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DUI charge during PR stage-criminal record-should he apply for citizenship? HELP

MBK2

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May 2, 2013
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Hi everyone,

I have been a part of this forum for a long time, got my citizenship 2.5yrs ago. Really appreciate all the help! :)

Im posting about a friend of mine. He is a PR, and has been living in Canada for almost 10yrs. During his time as a PR he got a DUI charge, so he now has a criminal record.
His lawyer suggested he wait for 3yrs and after that apply, as after 3yrs this offence will not be visible on his record for immigration.
But now, under the new rule, that 3yrs will be 4yrs, im guessing. Also, the lawyer mentioned that after 5yrs he can get a pardon.

Does anyone have any experience in this regard? Does having a DUI charge mean that if he applies now, his application will be cancelled?

Please help! No judgements please, thank you. :)
 

scylla

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It's an indictable offence. He needs to wait four years from the time he was convicted before applying for citizenship.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/become-eligibility.asp#criminal
 

meyakanor

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scylla said:
It's an indictable offence. He needs to wait four years from the time he was convicted before applying for citizenship.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/become-eligibility.asp#criminal
Is it indictable offense though? Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand, DUI can either be summary or indictable, and if he is convicted of summary offense instead, then there should be nothing to stop him from applying for citizenship?
 

Bigudi

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DUI is pretty serious offence, friend. Legally and morally. He should wait the 4 years for sure. And even than there are no grantees.
 

MBK2

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May 2, 2013
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Thanks for your replies everyone.


the immigration website:

If you have committed a crime in or outside Canada you may not be eligible to become a Canadian citizen for a period of time. For example if you:

are in prison, on parole or on probation in Canada, or are serving a sentence outside Canada,
have been convicted of an indictable offence in Canada or an offence outside Canada in the four years before applying for citizenship, or
are charged with, on trial for, or involved in an appeal of an indictable offence in Canada, or an offence outside Canada.
Time in prison or on parole does not count as time you have lived in Canada. Time on probation also does not count if you were convicted of a crime.


Definition from their website:

Offence
Related term:
Crime

An offence is any violation of a Canadian law or act, whether or not it occurs in Canada. It can include anything from trespassing or damaging property to immigration fraud or violent crime. There are two main types:
Summary offences — These are less serious. The maximum penalty for a summary offence is usually a $5,000 fine and/or six months in jail.
Indictable offences — These are more serious and include theft over $5,000, break and enter, aggravated sexual assault and murder. Maximum penalties vary and include life in prison. Some have minimum penalties.


Google:

The local Ontario Crown Attorney must elect whether to proceed with the D.U.I. by indictment or by summary conviction. Until he or she elects, the DUI offence is deemed to be prosecuted by indictment. Most Canadian DUI offences are prosecuted by summary conviction.

Asked him:

His one was a summary offence according to the court papers.

But the lawyer he went to said that the immigration considers DUI summary offences as "hybrid" of both.

But from what I read, abt summary vs indictable, he should be able to apply as his is summary not indictable.

What do you guys gather from reading the above info? thanks!
 

meyakanor

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MBK2 said:
Thanks for your replies everyone.


the immigration website:

If you have committed a crime in or outside Canada you may not be eligible to become a Canadian citizen for a period of time. For example if you:

are in prison, on parole or on probation in Canada, or are serving a sentence outside Canada,
have been convicted of an indictable offence in Canada or an offence outside Canada in the four years before applying for citizenship, or
are charged with, on trial for, or involved in an appeal of an indictable offence in Canada, or an offence outside Canada.
Time in prison or on parole does not count as time you have lived in Canada. Time on probation also does not count if you were convicted of a crime.


Definition from their website:

Offence
Related term:
Crime

An offence is any violation of a Canadian law or act, whether or not it occurs in Canada. It can include anything from trespassing or damaging property to immigration fraud or violent crime. There are two main types:
Summary offences — These are less serious. The maximum penalty for a summary offence is usually a $5,000 fine and/or six months in jail.
Indictable offences — These are more serious and include theft over $5,000, break and enter, aggravated sexual assault and murder. Maximum penalties vary and include life in prison. Some have minimum penalties.


Google:

The local Ontario Crown Attorney must elect whether to proceed with the D.U.I. by indictment or by summary conviction. Until he or she elects, the DUI offence is deemed to be prosecuted by indictment. Most Canadian DUI offences are prosecuted by summary conviction.

Asked him:

His one was a summary offence according to the court papers.

But the lawyer he went to said that the immigration considers DUI summary offences as "hybrid" of both.

But from what I read, abt summary vs indictable, he should be able to apply as his is summary not indictable.

What do you guys gather from reading the above info? thanks!
If his conviction was summary, then he would not be inadmissible to Canada, and he should still be able to apply for citizenship.

No citizenship if serving sentence

The amendments will not change the rule that you cannot become a citizen while serving a sentence or while you are charged with, on trial for, or subject to an appeal of a conviction for an indictable offence.

