Visa and PR card travel entitlement

[DanMac]

I have some questions which I cannot find an answer to so I would be greatful for any guidance;

I'm currently waiting for my federal self employed visa to be issued by London, I believe I have to be considered as Landed in Canada for my PR card to be issued. The problem I have is that I have a business in the UK to wind down which is going to take at least a year to do. I will also need to finish any ongoing work, break down machinery, arrange shipping and sell machinery, clear the work premises, finalise accounts etc and do the opposite in Canada. I want to go out to Canada as soon as I have my visa to register for a business license, apply for permits, find a commercial premises and somewhere to live etc before I shut down in the UK - I can ship stuff out if there's no where to ship it to!

So if I have a visa but waiting for a PR card after "landing" can I still exit and re-enter Canada without any issues?

How long before the visa expires after being issued?

 

[steaky]

1) Yes, but you might need a PRTD to return to Canada if you don't have a PR card by that time.
2) Visa expires after 12 month of medicals OR expiry of passport if it is earlier.

 

[DanMac]

Thanks Steaky,


The visa expires 12 months from the date of medical! so how long approx does it take for the visa to be issued after the medical?

That's a very small window of time considering how much needs to be done, assuming it's going to be a few months before I get the passport request.

 

[rhcohen2014]

if you are VISA EXEPMT (as most people from the uk are), then you DONT need your pr card or a pr travel document to travel to canada. the PR document mentioned abov is only for those requiring visas. as you are presumably visa expempt, then the airline should let you on the plane with just your passport, and immigration will have no problem letting you in with your passport and COPR document you get when you land. most times you don't even need that, becasue as soon as your passport is scanned upon entry, they will see you are a pr, and will validate your status.

Thanks Steaky,


The visa expires 12 months from the date of medical! so how long approx does it take for the visa to be issued after the medical?

That's a very small window of time considering how much needs to be done, assuming it's going to be a few months before I get the passport request.

how long it takes for the visa to be issued is dependant on the type of visa you applied for. you will want to look at the business immigration thread on the main page of this forum to get more information. all visa offices take different amount of times to issue visas. and each type of visa has their own timeline. you will probably have better luck with complete information for the type of visa you are applying for there.

if the medical is close to expiring when the visa is issued 2 things can happen:
1) cic will extend the medicals to help the applicant land
2) cic will request a re-medical to be done in order to issue the visa.

no one on here can tell you for sure what will happen with your own application, as it is dependant on the visa office and officer processing your application.

 

[Rob_TO]

if the medical is close to expiring when the visa is issued 2 things can happen:
1) cic will extend the medicals to help the applicant land
2) cic will request a re-medical to be done in order to issue the visa.

Actually a 3rd option is sometimes seen as well:
3) CIC will issue your COPR with only a few weeks time given to travel to Canada to "land" as a PR before it expires.

Also I would strongly advise to be careful what you say to the immigration officer doing your landing. If you tell them you will be returning immediately back home for 1+ years to finish work, the officer could technically cancel your PR on the spot and tell you to re-apply when you're actually ready to move to Canada. This recently happened to another poster. So make sure you have a family/friends address in Canada you can give to send the PR card to, and don't mention your plans to delay settlement in Canada.

 

[DanMac]

rhcohen2014, that has confused me even more - surely it's a PR visa I am now waiting for in order to 'Land'? but I am aware I do not need a visa to travel to Canada as a visitor.

 

[Rob_TO]

rhcohen2014, that has confused me even more - surely it's a PR visa I am now waiting for in order to 'Land'? but I am aware I do not need a visa to travel to Canada as a visitor.

No you are just waiting for your COPR (Confirmation of PR) documentation. It is NOT a visa. Visas are only required for applicant's who are not visa-exempt.

 

[DanMac]

OK - thanks for confirming that, I was under the impression I was waiting for a PR visa from what I have read on the CIC website - confusing to say the least!
I assume the COPR wall also have an expiry date?
Should I expect CIC to request my passport or will they just send/issue the COPR?

I appreciate these are basic questions, but the answers are not easy to find - all I seem to do is to read through page after page of information that has no relevance to my application.

