Obtaining PR Card While Living In The USA

[letbonist]

Hello All,

I will start by providing a brief summary of my background and current situation.

I am a citizen of the United States of America. I am a software engineer who is using an immigration lawyer to step through the Express Entry program. I currently do NOT have a Canadian residence, nor do I have a job offer. My intentions are to obtain Permanent Residence through the Express Entry program under the Skilled Worker category; this will depend solely on my IELTS score, my degree (B.S. Computer Science), and various other conditions (e.g. my work experience as software developer in the USA). My wife will be accompanying me in this endeavour; we do not have children.

Again, I do NOT have a job offer, residence, family members, or friends in Canada.

Please be advised that I have not yet obtained PR and I am fully aware that I most certainly may be unsuccessful in obtaining PR status. With my background summary out of the way, please consider the following scenario:

1. My wife and I are successful and are invited to land in Canada to obtain our official PR statuses.

2. I do NOT have an official job offer at this point.

3. We land in Canada (by car) and go through processing at the border to obtain our PR status.

Given the aforementioned scenario, could someone answer the following questions:

1. We will most likely not have a Canadian residential address at this point. How can we go about obtaining PR cards, so that I may re-enter Canada multiple times to attend job interviews? Can we either have an immigration office hold our PR cards and allow us the pick them up (in person) at a later date or pay a 3rd party representative to hold them and allow us to pick them up in person? Will the officers at the border (when landing) allow us to even apply for PR cards without an address?

2. Assuming that there is a viable solution for #1, would we proceed from the border (after landing) and travel to the Service Canada office to obtain an SIN card for work eligibility? Would we receive the SIN card that day? If not, how would we obtain the SIN card will living out-of-country?

3. Assuming #1 and #2 work out, can I simply travel to and from Canada to attend job interviews as they are scheduled?

I do not intend on moving from the USA to Canada UNTIL I have successfully obtained PR AND a job offer. My biggest worry is that I will successfully obtain Canadian PR but end up in a situation where I cannot travel to and from Canada to attend job interviews to obtain work in Canada prior to moving to Canada. I am willing to travel (from the USA) to Canada as often as needed to obtain my SIN, a job, etc. I just need to know that this will be possible without a Canadian residential address.

Thank you in advance for your assistance. Please let me know if you require further clarification.

 

[Leon]

It may be hard to qualify under Express entry without a job offer. You can do your self-assessment and check. If it's a no go, you have two options. One is getting a job offer (LMIA) and use that to apply under express entry. The other is trying to qualify for a work permit. If your occupation falls under NAFTA, it should even be easier because you do not need an LMIA to get a NAFTA work permit. Once in Canada with a work permit, you can figure out other ways to apply for PR, through Canadian experience, through PNP etc.

If you do get a PR without a job offer and plan to move later, you can do it like this.

1. Enter Canada and tell them that you don't have an address yet.
2. Once in Canada, go to a UPS store and get a mailing address there. They can forward your mail to you at your US address.
3. Then notify Canada immigration of your UPS address. You can use the UPS address for the SIN card too.

However, because of residency issues, you should not apply for health care until you settle.

 

[letbonist]

It may be hard to qualify under Express entry without a job offer. You can do your self-assessment and check. If it's a no go, you have two options. One is getting a job offer (LMIA) and use that to apply under express entry. The other is trying to qualify for a work permit. If your occupation falls under NAFTA, it should even be easier because you do not need an LMIA to get a NAFTA work permit. Once in Canada with a work permit, you can figure out other ways to apply for PR, through Canadian experience, through PNP etc.

If you do get a PR without a job offer and plan to move later, you can do it like this.

1. Enter Canada and tell them that you don't have an address yet.
2. Once in Canada, go to a UPS store and get a mailing address there. They can forward your mail to you at your US address.
3. Then notify Canada immigration of your UPS address. You can use the UPS address for the SIN card too.

However, because of residency issues, you should not apply for health care until you settle.

I'm fully aware that without an official Canadian job offer, obtaining PR through EE may be difficult; however, I've already begun the process of using an immigration lawyer (with a good reputation) to assist in this process. They have informed me that I definitely qualify for the EE program under FSW category; it's simply a matter of putting in my profile and hoping that I receive an ITA. I believe that given my current situation (I currently have a good job in the USA but am wanting to change jobs to move to Canada; perhaps even take a significant pay cut), it's best that I avoid moving to Canada prior to having a permanent job and PR status.

