Visitor Visa Advice - India

[Singer 3219]

Good Afternoon,

My husband's brother wants to come visit us here. My husband does not have any family members in Canada. My husband's brother works in Indian Army and will be retiring in March 2020. I'm wondering if his profession would negatively impact the visa officer's decision. I heard that visitor visas for applicants who have held positions in armed forces often get refused.

Please advise.
Thanks,

 

[21Goose]

Visas for defense personnel (retired or active duty) are granted after a longer security and background check. It's not a given that they will be refused, but you need to fill out an additional form. IMM 5257B.

The question they ask is:
"Have you ever witnessed or participated in the ill treatment of prisoners or civilians, looting or desecration of religious buildings?"

If during the security and background check they feel that you may have committed/been party to such actions (say you were active duty in a war zone where these acts were reported), you may be refused.

 

[Singer 3219]

Visas for defense personnel (retired or active duty) are granted after a longer security and background check. It's not a given that they will be refused, but you need to fill out an additional form. IMM 5257B.

The question they ask is:
"Have you ever witnessed or participated in the ill treatment of prisoners or civilians, looting or desecration of religious buildings?"

If during the security and background check they feel that you may have committed/been party to such actions (say you were active duty in a war zone where these acts were reported), you may be refused.

Thanks for your response. Another question is that he is currently going through a divorce. His wife (separated but not divorced) does not want to divorce him and has filed some police complaints against him so that the judge can’t render a decision in their divorce case quickly. Charges against him like asking for dowry are not true at all and have not been proven in the court. My question is do I need to disclose the cases which are filed against him and in court proceedings from last 3 years in his application. He’s not convicted of anything yet. I’m wondering if I don’t mention about those court cases against him, would that render him inadmissible for misrepresentation?

Appreciate your time!!

 

[21Goose]

Thanks for your response. Another question is that he is currently going through a divorce. His wife (separated but not divorced) does not want to divorce him and has filed some police complaints against him so that the judge can’t render a decision in their divorce case quickly. Charges against him like asking for dowry are not true at all and have not been proven in the court. My question is do I need to disclose the cases which are filed against him and in court proceedings from last 3 years in his application. He’s not convicted of anything yet. I’m wondering if I don’t mention about those court cases against him, would that render him inadmissible for misrepresentation?

Appreciate your time!!

You will have to disclose any criminal charges and yes, this will impact your application. If you do not disclose this, it is misrepresentation. Civil cases do not need to be disclosed.

Dowry is a criminal charge in India if it is alleged under S498a of the Indian Criminal Code.

The question is:
"Have you ever committed, been arrested for, been charged with or convicted of any criminal offense in any country or territory?"

 

[Singer 3219]

You will have to disclose any criminal charges and yes, this will impact your application. If you do not disclose this, it is misrepresentation. Civil cases do not need to be disclosed.

Dowry is a criminal charge in India if it is alleged under S498a of the Indian Criminal Code.

The question is:
"Have you ever committed, been arrested for, been charged with or convicted of any criminal offense in any country or territory?"

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It’s extremely helpful.

 

[Bryanna]

Thanks for your response. Another question is that he is currently going through a divorce. His wife (separated but not divorced) does not want to divorce him and has filed some police complaints against him so that the judge can’t render a decision in their divorce case quickly. Charges against him like asking for dowry are not true at all and have not been proven in the court. My question is do I need to disclose the cases which are filed against him and in court proceedings from last 3 years in his application. He’s not convicted of anything yet. I’m wondering if I don’t mention about those court cases against him, would that render him inadmissible for misrepresentation?

Appreciate your time!!

As your husband's brother is close to retirement, I'm assuming he has been married since several years.... unless you meant that he will be applying for voluntary retirement after completing a block of X years of service in the army + he married recently. Anyway

If he has been married for more than 7 years, the dowry charges won't hold.... and wonder how the police and courts accepted such claims of dowry harassment.

Dowry charges are a non-bailable offense. This means your husband's brother cannot possibly travel abroad until the court matter is disposed off. This coupled with his impending retirement, might seem like he wants to move out of India to evade any repercussions in the court cases.

IMO, it would be best if he defers his visit plans to after the divorce matter is decreed + the appeal period passes

 

[Singer 3219]

As your husband's brother is close to retirement, I'm assuming he has been married since several years.... unless you meant that he will be applying for voluntary retirement after completing a block of X years of service in the army + he married recently. Anyway

If he has been married for more than 7 years, the dowry charges won't hold.... and wonder how the police and courts accepted such claims of dowry harassment.