NOTE: Hybrid offences, such as impaired driving or assault, are considered indictable until the Crown elects to proceed by summary conviction. Once the Crown has elected to proceed summarily, the prohibition does not apply.

...

Syed Ahmed, an Iranian, was denied citizenship after he was charged with assaulting and threatening his wife. He appealed to the Federal Court in Toronto which held in 2009 that he was eligible for citizenship since the Crown had elected to proceed by summary conviction before the citizenship hearing. See Ahmed vs. Canada.

https://www.defencelaw.com/citizenship-act-amendments-bill-c24.html
There was even a precedent where a permanent resident was charged a hybrid offence, and was eventually found eligible to apply, since the Crown decided to proceed by summary conviction before citizenship hearing.
 

Bigudi

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research-scientist said:
I hope he learned his lesson and won't drive under influence ever.
And I hope he does something stupid again and is deported for ever.
 

insighty

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Oct 26, 2015
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Or maybe he just got tired and frustrated with the citizenship process, CIC and its eCAS that he just went out drinking to numb his pain and ended up DUI
 

Bigudi

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insighty said:
Or maybe he just got tired and frustrated with the citizenship process, CIC and its eCAS that he just went out drinking to numb his pain and ended up DUI
Well... that is excusable... ;D ;D ;D ;D
 

ifeedly

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Apart from everybody else who responded to your post, His lawyer also has no idea of the situation.
Ask to Change his lawyer as his suggestion is completely useless. Forum members mistakes are actually excusable but not the lawyer's.
 

MBK2

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May 2, 2013
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ifeedly said:
Apart from everybody else who responded to your post, His lawyer also has no idea of the situation.
Ask to Change his lawyer as his suggestion is completely useless. Forum members mistakes are actually excusable but not the lawyer's.

Hey thanks for responding,
could you please elaborate? Which point is the wrong one? if there is no use waiting, then it would definitely be helpful to know!
The lawyer he goes to is apparently one of the best, Bellisimo or something?
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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Some clarifications:

The CIC website information is about two elements, one is about the prohibitions which preclude eligibility for citizenship. A PR subject to an existing prohibition is not eligible for citizenship and cannot be granted citizenship. The prohibitions are specified in Section 22 of the Citizenship Act (this should be a link). One of the specified prohibitions is prescribed in Section 22.(2)(a), which prohibits the grant of citizenship to anyone who has been convicted of an indictable offence within the four years preceding the date of application.

The other element is about excluding credit toward the residency or physical presence requirement; periods of time on probation, incarcerated, on parole, and such, do NOT count toward meeting the residency or presence requirement. (see Section 21 of the Citizenship Act)

The website identifies circumstances which MAY trigger one or the other of these elements. Many criminal convictions affect both elements, since there is usually at least a period of probation for any conviction, that period of time essentially counting as if absent.

Thus, for example, regardless whether the conviction was for an indictable offence or a summary offence, a period of probation does not count toward presence or residency. Thus, for the pre-June-2015 applicant, for example, a day more than one year of probation within the four years preceding the date of the application precludes eligibility for citizenship even if the conviction was for a summary offence. (Note, Koo cannot be applied to allow a shortfall resulting from being on probation or in jail, since this time is precluded from counting toward residency itself . . . in contrast, the Koo criteria allows time outside Canada to still count as time resident in Canada.)



Indictable versus Summary Offences, and DUI:

To be clear, DUI is an indictable offence in Canada, meaning it can be prosecuted by way of indictment.

Many say it is a hybrid offence, which makes sense but I have not personally looked at the statutory provision specifying this. A hybrid offence may be prosecuted as either an indictable offence or a summary offence.

I have not seen any definitive decisions regarding how convictions for hybrid offences are treated by Immigration, Refugees, and Citizenship (previously CIC, and for now still typically referred to as CIC) relative to citizenship applicants.

There is no doubt about how hybrid offences are treated for purposes of inadmissibility provisions in IRPA (the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act), and that is based on the fact that the offence can be prosecuted as an indictable offence, it is thus considered an indictable offence even if the Crown elects to prosecute it as a summary offence.

The reasoning is simple. The offence is indictable, meaning it can be prosecuted by indictment. The statute does not specify that only a conviction obtained by indictment triggers inadmissibility. That is, it is the nature of the offence itself, and not how serious the particular violation was, which triggers the consequences.

I have seen no authoritative or definitive source as to how hybrid offences affect the prohibitions specified in the Citizenship Act. On its face, the statute, like in IRPA, refers to a conviction for an indictable offence, not a conviction pursuant to indictment.

I would tend to trust the opinion of a reputable immigration lawyer regarding this issue. Moreover, my understanding is that a DUI conviction within the preceding four years is likely to invoke probation for a period of time which, at the minimum, is almost certain to result in probation constituting an absence long enough to preclude eligibility anyway.
 

ifeedly

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Section 253 CCC. DUI is a general term, offences vary and must be defined properly.
I Agree with penabill to look for an experienced immigration lawyer. Apologies for late reply.