Please provide some clarification on the UPS forwarding approach that you described. I did a little research and came across the Operational Bulletin 491 on the CIC's website. I'm having trouble deciphering the exact meaning for this document. The implications in the OPB 491 lead me to believe that perhaps the use of a 3rd party means of receiving a PR card was halted because the CIC does NOT want forwarding of PR cards to foreign addresses. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding?

 

[Leon]

Immigration wants to be sure that the card lands in your hands and not somebody elses. Therefore, if you had relatives who are living in Canada and you give their address at your landing but then it comes out that you are doing a short landing and will not be staying at the given address when the PR card arrives in the mail, they can refuse the address. Some people have in such cases phoned CIC after they were in Canada and again given the refused address as their new address and it has worked.

There is no law against mailing PR cards outside the country. The UPS method has worked for many people, even recently. Check out another thread here under settlement issues that's called UPS something or other.

If you do not wish to use this method, you can also delay your PR card delivery until you are settled and do have a secure mailing address in Canada. However, that could put you in a bad position when you are doing interviews and the employer asks to see your PR card. Aside from that, if you do not manage to settle and give a mailing address 6 months after your landing, your PR card will no longer be treated as a new card but as a renewal meaning you'd have to fill out a form, pay a small fee and send photos and what is worse is that the processing time would be longer. The processing time for a new PR card after they receive an address to mail it to is currently 73 days while for a renewal it's 170 days.

 

[scylla]

I'm fully aware that without an official Canadian job offer, obtaining PR through EE may be difficult; however, I've already begun the process of using an immigration lawyer (with a good reputation) to assist in this process. They have informed me that I definitely qualify for the EE program under FSW category; it's simply a matter of putting in my profile and hoping that I receive an ITA. I believe that given my current situation (I currently have a good job in the USA but am wanting to change jobs to move to Canada; perhaps even take a significant pay cut), it's best that I avoid moving to Canada prior to having a permanent job and PR status.

It's one thing to qualify under FSW/EE - many people qualify. It's entirely another thing to actually be selected. Selection is purely based on points - it's not a lottery. As of now, you need to have 450 points or more to be selected under this program and this level of points hasn't dropped in over a year of applicants being selected. If you are below 450 points, then sitting back and hoping you are selected in the wrong thing to do. Instead, you should see what you can do to increase your points above 450 - like retaking the language test to achieve a higher score or having your spouse (if you have one) complete the language test and education evaluation process. Hope your lawyer has explained all of this to you.

 

[spyfy]

Regarding eligibility: It doesn't hurt to try. I got ExpressEntry PR without a job offer, just through language tests, degrees and work experience.
But you didn't come here to get advice on eligibility. So let's get to your actual questions:

1. There are many cases where the UPS-technique worked, but there are also cases where it didn't work. So it's a bit of a gamble, as far as I know. Do you have any friends/relatives in Canada? You could just use their address. As long as it isn't a condo building but a single house, Canada Post doesn't care about the name on the envelope. As long as there is a mailbox at that address, they'll put the envelope there.
2. Once you crossed the border and landed, you can go to any Service Canada Office with your Confirmation of PR, wait in line for 10-ish minutes, talk to someone for 5 minutes and you get a printed letter with your SIN on it. They also ask you for an address but they never use it (there are no SIN cards being mailed anymore). Service Canada even explicitly states on their website that you don't have to tell them if your address changes. That's how less they care about it.
3. You can travel to and from Canada via the land border anytime. You have a signed Confirmation of PR which is enough to cross the land border, no PR card needed. Even now, without having PR status, since you are a US national, you can basically cross the border at your pleasure and even openly say that you are going there for job interviews. Job interviews do not qualify as working. The only thing is that the border officer might apply more scrutiny to make sure that you really are just being interviewed and not actually work in Canada. Once you have PR status, even that is gone.
I myself am not a US national but I crossed the land border with US nationals several times and things are always very smooth.

Having or not having a PR card is independent of your PR status. You can have a card and not be a PR (anymore) and not have a card but be a PR. It is clear that a PR card makes things easier (e.g. you can travel by plane without problems, after some months you can't use your CoPR for some paperwork anymore) but it is not a necessity.

 

[letbonist]

Immigration wants to be sure that the card lands in your hands and not somebody elses. Therefore, if you had relatives who are living in Canada and you give their address at your landing but then it comes out that you are doing a short landing and will not be staying at the given address when the PR card arrives in the mail, they can refuse the address. Some people have in such cases phoned CIC after they were in Canada and again given the refused address as their new address and it has worked.