 

[david1697]

I believe you will receive your COPR along with your VISA stamped inside your passport. (if you are VISA EXEMPT, google it as you won't get a visa, but you will still have only one year from the date of medicals to land in Canada).

As far as I can remember, VISA is valid within 1 year from the date you took your medicals.

You MUST land in Canada before your VISA expires.

You CAN exit Canada immediately after landing.

However, if you return to Canada by Air you will need to be from Visa Exempt category (or else you will not be allowed into flight).

If you are not from Visa Exempt category, you will need a Return Travel Document (to be applied via Canadian Consulate in your place of residence at the time you apply for it).

You can use COPR and your National passport only to return to Canada IF you are coming back via ground POE (from US).
COPR is NOT a proof of Per Res status, so expect to be referred to Secondary Inspection at the Canadian border, unless you have a VISA EXEMPT passport/status.

Alternatively, you can wait for your Perm Resident Card to arrive to your residence/address in Canada and forwarded to you before you return to Canada.

 

[david1697]

Actually a 3rd option is sometimes seen as well:
3) CIC will issue your COPR with only a few weeks time given to travel to Canada to "land" as a PR before it expires.

Also I would strongly advise to be careful what you say to the immigration officer doing your landing. If you tell them you will be returning immediately back home for 1+ years to finish work, the officer could technically cancel your PR on the spot and tell you to re-apply when you're actually ready to move to Canada. This recently happened to another poster. So make sure you have a family/friends address in Canada you can give to send the PR card to, and don't mention your plans to delay settlement in Canada.

Rob_TO,

With all due respect to you , and I don't mean to sound offensive at all, but I believe it's a bad idea to advise someone to mislead CIC at the time of the landing.
This would put one in a position where it would be possible to charge an immigrant at anytime in future with intentionally lying to border officers, and thAt could very well lead to loss of the Permanent Resident status and make one subject to ban from entry for fixed number of years.

CIC had no authority to cancel the visa of anyone for landing and leaving Canada. They can report someone who left Canada for 3 years or more and were unable to meet RO upon return, but they can't cancel a visa just because someone wants to temporarily leave after landing.

Whoever had their visa cancelled could take it to Canadian courts and CIC would be ordered to reverse their decision, if the ONLY reason for cancelling Visa was that person wanted to land and leave before permanently moving to Canada.

The referenced poster may have misstated the reason why his or her visa was cancelled. It's more likely that they were inadmissible upon inspection at the border and lost their visa due to statutory inadmissibility.

In any event. the OP should state things to CIC truthfully or not state anything at all, than knowingly and intentionally lying to federal government authorities.

 

[DanMac]

Thanks for the confirmation of that David1697 - that's very helpul.

 

[Rob_TO]

OK - thanks for confirming that, I was under the impression I was waiting for a PR visa from what I have read on the CIC website - confusing to say the least!
I assume the COPR wall also have an expiry date?
Should I expect CIC to request my passport or will they just send/issue the COPR?

I appreciate these are basic questions, but the answers are not easy to find - all I seem to do is to read through page after page of information that has no relevance to my application.

Since you are visa-exempt, you do NOT need to send your physical passport to your visa office. At most they should just request you send a copy of your passport, in which case you would photocopy all the pages and send that.

Your COPR does have an expiry date, which should match approx 1 year from when you did your medical exam. You must do your initial landing in Canada before the expiry date.

 

[Rob_TO]

Rob_TO,

With all due respect to you , and I don't mean to sound offensive at all, but I believe it's a bad idea to advise someone to mislead CIC at the time of the landing.
This would put one in a position where it would be possible to charge an immigrant at anytime in future with intentionally lying to border officers, and thAt could very well lead to loss of the Permanent Resident status and make one subject to ban from entry for fixed number of years.

CIC had no authority to cancel the visa of anyone for landing and leaving Canada. They can report someone who left Canada for 3 years or more and were unable to meet RO upon return, but they can't cancel a visa just because someone wants to temporarily leave after landing.

Whoever had their visa cancelled could take it to Canadian courts and CIC would be ordered to reverse their decision, if the ONLY reason for cancelling Visa was that person wanted to land and leave before permanently moving to Canada.

The referenced poster may have misstated the reason why his or her visa was cancelled. It's more likely that they were inadmissible upon inspection at the border and lost their visa due to statutory inadmissibility.