Dowry charges are a non-bailable offense. This means your husband's brother cannot possibly travel abroad until the court matter is disposed off. This coupled with his impending retirement, might seem like he wants to move out of India to evade any repercussions in the court cases.

IMO, it would be best if he defers his visit plans to after the divorce matter is decreed + the appeal period passes

Hi Bryanna,

Yes he has been married for more than 7 years. I don’t have all the details of the charges against him. I do know that he does have to attend court proceedings to comply with his bail terms. I will contact him next week and get all details of charges against him and post them here.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Bryanna]

Hi Bryanna,

Yes he has been married for more than 7 years. I don’t have all the details of the charges against him. I do know that he does have to attend court proceedings to comply with his bail terms. I will contact him next week and get all details of charges against him and post them here.

Thanks for your response.

His lawyer must challenge the legal validity of those dowry harassment charges in the matrimonial court. In doing so, he can get the charges removed/declared null and void.

Basically, he would not want to apply for a visa by stating he has police/criminal charges filed against him

 

[21Goose]

Dowry harassment doesn't have to be filed in the first seven years of marriage. They can be filed anytime during the marriage. They cannot be filed after getting a divorce.

You're thinking of dowry death under S.304B, where a death of the wife under suspicious circumstances (burns, bodily injury) within the first seven years of marriage can be considered a dowry death if there is any proof that the husband/any relative (typically in-laws) harassed the woman. In such cases the burden of proof shifts and the husband has to prove his innocence rather than the prosecution proving his guilt.

A dowry harassment case won't be dismissed just on the grounds that seven years have passed.

 

[21Goose]

And yes, don't bother applying for a visa till all this is cleared up.

 

[Bryanna]

Dowry harassment doesn't have to be filed in the first seven years of marriage. They can be filed anytime during the marriage. They cannot be filed after getting a divorce.

Pretty obvious one cannot file claims of dowry harassment after a divorce.

You're thinking of dowry death under S.304B, where a death of the wife under suspicious circumstances (burns, bodily injury) within the first seven years of marriage can be considered a dowry death if there is any proof that the husband/any relative (typically in-laws) harassed the woman. In such cases the burden of proof shifts and the husband has to prove his innocence rather than the prosecution proving his guilt.

No, I was not thinking about any such dowry death in my previous post.

A dowry harassment case won't be dismissed just on the grounds that seven years have passed.

Maybe you have not understood the Bare Act (legal act) nor the cases that have been filed on such grounds.

As per CrPC468, there is a time limitation of 3 years for filing any claims for harassment and cruelty. If someone was happily married (or even happily co-existing in a marriage) since more than 7 years, she won't wait until a divorce petition to claim that she was harassed and subjected to cruelty for dowry demands.

It would be almost impossible to find a case where the court decreed that there was a genuine demand for dowry after 7 years of marriage. Basically, the genuineness of such "afterthought" dowry harassment claims can be challenged in the court.

I assume the OP's husband's brother has been married for close to 15-20 years. If that is the case, the wife's claims for dowry harassment are highly likely fraudulent. And, counter charges of perjury, defamation, false charges, etc can be filed against her.

As the wife of a defense services personnel (and knowing the culture in the defense services), it would be impossible to believe that the wife did not seek legal recourse in the years of being subjected to harassment and cruelty for dowry. It would be even more amusing if she has made such claims when the OP's husband's brother was living apart from her on a border posting.

Dowry harassment claims are not something that anyone should believe at face value. Section 498A has been blatantly misused by women who seek large alimony or revenge

 

[21Goose]

Pretty obvious one cannot file claims of dowry harassment after a divorce.



No, I was not thinking about any such dowry death in my previous post.



Maybe you have not understood the Bare Act (legal act) nor the cases that have been filed on such grounds.

As per CrPC468, there is a time limitation of 3 years for filing any claims for harassment and cruelty. If someone was happily married (or even happily co-existing in a marriage) since more than 7 years, she won't wait until a divorce petition to claim that she was harassed and subjected to cruelty for dowry demands.

It would be almost impossible to find a case where the court decreed that there was a genuine demand for dowry after 7 years of marriage. Basically, the genuineness of such "afterthought" dowry harassment claims can be challenged in the court.

