Who needs language testing? No-one who wants to immigrate to Canada

[Crelliphit]

This is interesting. I have some Ukrainian friends who were given entry and work visas without any English or French testing at all. They aren't war refugees as they haven't lived in Ukraine for over 10 years. They do have Ukrainian citizenship, but are certainly not refugees.
The best part? They told me they can get the same package as war refugees. My answer to them...go for it. If the Canadian government has so much tax money to throw around...take it and don't feel guilty about doing it. The STUPIDITY medal goes to the Canadian government

 

[scylla]

This is interesting. I have some Ukrainian friends who were given entry and work visas without any English or French testing at all. They aren't war refugees as they haven't lived in Ukraine for over 10 years. They do have Ukrainian citizenship, but are certainly not refugees.
The best part? They told me they can get the same package as war refugees. My answer to them...go for it. If the Canadian government has so much tax money to throw around...take it and don't feel guilty about doing it. The STUPIDITY medal goes to the Canadian government

In most cases language tests are not required for work permits. This is quite normal no matter which country you are from.

For immigrating through economic immigration programs, language tests are required for everyone. This applies to Ukrainians as well.

 

[Crelliphit]

It's amazing in a country which has hang-ups about bi-linguilism that they don't care if you can't speak Canadian English or French before you get a work visa. In the UK the legal rule is that you have to be at least level IB in an internationally recognised test in reading, writing, speaking and comprehension...which makes sense to me. Of course not every immigrant here achieves that. There are always dealers who will forge documentation for a fee.
I'm not sure what you mean by an economic immigration programme. My friends were given 3 year work residence visas in exactly the same way and with exactly the same package as Ukrainian war refugees . No language tests in English or French

 

[scylla]

It's amazing in a country which has hang-ups about bi-linguilism that they don't care if you can't speak Canadian English or French before you get a work visa. In the UK the legal rule is that you have to be at least level IB in an internationally recognised test in reading, writing, speaking and comprehension...which makes sense to me. Of course not every immigrant here achieves that. There are always dealers who will forge documentation for a fee.
I'm not sure what you mean by an economic immigration programme. My friends were given 3 year work residence visas in exactly the same way and with exactly the same package as Ukrainian war refugees . No language tests in English or French

Immigration and work permits are basic concepts and two very different things. Work permits allow you to stay on Canada temporarily and work for a few years. Immigration programs allow you to remain permanently. Your friends have been given work permits to work in Canada temporarily only. The work permits do not allow them to remain permanently. Again, very basic concepts.

Language tests are required for immigrating. This will apply to your friends as well if they eventually want to try to qualify, apply and be selected so that they can stay in Canada permanently.

 

[Crelliphit]

Three years isn't what I would classify as temporary, but perhaps it is in terms of Canadian government basic concepts. Canadian regulations are obviously not as stringent as they are in the UK. Here a basic concept is that is necessary to have an understanding of the language. If you do not have that how are you able to work?
Perhaps Burger King now has its menus written I Canadian English, French, German, Spanish, various Slavic languages, Chinese, Indian dialects etc etc.
I would have thought that language ability was a pretty basic concept when it comes to basic concepts .
Allowing refugees from war torn countries without any language checks is totally different from allowing other nationalities to enter a country without any language ability testing...at least that is my opinion and it is one to which I am entitled.

 

[scylla]

Three years isn't what I would classify as temporary, but perhaps it is in terms of Canadian government basic concepts. Canadian regulations are obviously not as stringent as they are in the UK. Here a basic concept is that is necessary to have an understanding of the language. If you do not have that how are you able to work?
Perhaps Burger King now has its menus written I Canadian English, French, German, Spanish, various Slavic languages, Chinese, Indian dialects etc etc.
I would have thought that language ability was a pretty basic concept when it comes to basic concepts .
Allowing refugees from war torn countries without any language checks is totally different from allowing other nationalities to enter a country without any language ability testing...at least that is my opinion and it is one to which I am entitled.

The three year work permits are certainly temporary. They do not allow someone to stay in Canada permanently.

It seems like you're angry about things you don't fully understand. I can't be bothered to comment any further.

 

[Crelliphit]

The three year work permits are certainly temporary. They do not allow someone to stay in Canada permanently.

It seems like you're angry about things you don't fully understand. I can't be bothered to comment any further.

No nor me... except to say that these days it's much easier to enter Canada than it is the UK...but you don't understand that obviously

 

[tommy_2k23]

No nor me... except to say that these days it's much easier to enter Canada than it is the UK...but you don't understand that obviously

The Ukranians I have interacted with speak flawless English even better than native speakers. In general, Europeans speak execllent English, given a choice, passing exams like IELTS should be a piece of cake for the majority.

