What's it like to live in Canada?

[browntrout]

AAL1984, where do you live then? assuming you live in Canada?

 

[fkl]

Thank you canadavisa13. There is no question of taking back the decision. I am just trying to get best possible info plus get to know localities to make informed decisions so things are easy for us to settle down.

I actually have 3 kids (two toddlers) along with the elder one we have talked about.

Really appreciate the input

 

[Bargeld]

AAL1984, where do you live then? assuming you live in Canada?

His post history says Calgary. I don't meet many people in Calgary like him, but I do find an old post of his rather ironic:

HAHA this is a cool thread, my wife is also an American, she's from Houston, she's always lived in the southern USA.

However, (and this did shock me a bit) she's adjusted well to the whole climate thing. We got some pretty cold days here in November in Calgary, where for about 3 days it went down to -25 C (with the wind chill).

She was ok with it, (she has top of the line winter cloths and boots), she told me "as long as I have good winter cloths on I don't really feel it".

She also said "Id rather have this than the Houston July humidity, there is only so many cloths you can take of in the summer".

I was a little surprised, but I do understand. I went to Houston in June and almost died from the heat and humidity it made me more miserable than the winters up here.


My wife is a proud American and loves Houston, but she admitted to me she could never go back. She's shocked by the peaceful life up here, cleanliness and low crime rate. (Growing up in Houston she has seen and heard of a lot of crime, despite living in a nice suburb).

Well it sucks but we'll wait, I sure as hell don't want to go live in the States.

So either this person is a troll, or probably bi-polar and goes through these instant oatmeal "love"/"hate" episodes.

Anyhow, logical suggestion is to spend some time in Canada and formulate your own opinion. Nothing will beat that.

 

[AAL1984]

His post history says Calgary. I don't meet many people in Calgary like him, but I do find an old post of his rather ironic:

So either this person is a troll, or probably bi-polar and goes through these instant oatmeal "love"/"hate" episodes.

Anyhow, logical suggestion is to spend some time in Canada and formulate your own opinion. Nothing will beat that.

You must really have no time on your hands in order to dig
through old posts. But yes I did write that and yes I totally take it back. Who says I can't change my mind! US is not limited to hot and humid Texas, SoCal has the best climate on Earth. US economy has also started booming again, and we're laying people off here in Calgary because we've realized they won't need much of our oil due to Balkan fields. At big 4 accounting firm they've lost tons of clients and will be laying off lots of people. Same thing in other energy/mining companies, that will have ripple effect everywhere.

Also that was 2 yrs ago, wife was happy then but even she is sick of the snow now, and wants to move back.

I'm only in Calgary due to a good job here.

 

[Bargeld]

You must really have no time on your hands in order to dig
through old posts. But yes I did write that and yes I totally take it back. Who says I can't change my mind! US is not limited to hot and humid Texas, SoCal has the best climate on Earth. US economy has also started booming again, and we're laying people off here in Calgary because we've realized they won't need much of our oil due to Balkan fields. At big 4 accounting firm they've lost tons of clients and will be laying off lots of people. Same thing in other energy/mining companies, that will have ripple effect everywhere.

Also that was 2 yrs ago, wife was happy then but even she is sick of the snow now, and wants to move back.

I'm only in Calgary due to a good job here.

It took me a minute of skimming a search to find that post.

Funny, I work in the oil/gas industry too in Calgary, and we're hiring more people.

Having lived in California all but a small handful of years of my life, Socal weather is nice, but there's a reason why they constantly live under water shortages/droughts and need to take water from Northern Cal / other parts of the state. Water shortages will only get worse there -- those many extremely sunny days come at a price.

The USA economy though is not booming, it's artificially being held up from a natural deep recession by Fed stimulus such as QE, bankrolled by the US government. US economic fundamentals have gotten substantially worse than before the 2008 recession, the US can barely create part time retail/fast food jobs to keep up with the full time lower/middle class jobs that are being lost/offshored. The US is an extreme borrow and consume country economically, it is not a producing/saving one -- this is not sustainable in the long run, and either the US will have to get their economic house in order, and take the bad medicine now, or take the much harder road later by mangling their own currency at the behest of short term reckless debt financed stimulus. Cost of goods and services, while not as high as Canada in many areas, still have substantially risen since I left to Canada. Gas prices remain increasing despite lower consumption of fuel. China is looking to unload it's US debt for more tangible assets knowing full well US currency won't be worth much down the road.

