Citizenship via descent?

[justcurious_]

Apologies if this type of question gets posted a lot!

Having visited Canada numerous times on a British passport to see cousins, I've discovered I may be eligible for citizenship by descent. My grandmother was born in Ontario, married a Scottish soldier there (my grandfather) and migrated to Britain just before WWI. She died in 1951.

Am I able to claim Canadian citizenship through my grandmother? Are my children/grandchildren also able to claim? All of us were born before 2009 when the laws last significantly changed. I've read various conflicting information about this and would like some advice, so thanks in advance for your help! I understand it can be quite complex, but all I'm looking for is a general 'yes/no' to see whether it's worth submitting an application.

 

[rajkamalmohanram]

Apologies if this type of question gets posted a lot!

Having visited Canada numerous times on a British passport to see cousins, I've discovered I may be eligible for citizenship by descent. My grandmother was born in Ontario, married a Scottish soldier there (my grandfather) and migrated to Britain just before WWI. She died in 1951.

Am I able to claim Canadian citizenship through my grandmother? Are my children/grandchildren also able to claim? All of us were born before 2009 when the laws last significantly changed. I've read various conflicting information about this and would like some advice, so thanks in advance for your help! I understand it can be quite complex, but all I'm looking for is a general 'yes/no' to see whether it's worth submitting an application.

Hmmm. This is not a common question.

I would recommend you take the 'Am I a Canadian' questionnaire to find out.

https://na1se.voxco.com/SE/56/amicanadiansuisjecanadien/?lang=en&tui=auto

 

[justcurious_]

Hmmm. This is not a common question.

I would recommend you take the 'Am I a Canadian' questionnaire to find out.

https://na1se.voxco.com/SE/56/amicanadiansuisjecanadien/?lang=en&tui=auto

Thanks. Have taken it and it comes up negative. But is it trying to work out whether I am automatically Canadian (doubt it) or if I am able to claim citizenship?

I found this site which I took to mean I was eligible:
https://canadacitizenshiphelp.ca/2018/02/28/how-youre-entitled-to-canadian-citizenship-by-descent/
"The Citizenship Act was recently changed in 2009 to limit that citizenship by descent to one generation – also known as the “first generation rule”. It is not retroactive. If you were born after 2009, you’re a Canadian if one parent is a Canadian citizen – but not if a grandparent was. if you were born prior to 17 April 17th, 2009 when the new rule came into effect, you’re in luck and can still claim Canadian citizenship regardless of how many generations back your Canadian direct ascendents were born in Canada. This is particularly important for many Americans who may be descended from Canadians who moved to the United States for economic reasons a number of generations ago."

 

[foodie69]

I'd say it is way too distant. Your grandma's children maybe, but not you nor your children. Certainly not your grandchildren..

 

[hawk39]

Thanks. Have taken it and it comes up negative. But is it trying to work out whether I am automatically Canadian (doubt it) or if I am able to claim citizenship?

I found this site which I took to mean I was eligible:
https://canadacitizenshiphelp.ca/2018/02/28/how-youre-entitled-to-canadian-citizenship-by-descent/
"The Citizenship Act was recently changed in 2009 to limit that citizenship by descent to one generation – also known as the “first generation rule”. It is not retroactive. If you were born after 2009, you’re a Canadian if one parent is a Canadian citizen – but not if a grandparent was. if you were born prior to 17 April 17th, 2009 when the new rule came into effect, you’re in luck and can still claim Canadian citizenship regardless of how many generations back your Canadian direct ascendents were born in Canada. This is particularly important for many Americans who may be descended from Canadians who moved to the United States for economic reasons a number of generations ago."

That website's information is misleading. The first generation limit is reflected through your entire bloodline, starting with the last generation to hold Canadian citizenship, and not starting from 2009 on. So your parent (grandmother's child) would be first generation and eligible for citizenship by descent, and you would be second generation, and your children would be third generation and so on.

One other thing that is unfortunately against your situation is that your grandmother is your Canadian ancestor, and 1947 Act says that only men or unwed women could pass on their Canadian citizenship to their children. This was changed in 1977, but the change was not retroactive, so only children born after this change to married Canadian women would gain citizenship. The 2009 changes basically reversed everything and made it so that children born abroad (regardless of when they were born) to Canadians would also be citizens, but the first generation limit was also implemented. That's why, today, your parent would be eligible but you would not.

 

[justcurious_]

That's very helpful, thank you. I have no idea whether my Scottish grandfather could also be considered Canadian. He was posted there with the British military, got married in Canada and also had his first child (my uncle) over there. The family moved back to the UK where my mother was born, and my grandfather was long dead by 1947.

Does that change anything at all? I doubt it but worth a punt. Difficult to argue that an ancestor was Canadian given that term didn't exist when he was alive, though he did have strong ties to the country!

