am currently in Canada on an IEC 2012.

According to the sticky, I can choose Outland or Inland. I would like to choose Outland.

But on this page of the CIC website, under 1. Get the Application Package the following info is given:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/sponsor/spouse-apply-how.asp

"If your spouse, partner or accompanying dependent child lives with you in Canada, use the Application for Permanent Residence in Canada—Spouse or Common-law Partner.

If your spouse, partner or dependent child lives outside Canada, use the Application to Sponsor a Member of the Family Class (FC).

If you are approved as a sponsor, the CPC will forward your family member’s application for permanent residence to the appropriate Canadian visa office to continue its processing."

It would seem from this info that I have to choose Inland?

Now in the application package, under IMM0008ENU_2D question 4. It asks which office you require to process the application. I know CIC Mississagua deals with the application prior to forwarding it to your chosen visa office.

So which office to I fill in under this question 4, and what do I address and post my entire package to?

Really hope I haven't lost you here. Many thanks in advance for advice.

James

 

[Sweden]

Hey,

even if you're in Canada, you can choose outland. In fact, if you read the inland guideline, somewhere in there, it says that it's a possibility.
If you're from a visa-exempt country ( and I assume you are as IEC are mostly for visa-exempt), then it's probably the best option - it's most of the time faster, and also you can travel in and out of the country during the application.

So - just choose the outland application package, and for the question "which office", choose the VO that corresponds to your nationality. then prepare the application, and send everything (sponsor, sponsored forms, and proofs etc) to Mississauga - first stage is processed in Canada then your file will go to whichever VO you selected.
Good luck,
Sweden

 

[JamesC85]

Hey Sweden,

Many thanks for the info. Unfortunately I have to take the completely opposite direction to what you have suggested, due to some new info that I've just got.

Because I want to apply for an 'Open Work Permit' at the same time as applying for Sponsorship/PR, CIC have advised me to apply within Canada. So I guess I have little choice now!

Again many thanks regardless!

James

 

[canuck_in_uk]

You again James? Thought we covered this already ;D

Yes you can get an OWP with the inland application but it still takes at least 6 months (and sometimes up to 8 months) to get it. So that's 6 months that you will be unable to work, still a further 8 months until you are a PR and you are unable to leave Canada the entire 14 months.

If you go outland, there is no OWP but London averages about 7 months right now. So that's 7 months that you would be unable to work but then you would be a PR. And you have the option at any time during processing to leave Canada.

So think really carefully about which way to go. Either way, you aren't able to work for at least 6 months. One of the most important factors, I think, is to have the ability to leave Canada in case there is a family emergency back home.

 

[amikety]

You definitely don't have to apply Inland. CIC actually prefers you apply Outland whenever possible. It's in their guides and used to be on the website.

If a Call Centre agent tells you otherwise - ignore that person. The Call Centre is a breeding ground for misinformation and confusion.

In the end, you must choose whatever is best for you, but know this - almost all the Americans I know who applied Inland wished they had applied Outland. Why? Because it's stressful having immigration hanging over your head. Most people prefer to get it over and done with. Yes, there will always be the minority that take longer than published times Outland and they may bemoan that fact, but the pattern is much the other way. It's a gamble - but in this game, the odds are in your favor.

In reality both are good options. They both have high success rates, both have benefits and draw backs. A lot of people are very pro Outland. I'm for whatever makes you feel more comfortable with your application - but I prefer it be an informed decision

 

[JamesC85]

Yes yes it's me again

Thanks again for all the information. As I said I have been working closely with an office of parliament from my local area in Canada, and my contact has been respresenting me when phoning CIC for information, which is a load of help because I have never, ever, ever, managed to get through to someone to speak with, ever.

Everytime she confirms something with me, CIC have noted down what has been discussed, so that is a big help when I send in my application and cover letter.

So with placing my trust in her, and CIC, (because it is on record) I am told, if I apply for PR & OWP inland, 30 days before my IEC 2012 expires, with proof of paying my application fees, I will be granted Implied Status, and I can continue to work at my current job with no gap of unemployment.

It's not that I'm not taking any of your advice, but if I do this at least I have someone in person to go to if all of it goes down the toilet!

Stay tuned for one more question

Cheers all.

 

[amikety]

Hmm, everything I've heard says NO to being allowed to continue working on an IEC visa. You better get that in writing. In fact, ask for the quote from legal code and share please. This is a hotly debated topic with the "experts" on this site saying IEC is not extendable, therefore NOT privy to Implied Status. (You would still get it from the OWP, but you can't work until you get the OWP in hand.) If your contacts within CIC can give proof otherwise, I would be interested to see it. It would solve the argument once and for all. Or until the laws update....