There are good sides to the US, especially for the very short term, but long term fundamentals point to disaster for that country's economy, and that's before ever getting to their healthcare system which is an absolute mess. There is no political nor populace will to resolve their primary problems -- debt and consumption. Americans are busy fighting over Zimmerman, Obamacare, etc.

 

[AAL1984]

Look I'm happy for you and I'm glad you like my country so much, good for you. Some people really like living in Africa, or Bangladesh etc whatever country works for an individual is obviously a very personal thing. It's good you've found your groove in Canada. It's actually kind of nice to hear good comments from an American, most laugh at Canada and couldn't care less about it. So great, all the best to you.

In my anti Canada posts I'm not really speaking to White Americans, any White American who moves to Canada will have totally different reasons for doing so vs a minority such as an Arab, Paki/Indian Chinese etc.

White people from America will also have a totally different experience in Canada vs a minority, they also tend to be strongly opinionated in terms of their views about the US government and tend to be lefties excited by the fact that Canada allowed gay marriage before the US.

You're just an immigrant on paper, in reality no different than a White Canadian.



Yes there are some economists who think US is screwed others think it'll be just fine, time will tell.


I'm just speaking to the real immigrants out there, the vast majority who are non Western and non white. I've met many and heard their crushing experiences in Canada. I think it's brutal Canada robs well educated skilled people from their countries only to have them come here and drive cabs or work security jobs.

We all lose when a Pakistani doctor comes here and works at a gas station, Pakistan loses and so does Canada. Even after passing all exams these people can't find a residency position, yet Canada brought them over due to their qualifications, that wouldn't happen in US.


Also in speaking to well educated minorities it's obvious they wanted to go to US, it's bloody difficult and time consuming to get a greencard through employer or education in US. You can do a PHD there, doesn't mean you'll get permanent residency. So that's why they immigrate here. If tomorrow US opened up its greencard program no Chinese, Indian or Pino is coming to Canada.

Further weather is brutal in Canada for people coming from warm climates, they don't realize how bad until they get here.

My only point is before you give up that doctor/engineer or other great job in India, China or Turkey, visit Canada and explore it a bit. Realize Canada is NOT the US. Things are expensive so bring lots of cash if you intend to move.

Just look at East Indians in Canada vs US. In US Indians are respected doctors , lawyers, or businessmen their kids go to top US schools. In BC we see Indian youth involved in drug crimes and shootings, you'd never see that in Indian Americans. Lack of opportunities leads to crime and gangs.

 

[Bargeld]

Look I'm happy for you and I'm glad you like my country so much, good for you. Some people really like living in Africa, or Bangladesh etc whatever country works for an individual is obviously a very personal thing. It's good you've found your groove in Canada. It's actually kind of nice to hear good comments from an American, most laugh at Canada and couldn't care less about it. So great, all the best to you.

In my anti Canada posts I'm not really speaking to White Americans, any White American who moves to Canada will have totally different reasons for doing so vs a minority such as an Arab, Paki/Indian Chinese etc.

White people from America will also have a totally different experience in Canada vs a minority, they also tend to be strongly opinionated in terms of their views about the US government and tend to be lefties excited by the fact that Canada allowed gay marriage before the US.

You're just an immigrant on paper, in reality no different than a White Canadian.

Yes there are some economists who think US is screwed others think it'll be just fine, time will tell.

I'm just speaking to the real immigrants out there, the vast majority who are non Western and non white. I've met many and heard their crushing experiences in Canada. I think it's brutal Canada robs well educated skilled people from their countries only to have them come here and drive cabs or work security jobs.

We all lose when a Pakistani doctor comes here and works at a gas station, Pakistan loses and so does Canada. Even after passing all exams these people can't find a residency position, yet Canada brought them over due to their qualifications, that wouldn't happen in US.


