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When must i be back to Canada?

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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I am getting very stressed out by this conversation. I suffer with Complex PTSD and this has upset me a great deal. I think I will leave this site as too negative.
I do have evidence from police, counsellors and GP here to explain what I was doing. I could not have returned between the interviews as was mentally ill. I was unemployed and suffering as many abuse survivors do. Any decent human being would understand that.
Your situation is obviously difficult, complicated, involving a tangle of multiple issues and multiple problems. It is not likely anyone here intends to be discouraging; no one is being deliberately negative or disparaging.

I do not know what support you have in your current circumstances. It might help if you have someone with you who is providing some support, to be with you when you read and assess what is discussed here. It appears there is some RISK you will not be in full compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, and thus it can be important for you to understand the issues, how the process works, and prepare as best you can given the circumstances. You likely need some support going through this. I hope you have or can find some support.

As stressful and difficult it is to directly address potential problems you might encounter, participants here are trying to help you understand how the PR Residency Obligation works and how to BEST protect your status.

Thus, most of what has been posted so far is in response to the original query:

I am now very scared as do not want to lose my PR status. When must I return to Canada to prevent losing my status. As my card expires on August 28, 2022, does that mean I can safely return up until August 2020 and then remain in Canada permanently?
The answer to this is basically a technical one recognizing that the SAFE approach is to avoid any breach of the PR Residency Obligation.

Sometimes a PR cannot avoid a breach of the PR RO. What alternatives there are, in that event, is a separate matter, which is largely about what is referred to as "H&C grounds," as in Humane and Compassionate reasons for allowing someone to keep their PR status DESPITE failing to comply with the PR RO. BUT H&C cases are typically tricky and can be quite difficult and there are NO guarantees. So most of us here will emphasize the importance, IF POSSIBLE, of staying in compliance with the RO, with what FOR SURE works.

It is thus important to understand that IF the day you return to Canada you have NOT been in Canada for at least 730 days in the five year time period before that day, you will NOT be in compliance with the RO. That is largely technical, a matter of counting days IN or OUTSIDE Canada during the five years preceding that day.

It is true that upon arrival at a PoE you might or might not be questioned about RO compliance. As the CBSA officer said, "they usually don't question people with valid PR cards," which is consistent with my own experience and apparently with yours as well.

HOWEVER, even though PRs returning to Canada with a valid PR card are not "usually" questioned about RO compliance there is a RISK you will be questioned.

BUT to be clear, the main reason the CBSA agent could truthfully say "they usually don't question people with valid PR cards," is mostly because PRs with a valid PR card are USUALLY in compliance with the RO and there is no reason to suspect otherwise, no reason to question the PR about RO compliance. Thus my own experience, never being questioned about RO compliance in the many dozens of times I returned to Canada from abroad while I was a PR, is readily explained by the fact that there was never any reason to suspect, in the least, I might have a RO compliance issue.

In contrast, when a PR arrives at a PoE and that PR is, as a matter of fact, in breach of the RO, in that the PR has been outside Canada more than 60% of the time during the preceding five years, that is often fairly apparent . . . that is, in particular, there are often, and perhaps "usually," some easily noticed indicators, some reasons to suspect a RO compliance issue and to make inquiries about that. The most salient indicator is returning to Canada after a lengthy absence, especially where the PR was last in Canada more than a year or two ago. (If it has been three years or more, that is more than an indicator, since a three year absence means the PR has for sure failed to comply with the RO.)

Thus, the longer it has been since you were last in Canada, the bigger the RISK the CBSA officers will ask questions about RO compliance when you arrive. To be clear, there are other factors which can influence how much RISK there is . . . for example, we do not know what precisely an officer sees on the monitor when screening a returning PR (among other information, my impression is they see at least the last date of entry and which PoE that was at) . . . but we do know that PRs with valid PR cards are sometimes referred to Secondary and examined as to RO compliance.

Thus, the only guaranteed, NO RISK way to protect status is to avoid any breach of the PR RO.

Leading back to this: What is required to avoid a breach of the PR RO is a STRICTLY TECHNICAL matter, a matter of counting days on the calendar, counting the number of days you were physically IN Canada versus the number of days outside Canada. This calculation does NOT take into consideration other factors. It does NOT take into consideration WHY a PR has spent so much time outside Canada. It does NOT take into consideration how difficult the PR's personal circumstances might be. It ONLY COUNTS DAYS, days IN Canada, days outside Canada, during the five years immediately preceding the day the counting takes place . . . which is mostly about the day a PR like you (with a valid PR card in possession) arrives at a PoE when returning to Canada from abroad.

So again, the best way, the FOR SURE way to protect your Canadian PR status, is stay in compliance with the PR RO. And the only SURE WAY to accomplish that is by making sure you are never outside Canada so long that you fail to have spent at least 730 days IN Canada within the previous five years.