In any event. the OP should state things to CIC truthfully or not state anything at all, than knowingly and intentionally lying to federal government authorities.

I think you are wrong. CIC/CBSA can cancel your COPR anytime up until you actually complete the landing process. There are various reasons that CIC/CBSA could do this.

One of the questions they ask you at landing is if anything in your situation has changed since doing the application. Of course one of the main criteria of getting PR for someone not currently in Canada, is showing intent they will move and settle in Canada immediately after getting PR status. We have seen many cases here of people's PRs being rejected for not showing sufficient proof they will settle, or telling their visa office they intend to settle at a much later date.

Since intent to settle is a criteria to get PR, the CBSA officer can definitely deny your PR landing if they feel you are no longer meeting that criteria. Now for a CBSA officer to do this is probably rare, but as I said we actually saw 1 case of exactly this happening a short time ago. And that is indeed the reason it happened, since he was denied after telling officer his plans to go back home for 1+ year for school/work.

And make no mistake, if the OP had mentioned in his PR app he would not be settling in Canada for full 1 year after getting approval, his PR app would have been rejected

You are not misleading or lying to CBSA at all. By all means say you'll be going home to wrap up a few things if they ask you specifically, but just don't say it will be for 1 full year or longer. They won't press the issue and probably won't even ask in the first place. But I know some people get nervous around CBSA officers and like to get chatty, offering up info they don't really need to. There is ZERO chance this will be used against you in any way in the future, that is just being paranoid.

 

[david1697]

I think you are wrong. CIC/CBSA can cancel your COPR anytime up until you actually complete the landing process. There are various reasons that CIC/CBSA could do this.

One of the questions they ask you at landing is if anything in your situation has changed since doing the application. Of course one of the main criteria of getting PR for someone not currently in Canada, is showing intent they will move and settle in Canada immediately after getting PR status. We have seen many cases here of people's PRs being rejected for not showing sufficient proof they will settle, or telling their visa office they intend to settle at a much later date.

Since intent to settle is a criteria to get PR, the CBSA officer can definitely deny your PR landing if they feel you are no longer meeting that criteria. Now for a CBSA officer to do this is probably rare, but as I said we actually saw 1 case of exactly this happening a short time ago. And that is indeed the reason it happened, since he was denied after telling officer his plans to go back home for 1+ year for school/work.

And make no mistake, if the OP had mentioned in his PR app he would not be settling in Canada for full 1 year after getting approval, his PR app would have been rejected

You are not misleading or lying to CBSA at all. By all means say you'll be going home to wrap up a few things if they ask you specifically, but just don't say it will be for 1 full year or longer. They won't press the issue and probably won't even ask in the first place. But I know some people get nervous around CBSA officers and like to get chatty, offering up info they don't really need to. There is ZERO chance this will be used against you in any way in the future, that is just being paranoid.

Yesterday, I have read a case posted on a website of Canadian Immigration Lawyer. It described how CIC refused to give a renewed PR card to someone who came to pick it up per CIC instructions received in mail.
The officer decided to examine applicant at the time of Card pick up (which occurred nearly a year after original application to renew card was submitted) , and determined that at the time of the pick up of the card the immigrant didn't meet the 2 out of 5 year RO requirement in Canada.
If applicant didn't hire an attorney, he may have lost his PR status. But he hired a lawfirm, lawfirm took case to the Federal Court and the High Court had ordered CIC to mail the man his Perm Res Card (and not ask him to come and pick it up: at the time the case was decided the immigrant was already overseas). High court also ordered CIC to pay $5000 to compensate immigrant for unnecessary burden of hiring a counsel and litigate the case that had no merits to begin with.

So, could CIC officer at the border make a mistake and overstep their authority? As rare as it is, those things can and do happen. I won't deny it.
But I am not sure if CIC at the border had authority to deny landing because an immigrant said he would leave Canada and return a year later, when ready.
It is not up to border officer to rule on the length of time immigrant stays outside of Canada, the lawmaking body decides it. And it is clearly stated in regulations that immigrant can stay up to 3 years outside of Canada after landing, without jeopardizing their status.
Border officer can't make a law, he/she can only enforce what is in the books.