 

[scylla]

That's very helpful, thank you. I have no idea whether my Scottish grandfather could also be considered Canadian. He was posted there with the British military, got married in Canada and also had his first child (my uncle) over there. The family moved back to the UK where my mother was born, and my grandfather was long dead by 1947.

Does that change anything at all? I doubt it but worth a punt. Difficult to argue that an ancestor was Canadian given that term didn't exist when he was alive, though he did have strong ties to the country!

It wouldn't change anything. See hawk39's post above regarding how the first generation is determined.

 

[hawk39]

That's very helpful, thank you. I have no idea whether my Scottish grandfather could also be considered Canadian. He was posted there with the British military, got married in Canada and also had his first child (my uncle) over there. The family moved back to the UK where my mother was born, and my grandfather was long dead by 1947.

Does that change anything at all? I doubt it but worth a punt. Difficult to argue that an ancestor was Canadian given that term didn't exist when he was alive, though he did have strong ties to the country!

In order for your Scottish grandfather as a British Subject to be Canadian, he would have needed to have established permanent residence ("Canadian domicile") in Canada for five years immediately prior to the commencement of the 1947 Act.

Sorry, but it seems that "the deck is stacked against you" in your pursuit of citizenship by descent. The only real chance you have is if your mother acquired citizenship because of the 1977 change I mentioned in the previous post before giving birth to you, because then you would be considered the first generation instead. If you were born before that change, then I'm afraid you really are out of luck.

 

[alphazip]

In order for your Scottish grandfather as a British Subject to be Canadian, he would have needed to have established permanent residence ("Canadian domicile") in Canada for five years immediately prior to the commencement of the 1947 Act.

Sorry, but it seems that "the deck is stacked against you" in your pursuit of citizenship by descent. The only real chance you have is if your mother acquired citizenship because of the 1977 change I mentioned in the previous post before giving birth to you, because then you would be considered the first generation instead. If you were born before that change, then I'm afraid you really are out of luck.

The OP mentioned that his grandmother died in 1951, so the OP's mother couldn't have been born in/after 1977. She (the mother) had an opportunity between 1977 and 2004 to apply for a non-retroactive grant of citizenship, based on being born to a Canadian citizen mother, but the OP would have had to be born after the grant for that to have made him a citizen.

 

[hawk39]

The OP mentioned that his grandmother died in 1951, so the OP's mother couldn't have been born in/after 1977.

I don't think I assumed or wrote that the OP's mother was born in/after 1977...?

She (the mother) had an opportunity between 1977 and 2004 to apply for a non-retroactive grant of citizenship, based on being born to a Canadian citizen mother, but the OP would have had to be born after the grant for that to have made him a citizen.

Yup, that is 5(2)(b) of the 1977 Act, the change I mentioned above.

 

[alphazip]

I don't think I assumed or wrote that the OP's mother was born in/after 1977...?


Yup, that is 5(2)(b) of the 1977 Act, the change I mentioned above.

I see this:

"This was changed in 1977, but the change was not retroactive, so only children born after this change to married Canadian women would gain citizenship."

And this:

"The only real chance you have is if your mother acquired citizenship because of the 1977 change I mentioned in the previous post before giving birth to you, because then you would be considered the first generation instead."

Sorry, but I thought that the 1977 change you were referring to was the recognition of the children, born abroad in/after 1977, of Canadian-citizen mothers, not the temporary (1977-2004) right of those children to apply for grants of citizenship. I simply wanted to make it clear to the OP that 1) the "change" didn't apply to him, because his mother was not born in/after 1977, and 2) his mother could have applied for a grant, which may or may not have helped the OP, depending on when he/she was born.

 

[hawk39]

I see this:

"This was changed in 1977, but the change was not retroactive, so only children born after this change to married Canadian women would gain citizenship."

And this:

"The only real chance you have is if your mother acquired citizenship because of the 1977 change I mentioned in the previous post before giving birth to you, because then you would be considered the first generation instead."

Sorry, but I thought that the 1977 change you were referring to was the recognition of the children, born abroad in/after 1977, of Canadian-citizen mothers, not the temporary (1977-2004) right of those children to apply for grants of citizenship. I simply wanted to make it clear to the OP that 1) the "change" didn't apply to him, because his mother was not born in/after 1977, and 2) his mother could have applied for a grant, which may or may not have helped the OP, depending on when he/she was born.

Ah, I see how my post may seem ambiguous. Thanks for clearing it up .

 

[justcurious_]

Thank you for all your answers. I was born before Canadian citizenship even came into existence and my mother died prior to 1977. I guess that completely rules me out but I now know for sure. It's not going to stop me from considering myself British-Canadian however (which would have been an alien concept to my grandmother!).