Also in speaking to well educated minorities it's obvious they wanted to go to US, it's bloody difficult and time consuming to get a greencard through employer or education in US. You can do a PHD there, doesn't mean you'll get permanent residency. So that's why they immigrate here. If tomorrow US opened up its greencard program no Chinese, Indian or Pino is coming to Canada.

Further weather is brutal in Canada for people coming from warm climates, they don't realize how bad until they get here.

My only point is before you give up that doctor/engineer or other great job in India, China or Turkey, visit Canada and explore it a bit. Realize Canada is NOT the US. Things are expensive so bring lots of cash if you intend to move.

Just look at East Indians in Canada vs US. In US Indians are respected doctors , lawyers, or businessmen their kids go to top US schools. In BC we see Indian youth involved in drug crimes and shootings, you'd never see that in Indian Americans. Lack of opportunities leads to crime and gangs.

Actually, we all lose when a Pakistani or Indian doctor comes to Canada and rather than diagnosing and prescribing medication if needed, they instead recommend some spiritual yoga crap on Youtube that has nothing to do with medicine nor science at all. This very thing happened to me more than once back in Ontario.

I'm glad you like my country and all, but in the US immigrants who follow the rules get crapped on in that country, whereas those who commit immigrant fraud and do an AOS far more often than not get away with it, and have a free ride under both the progressive tax system and welfare system under the advice of religious dioceses and leftist lawyers.

Ironically, my first experience in Calgary (I landed in Ontario and lived there first) was going to a TD bank to withdraw rent money and having my head talked off by a teller who was of Indian descent. I looked obviously different from her but it didn't matter, she not only asked what area I was looking into to give me advice (without too much regard for the line, lol), but gave me her number in case I needed help finding a place or needed to know where things were. Most people that look different from me in Calgary are nice, and I see little conflict at all, they don't segregate themselves as much as in the US, or even in the GTA.

Canada being stringent about local credentials makes sense, when it comes to certification and specific training, another thing entirely when it's general experience. When you have a ton of Indians, for example, in droves coming to Brampton because other people look like them and they get word people "like them" live there, and many of them carry the same type of foreign degrees (engineering/comp sci and IT) I don't feel bad, the market doesn't move for individuals, they either go where the jobs are or deal with the shortage in the area they're in because they're competing with a *censored word* ton of people with similar background for the same jobs.

As for Indian gangs and crimes, you obviously have never been to an Indian community in the US -- I have, I worked next door to it, meet Sunnyvale.

http://blog.sfgate.com/crime/2012/03/30/sunnyvale-murder-suspect-may-have-fled-to-india/

Police are looking for a San Jose man they believe fled to India after allegedly shoving a woman out of his SUV and running her over in Sunnyvale.

Witnesses told officers they saw someone shove 28-year-old Jennifer Flores out of an Acura MDX at about 11:30 p.m. Sunday on the 1300 block of Socorro Avenue. She was taken to Santa Clara Valley Medical Center in San Jose, where she died.

Investigators identified the driver as Pawanjit Singh, 25, but learned that he had boarded a flight to India on Monday, said Capt. David Verbrugge. The FBI and U.S. Marshals are trying to bring him back.

I wouldn't consider the US so heavenly when you stand a much higher chance of a violent crime happening to you there, stand a much higher chance of having to pay out of pocket for healthcare on top of having insurance, and while many countries will suffer when the US economy logically goes down the crapshoot again in the near future, none will suffer as much as Americans. The American media talks to Americans like they're idiots (WYSIWYG), American politics mainly boils down to two extremes, as far as the common folk are concerned, otherwise while the two extremes (99% of the populace) fight amongst each other over issues like Zimmerman and Miley Cyrus, these politicians are busy golfing with each other and having dinners with the same contributors and finding new ways to siphon current taxpayer funds as well as future liabilities toward the (already) rich.

Canada has similar problems to the US, but fundamentally, Canada is in far superior shape. The CAD lacking reserve currency status aids in Canada needing to maintain a far more realistic economy. The US has been able to put up an economic dog and pony show, but it's plain pony and isn't a free ride -- it would benefit people moving to the US to look at the future, and not simply the immediate.

 

[browntrout]

some very emotional responses here....

Anyhow, Canada is a large country. I've lived in 3 states in the US, and all were completely different. Being such a large place, there will be a place for most everyone.