I am not sure if there is a law in the books that says immigrant can't have intention to stay 1 year outside of Canada immediately after landing. Such being the case, what would be the lawful basis to deny landing to someone who wanted to go back and wrap up things before returning to Canada?
And if there is no basis in law, then what is the worst that can happen? A court case, with High Court ordering CIC to correct the error.

However, if immigrant lies (and it will go on record, make no mistake about it), then there are factual grounds to charge with intentional misrepresentation and it's a crime. I would rather be paranoid than do something that would give grounds to charge me with intentional violation of law and impose a ban on my entry for fixed number of years in future.

 

[Rob_TO]

Yesterday, I have read a case posted on a website of Canadian Immigration Lawyer. It described how CIC refused to give a renewed PR card to someone who came to pick it up per CIC instructions received in mail.
The officer decided to examine applicant at the time of Card pick up (which occurred nearly a year after original application to renew card was submitted) , and determined that at the time of the pick up of the card the immigrant didn't meet the 2 out of 5 year RO requirement in Canada.
If applicant didn't hire an attorney, he may have lost his PR status. But he hired a lawfirm, lawfirm took case to the Federal Court and the High Court had ordered CIC to mail the man his Perm Res Card (and not ask him to come and pick it up: at the time the case was decided the immigrant was already overseas). High court also ordered CIC to pay $5000 to compensate immigrant for unnecessary burden of hiring a counsel and litigate the case that had no merits to begin with.

That has absolutely nothing to do with this case, since that person already has PR status. Completely different.

And it is clearly stated in regulations that immigrant can stay up to 3 years outside of Canada after landing, without jeopardizing their status.
Border officer can't make a law, he/she can only enforce what is in the books.
I am not sure if there is a law in the books that says immigrant can't have intention to stay 1 year outside of Canada immediately after landing.

Yes there most definitely is a law and it's clearly stated in all CIC manuals and books. Once you have PR you can do whatever you want. But until you have actually landed as a PR, you are still just an applicant even if you have COPR in hand. Sure there is a 3 year rule after getting PR, but that has nothing to do with intent BEFORE getting your PR. If anybody indicates in their PR applications they do not intend to actually settle in Canada for 1, 2 or 3 years after getting PR approval, THEY WILL BE REJECTED FOR PR. This is common knowledge and follows CIC rules.

Such being the case, what would be the lawful basis to deny landing to someone who wanted to go back and wrap up things before returning to Canada?

As mentioned, the lawful basis is intent to move/settle in Canada after being approved for PR status. Read the CIC OP manuals to learn more about intent to move to Canada. If you don't show intent to move, then you can and will be rejected for PR.

The key term is duration spent "wrapping up things" in home country. A few weeks or perhaps months could be acceptable. But a year or longer and you are pushing it. If one decides to explain all this to a CBSA officer, then you are putting this decision into the hands of the CBSA officer if they think you no longer meet the intent to settle criteria, and they could rip up your COPR and tell you to apply again later when you are ready to move.

After you get PR you are fine and can then do whatever you want. But don't think having COPR is same as having PR, they are very different things. You have zero rights as a PR until you have actually completed your landing and have your PR status.

And if there is no basis in law, then what is the worst that can happen? A court case, with High Court ordering CIC to correct the error.

Just by having to go through the court process and hire a lawyer, you have already lost. Case could be tied up for years, cost thousands, with no guarantee of winning. You want to avoid this in all cases.

However, if immigrant lies (and it will go on record, make no mistake about it), then there are factual grounds to charge with intentional misrepresentation and it's a crime. I would rather be paranoid than do something that would give grounds to charge me with intentional violation of law and impose a ban on my entry for fixed number of years in future.

Where did anyone mention to lie??

A CBSA officer will not be recording everything you say at a PR landing, unless some situation happens. Also even if you say to a CBSA officer that you are returning to home country for a few weeks or months to wrap things up, but actually end up staying for years, that is not lying. Situations can and do change on the fly so there is zero situation in which you would get in trouble for this. Absolutely none. Else CBSA would be going after every single PR who moved outside Canada immediately after getting PR card. But they don't go after anybody unless the RO comes into play.