When you are contacting CIC are they contacting the Call Centre? Those people at the Call Centre may mean well, but they don't have a clue. Don't trust anything they tell you, even if its through a politican.

 

[parker24]

If you work on implied status, you are working illegally. As told to me by my MP, MPP, and ODSP. Tread carefully there....

 

[Sweden]

Indeed - it happened to somebody who was going through London VO not so long ago. They had gotten the information from CIC agents that it was OK to keep on working on IEC visa if applying for Inland... but then after working for a few months, it was confirmed that it was indeed illegal and the person was "escorted" by CBSA to the border. Makes the whole PR application way longer and trickier.
Save yourself some trouble: go through London VO, dont' work until your PR is approved (outland) or you have an OWP (inland).
Sweden

 

[JamesC85]

Thanks for the info.

Tomorrow (Monday 27th) I will get in touch with my representative and ask her to provide in writing, from CIC, that:

On an IEC visa, one can apply for PR and OWP at the same time, 30 days before IEC visa expiry, and be granted 'Implied Status' and therefore be able to work.

Keep you all updated. I'm not sure if she is contacting the helpline or a visa office. She seems to make a call each day with various queries from all sorts of clients so I will find that out if I can.

Cheers,
James

 

[amikety]

Thanks for the info.

Tomorrow (Monday 27th) I will get in touch with my representative and ask her to provide in writing, from CIC, that:

On an IEC visa, one can apply for PR and OWP at the same time, 30 days before IEC visa expiry, and be granted 'Implied Status' and therefore be able to work.

Keep you all updated. I'm not sure if she is contacting the helpline or a visa office. She seems to make a call each day with various queries from all sorts of clients so I will find that out if I can.

Cheers,
James

The "helpline" is notorious for giving bad information and incorrect advice. If that's who she is calling, I wouldn't listen to anything they say.

 

[JamesC85]

The "helpline" is notorious for giving bad information and incorrect advice. If that's who she is calling, I wouldn't listen to anything they say.

Y'know what the most infuriating thing is? My representative told me, presumably after CIC helpline told her, not to trust such forums as this either!

But honestly, this forum has been the saviour of my sanity, because we are the one's who have been through the process, or are currently going through the process, as opposed to someone sitting in a helpline call centre, doing a day job, and luckily can go home at the end of the day without a worry about not being able to stay in the country with their wife and work a job they love!

/rant :-X

So here we go, I phoned CIC on 1888 242 2100, which I assume is the helpline.

I have the name and Agent number of the person dealing with my queries, which I will quote on my cover letter. Apparently they do not provide personalised emails. I actually phoned in twice and talked to 2 representatives and got the same answer. So this is what I "confirmed"...

• I came to Canada on an IEC visa, without employment / an employer
• I am applying for Permanent Residency (Spousal Sponsorship) and an Open Work Permit.
• On the IMM5710 form, question 3, select "A work permit with the same employer"
• On the IMM5710 form, under "details of prospective employer", fill in NA
• You do not need to attach a job offer / contract / LMO
• Send in PR & OWP application before the expiry date of your IEC visa
• Provided you don't change your employer, you can continue to work on Implied Status.

For me, I will be applying for PR & OWP regardless of whether this is all correct. In my cover letter I plan to quote the agent number, and also request for an email once Implied Status is granted, confirming that I am allowed to continue working. If they tell me I can't work, then I guess I can't, and we play the waiting game again!

Any thoughts?

Continuing thanks to everyone.

James

 

[JamesC85]

PS. I think this information has now wandered off topic from the title, so if anyone reckons this may help others let me know and I'll create a new thread.

 

[amikety]

Okay, well the agent lied to you about at least one thing. They do send personal emails.

Of course your representative will say not to trust us! We're making her look bad!

You can send the agent's name, employee number, favorite color, pet dog's name.... anything you want. It won't do diddly. You're authorized for an OWP if you apply Inland after Stage 1 approval. It doesn't matter if you have a job already. All that matters if 1) you've applied for Inland PR spouse; 2) you have passed Stage 1 (AIP); 3) you filled out the forms, mailed them in, and paid the application fee. All you need to write is "Spousal OWP - Please process after AIP."

For the record, having that employee's name and number won't do you any good if you get caught working after your IEC expires/before you get the OWP. For one, that employee can and will say he/she never told you that. Second, CBSA doesn't care what an agent at the Call Centre told you. If you're working without status, you are working without status. End of story.

It's up to you to decide what to do - but if you decide to keep working, best hope CBSA doesn't find out.

 

[blueboom]

Of course your representative will say not to trust us! We're making her look bad!

Free advice will render her redundant!