 

[corazon3]

Bargeld is a troll on CIC's payroll. Don't feed the troll.

 

[AAL1984]

It's insanely cold in Calgary, brrrrrr, what a miserable climate this is. Crap will go on until April.

Who the hell wants 6 months of winter? Weather alone is reason enough to move outta here. Bloody Americans took all the nice livable parts of North America, left us to freeze our ass off and huddle close to border for warmth.

You can't go outside, just running from office to car, car to home.

 

[Bargeld]

Bargeld is a troll on CIC's payroll. Don't feed the troll.

Still awaiting my first cheque...

Got any more theories, Alex Jones?

 

[fkl]

Wow the discussion has gotten really hot and even getting personal.

I just hope we all could get back to moderate behaviors accepting differences as each other opinions with regard to the individual experiences which can always be unique.

Though i found the part regarding Pakistani / Indian doctors recommending spiritual yoga as kinda funny and unusual (no disrespect though please).

There is one important thing that i would want every one out there to know. The mass of people moving out of Subcontinent or otherwise are NOT THE BEST lot of the people. It takes a lot to plan and give your own local culture, comfort, ease of dealing and a lot of other things. It true that being part of developed world with lots of corruption we definitely have our share of problems many of which have solutions in the developed world. But if you are making a good living and over all life in India / Pak, it takes a lot to plan and decide upon moving any where and it is certainly not a bed of roses despite the fact that this is coming from a professional respect from his work and credited irrespective from location.

Unfortunately, it is far easier for those with nothing to lose back home (the world class losers) to find a way to get across. I am amazed how weird immigration policies fail to catch any of those guys and people like me with every details and perfect document takes hell lot of verification and time to get through. This really puts a bad name to the country as well.

So a really qualified doctor from here (who scored well and worked really hard through top schools in the country) would be more than sensible and putting a lot of effort perfectly his skill. I would argue he has more reasons to work harder and prove his worth.

For me going to Canada was never a dream, nor it is now, like i see written all over the forums. It was just a job opportunity that looked better over all for me compared to my existing well established position in my home country. It might would have been a bit better in the short term had it been in the US, but the reasons are completely different i.e. US being better and center of technology market, even better pays, opportunities for entrepreneurship etc. along with no issues like French for kids. I certainly understand cost of education in US and medical being among the negatives, but i would also argue that if you are in a good industry with a decent job, most of medical is company sponsored. Also i know a lot less about Canada and am looking forward to explore it. Who knows it might turn really positive from what i know now.

To me all above opinions seem valuable. The only problem seems to be a bit of stereo typing and making generalizations.

I really believe US or Canada or other developed countries are developed because of a list of qualities that are found dominant in their people. One of them is tolerance and patience towards differences.

Extremism is some thing underprivileged nations a labeled to be full with. I hope to see some improvement in those from developed world including this forum

Am i expecting too much?

 

[AAL1984]

FKL since you have a job offer I think God willing you will probably have a better experience. Main issue immigrants have is not finding work in their industry, but since you've got one things should be easier for you.


Everyone has their opinions and perspectives. I'm glad you've mentally prepared yourself and realized that Canada( Quebec is a very different and unique part of the country, many there wish to separate and form their own nation) is no dream like paradise.

Be prepared for the cold weather and rudeness of the French. I just personally hate Quebec and the corrupt lazy government there, very socialist communist type attitude, lots of red tape and bureaucracy . Quebecors are very different from Canadians. Quebec is also very anti entrepreneurial, a heavily taxed *censored word*hole.


Unfortunately as a brown person and Muslim you need to be ready to face racism from the French, they don't like Muslims there. It is common for women wearing hijab to get dirty looks, some people even yell at them. That's because there are so many losers on welfare in Quebec, French White trash basically. They have no jobs and the economy in Quebec is really bad, so they pick on foreigners.

It's funny I was with my wife in Houston Texas( a place people think is racist) and I saw so many Muslims there, women in hijabs and burkas. I was shocked that no one says anything to them and people were so friendly, amazing customer service. People smiling and thanking you for your business. I also found the Muslims in Texas to be very well off and wealthy, you should see the kind of houses and cars these guys had. Their well integrated into the economy. That's what I love about America , no one gives a *censored word* where you are from, if you have talent and are willing to work hard you will succeed. Cost of living is also much lower than Canada even if you have to buy your own health plan, also most employers will provide that anyway.