There is no law against mailing PR cards outside the country. The UPS method has worked for many people, even recently. Check out another thread here under settlement issues that's called UPS something or other.

If you do not wish to use this method, you can also delay your PR card delivery until you are settled and do have a secure mailing address in Canada. However, that could put you in a bad position when you are doing interviews and the employer asks to see your PR card. Aside from that, if you do not manage to settle and give a mailing address 6 months after your landing, your PR card will no longer be treated as a new card but as a renewal meaning you'd have to fill out a form, pay a small fee and send photos and what is worse is that the processing time would be longer. The processing time for a new PR card after they receive an address to mail it to is currently 73 days while for a renewal it's 170 days.

When I land, will the immigration officials allow me to supply a UPS address for the address where the PR cards will mail? If so, how do I obtain a UPS mailing address prior to landing? Is this done online? Will I have to enter Canada before I receive a PR landing letter? Basically what I'm asking is how can I provide a UPS mailing address if before I'm allowed to continue pass the border I have to provide the shipping address to immigration; this is assuming that the landing location at the border is where you provide an address.

I don't mind using the UPS route; I just want to ensure that I know what to do when/if the time comes.

 

[letbonist]

Regarding eligibility: It doesn't hurt to try. I got ExpressEntry PR without a job offer, just through language tests, degrees and work experience.
But you didn't come here to get advice on eligibility. So let's get to your actual questions:

1. There are many cases where the UPS-technique worked, but there are also cases where it didn't work. So it's a bit of a gamble, as far as I know. Do you have any friends/relatives in Canada? You could just use their address. As long as it isn't a condo building but a single house, Canada Post doesn't care about the name on the envelope. As long as there is a mailbox at that address, they'll put the envelope there.
2. Once you crossed the border and landed, you can go to any Service Canada Office with your Confirmation of PR, wait in line for 10-ish minutes, talk to someone for 5 minutes and you get a printed letter with your SIN on it. They also ask you for an address but they never use it (there are no SIN cards being mailed anymore). Service Canada even explicitly states on their website that you don't have to tell them if your address changes. That's how less they care about it.
3. You can travel to and from Canada via the land border anytime. You have a signed Confirmation of PR which is enough to cross the land border, no PR card needed. Even now, without having PR status, since you are a US national, you can basically cross the border at your pleasure and even openly say that you are going there for job interviews. Job interviews do not qualify as working. The only thing is that the border officer might apply more scrutiny to make sure that you really are just being interviewed and not actually work in Canada. Once you have PR status, even that is gone.
I myself am not a US national but I crossed the land border with US nationals several times and things are always very smooth.

Having or not having a PR card is independent of your PR status. You can have a card and not be a PR (anymore) and not have a card but be a PR. It is clear that a PR card makes things easier (e.g. you can travel by plane without problems, after some months you can't use your CoPR for some paperwork anymore) but it is not a necessity.

I do not have friends or family in Canada whose address I can use; this is the main issue. I need an address to use to send the PR card and the SIN card.

Are you sure that I wouldn't need a PR card to enter Canada by car? I was under the impression that officials require either a PR card or a temp document in order to enter the country. I'd hate to drive 15 hours just to reach the border and find out I need a PR card to enter; this could also affect my obtaining a job.

 

[next2015]

Hi letbonist,

Just for your understanding of the UPS route

1) You rent the mail box. I advise you find the closes store to your place of temporary accommodation - google maps is the best tool.
2) The UPS store will give you an address. This is the address you will be using for all your mail, and it's a "residential" address not a post office box - this is important to CIC.
3) Now, this' the key feature of a UPS box. The store can forward all your mail to any address you provide them, it doesn't matter who sent it. So the store can forward the card to you in the U.S, as soon as they receive the it.

With your card in hand, movement to and from Canada will be much easier.

My advice? When the time comes; determine where you will be landing, determine your preferred place of temporary accommodation, find the closest UPS store (tool on ups.ca), and call them for an estimate and info on the set-up process.

 

[spyfy]

To answer some of your questions:

- I never used the UPS mailbox service, but even if you need to be there in person to sign up for one, you can travel to Canada before your permanent residence application is approved (see below) and get one.

- You are speaking of a SIN card that you need an address for, but again: There are no SIN cards in Canada anymore. All they do is give you a printed sheet at the Service Canada centre.