I assume the OP's husband's brother has been married for close to 15-20 years. If that is the case, the wife's claims for dowry harassment are highly likely fraudulent. And, counter charges of perjury, defamation, false charges, etc can be filed against her.

As the wife of a defense services personnel (and knowing the culture in the defense services), it would be impossible to believe that the wife did not seek legal recourse in the years of being subjected to harassment and cruelty for dowry. It would be even more amusing if she has made such claims when the OP's husband's brother was living apart from her on a border posting.

Dowry harassment claims are not something that anyone should believe at face value. Section 498A has been blatantly misused by women who seek large alimony or revenge

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. In point of fact, I actually do have a law degree in India (from one of the National Law Schools), and I have studied the IPC and CrPC.

The three year limit under CrPC 468 applies from the commission of an offense. In case of a marriage, the offense of dowry harassment may happen anytime during the marriage. By your logic, if the husband didn't harass the wife for 3 years, but did start harassing her after that, she cannot claim dowry harassment. The clock doesn't start ticking on the day of the marriage - it starts ticking on the commission of the offense.

Now, I'm not saying that the wife isn't harassing the husband. I have no idea of the facts. The court may well throw the case out.

However, it is not correct to say that a dowry harassment case must be filed within the first seven years of marriage. This is factually incorrect. S498a has no such limitation.

 

[Bryanna]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. In point of fact, I actually do have a law degree in India (from one of the National Law Schools), and I have studied the IPC and CrPC.

I disagree with your understanding of reality in cases of Sec. 498A. And, yes, I have studied the Law myself (not just one specific legal specialization) and I have applied it pretty successfully to cases in different countries.

The three year limit under CrPC 468 applies from the commission of an offense. In case of a marriage, the offense of dowry harassment may happen anytime during the marriage.

Agreed.

By your logic, if the husband didn't harass the wife for 3 years, but did start harassing her after that, she cannot claim dowry harassment.

Can you show me where I said that?

The clock doesn't start ticking on the day of the marriage - it starts ticking on the commission of the offense.

Did I say this too?

Assuming there was genuine harassment even after X years of marriage, the wife should have filed the charges of harassment when it happened.... and not waited for a complete breakdown in the marriage - of more than 7+ years - to make such purported claims. This again would question the integrity of those claims.

Now, I'm not saying that the wife isn't harassing the husband. I have no idea of the facts. The court may well throw the case out.

The claims for dowry harassment will most certainly be dismissed considering they've been married since more than 7+ years.

However, it is not correct to say that a dowry harassment case must be filed within the first seven years of marriage. This is factually incorrect. S498a has no such limitation.

Again, not sure why you are misquoting me or you are unable to understand the case here (specifically as it concerns a defense personnel.... and more so since he is close to retirement. Read: Accrued retirement benefits).

Would be curious to know how long the OP's husband's brother has been married

 

[21Goose]

I disagree with your understanding of reality in cases of Sec. 498A. And, yes, I have studied the Law myself (not just one specific legal specialization) and I have applied it pretty successfully to cases in different countries.



Agreed.



Can you show me where I said that?



Did I say this too?

Assuming there was genuine harassment even after X years of marriage, the wife should have filed the charges of harassment when it happened.... and not waited for a complete breakdown in the marriage to make such purported claims. This again would question the integrity of those claims.



The claims for dowry harassment will most certainly be dismissed considering they've been married since more than 7+ years.



Again, not sure why you are misquoting me or you are unable to understand the case here (specifically as it concerns a defense personnel.... and more so since he is close to retirement. Read: Accrued retirement benefits)

All I'm saying is this:

However, it is not correct to say that a dowry harassment case must be filed within the first seven years of marriage. This is factually incorrect. S498a has no such limitation.

I'm really not interested in an argument. Feel free to ignore me.

 

[Bryanna]

All I'm saying is this:

However, it is not correct to say that a dowry harassment case must be filed within the first seven years of marriage. This is factually incorrect. S498a has no such limitation.

I'm really not interested in an argument. Feel free to ignore me.

I did NOT make any such point. It does not help to misquote someone just to prove a non-existent point.

On a slightly different note, you tend to rehash someone else's advice after they have applied thought/efforts/given advice. Anyways.


End of this discussion with you