IF YOU CANNOT RETURN IN TIME TO AVOID A BREACH OF THE RO; POSSIBLE RELIEF BASED ON H&C REASONS:

Strictly complying with the PR RO does not cover all the angles in your situation. It addresses just one. It is only about whether or not you are in breach of the PR RO when you arrive at a PoE. It is, nonetheless, a hugely important aspect of your situation: IF, a BIG IF, perhaps the most important IF, IF you can return to Canada in time to avoid being in breach of the PR RO, that is your BEST INSURANCE, your best way to make sure your PR status is protected. That will FOR SURE allow you to continue being a Canadian PR.

But STUFF happens. Sometimes there are compelling reasons why a PR must be abroad more than three years in a five year time span. Canada allows some accommodation for PRs who encounter such difficulties.

Thus, if you cannot return to Canada in time to avoid being in breach of the PR RO, that does NOT necessarily mean you will lose PR status. But, to be clear, it does mean there is some risk you could lose PR status.

Thus, among other angles in your situation is the question about whether you can keep PR status even if you do NOT fully comply with the PR RO, and if so, how. Again, this is largely about what is referred to as "H&C grounds," as in Humane and Compassionate reasons for allowing someone to keep their PR status DESPITE failing to comply with the PR RO.

H&C reasons for allowing a PR to keep status despite a breach of the RO is itself a big and complicated subject. For now, for here, the main thing is that before a PR will have his or her PR status taken away, Canadian officers MUST consider whether there are H&C reasons why the PR should be allowed to keep status. And this will take into consideration all the circumstances in your situation, the reasons for being abroad and your personal difficulties. This will take into consideration how long you have lived in Canada overall, not just the previous five years. This will take into consideration how difficult it would be for you if you are not allowed to keep PR status.

Participants in this forum rarely suggest relying on this relief because there is no guarantee. The only guarantee is to never be outside Canada so much that there is a technical breach of the RO.


AN OBSERVATION ABOUT HOW THE RULES HAVE CHANGED OVER THE YEARS:

When you first came to Canada more than three decades ago, the rules for Permanent Residents were quite different than they have been for nearly two decades now. For nearly two decades now the PR Residency Obligation has been based strictly on COUNTING DAYS, as I have attempted to fully illuminate above. Previously other factors were relevant, like the individual person's intentions. Not now. Just the number of days IN Canada within the previous FIVE years. But as I also tried to illuminate above, when a PR fails to meet the RO based on counting days, they MIGHT (but only *might*) be allowed to keep PR status for H&C reasons (and for this, yes, the many years spent living in Canada does count).

I wish you well. I hope you have some support to help you.
 

evdm

Hero Member
Jun 16, 2017
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I do not wish to harp on the subject, but unfortunately the system can be cruel. @dpenabill has a very well reasoned and elaborate response and provides valuable insights.

Nobody here can tell you what to do or what will happen. The facts as I see them are that you will potentially breach the residency obligation. This becomes a fact when you have been away from Canada for 1095 days in the last 5 years.

When you cross the border, interacting with CBSA, there are a few scenarios that could play out:

- you could be admitted with no question
- the Primary Inspection Line (PIL) Officer may ask how long you've been away (to which you should always give an honest answer)
* the PIL Officer may ask further questions about the duration of your absence deciding whether to admit you with no further examination
* the PIL Officer may refer you to secondary noting your long absence and a possible breach of the Residency Obligation
- the Secondary officer may investigate your absence further and ask for the reasons why you were absent
* the Secondary Officer may consider these reasons sufficient not to warrant a report and admit you
* the Secondary Officer may consider that the reasons do not suffice to avoid being reported, and a report is made up and the process started to remove you from Canada, however you will be admitted.

CBSA officers here have discretionary powers. They may choose whether or not your reasons carry sufficient weight on humanitarian and compassionate grounds to avoid starting the removal process. Should the process be started, however, you still have grounds for an appeal which would lead to yet more review of your case.

While I may not have given you the answer you want to hear, this my opinion based on my understanding of the process. Unfortunately, until you come back to Canada, you will not have any certainty as to what will happen.
 
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vensak

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I met the requirement for last PR card so not out of status at all. I met the two out of five year requirement to get that card. I am fairly sure I need to be back in January, 2020. I have to meet two years out of five. I applied for last PR card and had no issue meeting requirements. Card expired January, 2017. I had no problem getting new one. You have to meet two out of five years for each new period. I shall play it safe and go back in January. I will then meet the 2 year period I need.
wrong your last card application from I assume 2016 needed just 2 years out of 5 as well. Those 2 years did not had to be consecutive or prior application itself. So technically it would have been possible to have time from 2012 - 2014 just to hit requirements. Also they do not check your situation after you have sent your application (they do not check what were you doing in 2016 after applying for it). Just because you were able to renew your card in 2016 /2017 does not mean that right now you do meet the residency obligation.
However if you stayed in Canada until that January 2017 (give it or take some short holiday abroad), the rule of thumb would be somewhere close to end of 2019 latest (depends on how much time were you outside of Canada between 2015-2017).

Just like other said, a valid PR card tells nothing about you meeting or not residency obligation.

On a side note. I would say, that costs for renewing PR cards over those 31 years were higher than one proper citizenship application. (your should be somewhere around 6th or 7th PR card by now).
 
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