- Even if you are not a Permanent Resident or hold any other kind of visa/permit for Canada, you can cross the border just with a US passport. You can check this information here:
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/travel-voyage/ivc-rnc-eng.html#a1a
Please note: This website says that a US birth certificate is enough to cross the border. Still, I would highly recommend you bring your passport. I've seen people trying to cross with nothing but a birth certificate and they've been held at the border for an hour or so because the information had to be verified (obviously, a birth certificate is a much less secure document when it comes to fraud).

- If you are entering Canada just with your US passport, you come here as a visitor. This allows you to LOOK for jobs but it doesn't allow you to TAKE a job.

- Once your application for PR gets approved, you will be mailed a simple paper document called the "Confirmation or Permanent Residence" (CoPR). This document won't be signed yet and therefore is not valid yet. You then enter Canada at an airport or at a land border. They will do a final identity check and then sign and stamp the CoPR. This is your written proof that you are a Permanent Resident and it is valid immediately. This will, for instance, be the document you use to apply for a SIN.

- There are some things that a CoPR doesn't allow, i.e. things you need a PR card for. A typical example is boarding an international flight to Canada.

- However, a CoPR and your passport is definitely all you need to cross the land border. It is used regularly by many new Permanent Residents. There is one condition, though: When using your CoPR, you can only cross the border as an individual (with a car or on foot), that means you can't use the Greyhound or other bus services.
While this FAQ doesn't name the CoPR, that is exactly what they mean with "other documents" you can use:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?q=064&t=10

- Also, while technically your CoPR never expires, a very old CoPR (as in: years old) might raise questions at the border since by now, you should obviously have your PR card.

 

[letbonist]

Hi letbonist,

Just for your understanding of the UPS route

1) You rent the mail box. I advise you find the closes store to your place of temporary accommodation - google maps is the best tool.
2) The UPS store will give you an address. This is the address you will be using for all your mail, and it's a "residential" address not a post office box - this is important to CIC.
3) Now, this' the key feature of a UPS box. The store can forward all your mail to any address you provide them, it doesn't matter who sent it. So the store can forward the card to you in the U.S, as soon as they receive the it.

With your card in hand, movement to and from Canada will be much easier.

My advice? When the time comes; determine where you will be landing, determine your preferred place of temporary accommodation, find the closest UPS store (tool on ups.ca), and call them for an estimate and info on the set-up process.

Two final questions for you:

1. I want to be 100% honest with the immigration officials when I land; this being said, I will have to tell them that I'm landing, getting my SIN assigned, but then leaving a week or so later. Will this throw a red flag when I go to give them an address using the UPS address? Will they say, is this a residence? When I say, "no this is UPS because I haven't yet gotten a permanent home in Canada but need my card", will they shut me down?

2. You mentioned the notion of simply arriving in Canada prior to my landing to open a UPS address account. Does UPS require that you are a Canadian Citizen or PR to register an address here? Will they require a Canadian residential address to put on the form or can I use my USA address?

 

[Leon]

When you land, you only have to tell the IO what they ask. If they ask how long you are staying, you tell them one week. If they don't ask, you don't have to tell them anything.

However, I think you are better off saying when you land that you don't have an address yet and will provide one later. The same day or the next, you go to a UPS store and get an address and then call CIC with that address as your mailing address for your PR card.

The reason for that is that if you give a UPS address when you land, the immigration officer may ask you whose address that is and if you will be there when the PR card arrives. Failing that, they can deny the address. If you don't give an address and then phone CIC with it on the next day, odds are that CIC will just accept the address without asking any questions.

 

[letbonist]

When you land, you only have to tell the IO what they ask. If they ask how long you are staying, you tell them one week. If they don't ask, you don't have to tell them anything.

However, I think you are better off saying when you land that you don't have an address yet and will provide one later. The same day or the next, you go to a UPS store and get an address and then call CIC with that address as your mailing address for your PR card.

The reason for that is that if you give a UPS address when you land, the immigration officer may ask you whose address that is and if you will be there when the PR card arrives. Failing that, they can deny the address. If you don't give an address and then phone CIC with it on the next day, odds are that CIC will just accept the address without asking any questions.

Thank you, along with all the others who have given advice to me this far.

I will keep all of these things in mind in me endeavors. Again, I'm fully aware that I might not make it as far as a PR letter; however, I'd like to do as much research ahead of the time as possible.

I've sent in our FBI background check requests, my request to WES for my ECA report (for myself and my wife; we both have degrees), and we are both taking the IELTS next weekend. We are getting close to having our settlement funds and will be entering our profiles to qualify for an ITA soon; once everything has come back (end of March).

Please wish us luck! I will report the final results here no matter what.