 

[Crelliphit]

The Ukranians I have interacted with speak flawless English even better than native speakers. In general, Europeans speak execllent English, given a choice, passing exams like IELTS should be a piece of cake for the majority.

Wow... that means you have spoken with most of the native English speakers? That's quite an achievement . I certainly haven't and there are some regional dialects which I wouldn't be able to classify as flawless or flawed, simply because I cannot understand the dialect. Naturally, that doesn't mean their language skills aren't perfect!
My point is that it a prerequisite to have an English B1 level in spoken, written, reading and comprehension qualification before you are able to apply for a visa in the UK.
Please don't misunderstand me here. I don't have a problem with genuine Ukrainians, or any nationality, who have had to flee their country due to an illegal invasion ordered by a despot. Obviously, I don't expect them to take an English test before seeking sanctuary.
Nor do I have a problem with Ukrainians. I have met 100s and like any nationality there are good and bad. Luckily for me the people I have met, have been lovely and I am proud to call them friends. I only cite that nationality because they are the only non-refugee people I know who have been given 3 year 'temporary' visas without any qualifications
I wonder how many people would be able to pass the B1 language level? I suggest trying a mock test to see which level you can achieve. It's interesting . I did it. There are lots of test examples available online.

 

[tommy_2k23]

Wow... that means you have spoken with most of the native English speakers? That's quite an achievement . I certainly haven't and there are some regional dialects which I wouldn't be able to classify as flawless or flawed, simply because I cannot understand the dialect. Naturally, that doesn't mean their language skills aren't perfect!
My point is that it a prerequisite to have an English B1 level in spoken, written, reading and comprehension qualification before you are able to apply for a visa in the UK.
Please don't misunderstand me here. I don't have a problem with genuine Ukrainians, or any nationality, who have had to flee their country due to an illegal invasion ordered by a despot. Obviously, I don't expect them to take an English test before seeking sanctuary.
Nor do I have a problem with Ukrainians. I have met 100s and like any nationality there are good and bad. Luckily for me the people I have met, have been lovely and I am proud to call them friends. I only cite that nationality because they are the only non-refugee people I know who have been given 3 year 'temporary' visas without any qualifications
I wonder how many people would be able to pass the B1 language level? I suggest trying a mock test to see which level you can achieve. It's interesting . I did it. There are lots of test examples available online.

I am an international student from Germany. The German university requires 6.5 and not less than 6.0 in all modules. I am sure the Ukranians were able to pass this requirement, that's why they were able to study Masters all taught in English language. Because of schooling,the Europeans got exposure to English language as early as 4 years old. That's why the majority of them speak English fleuntly. With a little bit language exposure they can pass B1 level. It is not a diffcult requirement. It is not like we are talking about C1 or C2.

I only cite that nationality because they are the only non-refugee people I know who have been given 3 year 'temporary' visas without any qualifications


I know where you are coming from. We do not live in a perfect world. It is a white Man world. Their countries, their rules and if they make exceptions, so be it. In the end, it is their country. I am discriminated at German airports, shops by germans. I should not complain , in the end, I decidied to come to study and live in Germany. If I go through a racial profile search through an American airlines at a Heathrow airport, in the end, it was me who had decided to visit the USA.

The USA has killed 80000 Pakistanis including school going children in drone sttacks, how many international channels in the western world had covered the news of such human killings. Zero. But for Ukraine war like a white man life is more superior than that of a South Asian. Humans are humans. But24/7 news coverage for Ukraine war.

If Canada govt is allowing Ukrainian refugees without any restrictions then their country their rules. Simple as that.

No country is forcing no one to come and live in their country. We all make individual decisions

 

[Crelliphit]

I really don't want to get into a political discussion about the situation.
If you read my comment you should be able to note that I stated. I don't expect REFUGEES from any country to be required to have attained a certain level in the English language. They are seeking sanctuary on a temporary basis not looking to settle in a country permanently. Theoretically,
The Canadian government is "encouraging" Ukrainians to enter their country by offering them a benefits package on arrival. Excellent offer and one for which they can be applauded.
What I don't understand is why they are also offering the same package and easy entry to Ukrainians who have not lived in their land of birth for many years. Why are those immigrants any different from potential immigrants from any country in the world?
Is this the Canadian Government trying to show the world how wonderful/ beneficial/ compassionate/ considerate/helpful it can be towards any Ukrainians? Why are they the exceptions? Do they give all non-refugee immigrants
the same assistance? Isn't that act a form of enticement?