 

[fkl]

Thanks AAL1984. I hope it turns good since it took a lot of effort and time.

But to begin with, i won't have been going if i didn't have a job. Gosh, if for some reason i have a bad time or really feel we are not comfortable, i would be ready to come back contrary to what mostly people start suggesting, like doing odd jobs and what not.

Thanks to Allah, i don't have to and frankly it doesn't make sense to do those since i would make far more in my home country, gosh rather far better doing free lance work online sitting any where in the world.

I have heard a lot about Quebec so far. I am just hoping Montreal over all is better being a big City with places like Mc Gill and stuff.

Cold weather is certainly going to be some thing new, but may be i haven't realized its severeness. At the moment it doesn't seem that bad given the fact that in Pakistan 24 hour electricity has turned into a mighty problem in the recent years and having a back up source which can runs fans well (if not air conditioners) is a great blessing. Thank God we have had a good supply but summers seem to be much of a trouble psychologically for me at the moment.

I understand Quebec is more heavily taxed. But to some extend you do get taxes paid back in the sense of free quality medical care (though i am worried about the waiting times since i have heard stories too) as well as free education.

In Pakistan, we have very low taxes and it is the salaried class which pays taxes only. But cost of schooling, medical and stuff really take huge chunks. Though i can say because we are fortunate enough to buy premium medical care, we seldom have much time to wait. Let's see how that goes in Canada.

Yes i would be brown with a beard. But i would probably be able to talk to any one who wants to talk reasonably in any way and happily accept differences. Yeah my spouse would cover her head. But she probably is as educated and informed as any business woman from the modern US and would be able to talk to others unless they really take her head on.

The part of people being on welfare is interesting. I mean why are they blaming immigrants for that? The way i see it, when my visas were delayed due to poor practices by the embassy in Pakistan plus some mistake by my employer's lawyer in Canada, my employer reached out to two different MP's and directly CIC to get it sorted out and the process kept going on for like 6 months extra. In total i am going a year after my original date of job offer. This at least tells me how badly my employer needs these skills which they obviously need for a business reason they are hoping to make with the clients in the US. So clearly there are no Canadians skilled enough to perform these roles. I really don't think i am some thing exceptional or any thing. I just am experienced and have been doing my stuff for many years. CIC won't (or at least try not to) allow any one without a REAL need to be in Canada as a foreigner. So basically it is people already there who cannot do jobs needed by their economy, let alone think of creating those.

Glad to hear about the Texas thing. I am glad the 9/11 stuff is through though. Plus i got quite a few class fellows who work in California / Seattle at Google / MS etc. and they are pretty happy there. I have heard similar things from them as you pointed out. But i must say i have heard equally good things about Canada as well at least in my domain from areas like Calgary, Vancouver and Kitchener / Waterloo area, again places with either Tech concentration or Oil industry dominance. So i am really looking forward to a good time in Montreal and hope to settle with differences if any.

Thanks a lot for inputs from you all. If not for any one, i am getting to hear a lot of stuff which makes me better informed about the forth coming unseen world. Perhaps i will try to write my experience once there too

Right now i am trying to find a decent place for single living suitable to travel to Saint Nicolas street in Montreal for work as well as comfortable to live for a muslim with no weird habits i.e. smoking, drinking (out of question of course) etc. and perhaps availability of halaal food, being okay to communicate in english.

 

[AAL1984]

FKL I agree with you, actually Canada needs smart people like you and needs you to succeed. It's smart immigrants who come in and pour their talents into the economy, bring fresh ideas, and help create international business contacts. I want smart young immigrants in Canada to succeed and build wealth. I just get really angry when I see doctors from Pakistan driving cabs, it's wrong. If they have the qualifications they should be allowed to do their residency( which is just training) and to work. Some of
the best doctors in America working at Texas medical centre are Pakistanis and other Muslims.

Anyway I'm glad you have a job hopefully all will go well for you as they say InShAlla
Canada needs people like you.