 

[tommy_2k23]

What I don't understand is why they are also offering the same package and easy entry to Ukrainians who have not lived in their land of birth for many years. Why are those immigrants any different from potential immigrants from any country in the world?

They go by the document evidence. If they have an Ukrainian passport, that's it, They are Ukranians so their laws are applicable for them.
For example, there are Ukrainians who have been living in Germany for years, completed their studies here and worked here.
However, they are applying for refugee applications to Canada. Since Canadian Laws allow them so.

My Germany born English teacher has two passports German passport and American passport. She kept American one because she could find a job easily in the USA if she had decied to move there permanently. If American law allows you to have the American passport without giving up your birth passport, would you not have it? Of course, you would.

Sometimes luck lady is kind towards you , sometimes you win a lottery without doing anything. Those Ukranians are lucky ones.

 

[Crelliphit]

I know how the Canadian system works in this situation
I also have a slight understanding of Canadian systems, having lived their briefly. I have to admit that Canadian winters were too much for me to last for even a "temporary" period.

I'm not really interested in the US from what I hear via my various American friends, the situation with regards to immigration is total chaos. That's their opinion anyway and they are Americans born and bred.

I know that all you need as a Ukrainian is Ukranian citizenship to enter Canada easily. It doesn't seem to matter how long it is since you last lived in the land of your birth and the Canadian government will help with accomodation, jobs and give you money

My dilemma here, is that, in my humble opinion, it is very unjust. It discriminates against potential immigrants from other countries.

I don't blame any non-refugee Ukranians who are taking advantage of the Canadian begging bowl. I just don't think it's fair...it's as simple as that.

Do they do the same for non-refugees from Afghanistan or Sudan who haven't lived in those countries for many years? Is the government of Canada even giving refugees from Afghanistan or Sudan refuge in Canada? What about the millions of refugees in other parts of the world? Are they helped? You can't pretend to be philanthropic when this only extends to a select part of the world...which coincidentally is constantly in the news.

It's the hypocrisy of it all which annoys me. Is the government stacking up brownie points in heaven? "Look at us, Oh Lord our God and be mightily pleased. We are the masters of philanthropy and allow any passport holders from one particular country, to enter our Kingdom"
I'm just glad the UK government doesn't take the same approach.

Hypocrisy of the first order IMO.

My advice to any of my Ukrainian friends living in Europe? Take the Canadian Government for anything you can get out of them! It's all free.

 

[tommy_2k23]

Well, they are just trying to hide their true face. Everyone knows that why NATO exists and what is the purpose of it. To serve western interests.

At least they can not openly admit to Ukranians that hey we were trying to use your land too for our own interests but we got caught beforehand by Russia. We abandoned you in the middle of the hell since we chickened out as our oppoenet was Russia.

Now we can do is we are tying to lessen your emotional pain by giving you a total free ride in our country since your country is new Afghanistan in Europe.

In sum, the Ukranians have got lucky.in so many ways and they should always be thankful to God for it.

I am not sure if refugees anywhere else in the world will have such a free ride to the western countries.

Even Refugees from Sriya do not have it easy. They are begging on the streets in cold weather. At the end of the day, all they earn is 10-20 euros in coins.

 

[Crelliphit]

Well I honestly can't agree that Ukrainians living in the country prior to Putin's illegal invasion, "got lucky" Their country has been decimated by a delusional, evil man. Their homes have been destroyed, their schools and hospitals blasted, their personal possessions lost for eternity.The only thing I think that they can thank god for, is still being alive. My heart goes out to them and I applaud any countries which are giving them some solace by providing refuge.

As I have stated, I don't understand why the Canadian government is providing the same benefits to Ukranians who have lived and worked safely in other European countries for many years. For me that just unfair on moral or any other grounds. Why are they different from any potential immigrants in any other country?

Why does the government think it's acceptable to give easy access, 3 year "temporary" permits to non refugees originally from Ukraine, but not non-refugees from other countries?

No-one has answered that question for me and all of the immigration ministers and deputy ministers to whom I have written, haven't even had the common decency to send a generic "how dare you question our actions" reply. Just about sums up politicians. They forget they are here today and gone tomorrow. In 10 years time who will remember their names? They are victims of their own self-aggrandisement
Whilst their names will be forgotten, their unfair actions will not be.

It appears to me that not only politicians, but Canadian citizens in general don't understand this inequality of opportunity. If my assessment is incorrect, why aren't they doing something? That's the purpose of democracy... don't just accept, question. It's our right as free citizens.