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Trying to Enter Canada is a Gamble

resilientflora

resilientflora

Star Member
Jun 30, 2020
128
33
tapperb said:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/22/canada-united-states-student-visa-400107

This article confirms what we've all known. There's no standardized policy. What may work for one person might not for someone else and vice versa.
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Thank you for sharing this! Definitely confirms that it’s all confusing - but there’s hope yet! I spoke with Chris (the attorney mentioned at the beginning of this article) on Friday and he made it seem like the most important thing to present at a POE is a letter stating non-discretionary mandatory in-person attendance from your school / program. Yes, always up to the officer, but stronger case with that in hand. I’m going to be trying this myself in the next week since class start time is quickly approaching. Wish me luck and hope you get there when you need to!
 
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Matt173

Hero Member
Oct 13, 2019
279
108
... Because there are no two identical cases. Almost every case is unique. How is a border agent to make a decision in the absence of such letter? He or she will look at all other supporting documents, but if two individuals have identical supporting documents (which aside classmates of the same program at the same school almost nobody else has) then in the end it comes down to impressions of credibility and that can result in someone being let in while the other got rejected despite similar supporting documents. That is exactly the instructions given to CBSA. Does every single last agent follow the guidelines to the dot? Most likely not, but the large majority probably do.



tapperb said:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/22/canada-united-states-student-visa-400107

This article confirms what we've all known. There's no standardized policy. What may work for one person might not for someone else and vice versa.
Click to expand...
 
Impatient Dankaroo

Impatient Dankaroo

VIP Member
Jan 10, 2020
4,379
2,663
Matt173 said:
... Because there are no two identical cases. Almost every case is unique. How is a border agent to make a decision in the absence of such letter? He or she will look at all other supporting documents, but if two individuals have identical supporting documents (which aside classmates of the same program at the same school almost nobody else has) then in the end it comes down to impressions of credibility and that can result in someone being let in while the other got rejected despite similar supporting documents. That is exactly the instructions given to CBSA. Does every single last agent follow the guidelines to the dot? Most likely not, but the large majority probably do.
Click to expand...
How can you say for certain what their procedure is? Were you there when they gave out instructions to CBSA agents?
 
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Matt173

Hero Member
Oct 13, 2019
279
108
How do you know there is no standardized policy applied according to the guidelines, given? Were you there? Standardized does not mean that everyone is treated equally. Standard means that a protocol is followed according to guidelines. Each individual student case is different and as neither you nor I nor anyone knows exactly two different cases and their commonalities and differences, there is simply not sufficient information available to make a broad sweeping statement such as "no standard is followed".

It would be utter nonsense to say that student A's presence from University B was deemed essential but student B's presence from university C was not deemed essential. Hence the system must be non-standard. Have you seen both letters of support? Seen each and every single class those students registered for? Know whether any of them also conducts research? Whether they have declared goods to follow that require the physical presence of the shipper of the personal effects, whether they start classes right away or not after their quarantine. Whether they already own property or not at the place they study. All those factors impact the decision making. Does anyone know all those details of two individual cases to make a meaningful comparison. No, none of us does. Hence any claim or even vague suggestion that CBSA acts in a inconsistent manner is nonsense.

If all you wanted to say is that no two cases are the same, then congratulations. You figured it out. ;-)

tapperb said:
How can you say for certain what their procedure is? Were you there when they gave out instructions to CBSA agents?
Click to expand...
 
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Dafaqisgoingon

Star Member
Jun 12, 2020
148
94
Matt173 said:
... Because there are no two identical cases. Almost every case is unique. How is a border agent to make a decision in the absence of such letter? He or she will look at all other supporting documents, but if two individuals have identical supporting documents (which aside classmates of the same program at the same school almost nobody else has) then in the end it comes down to impressions of credibility and that can result in someone being let in while the other got rejected despite similar supporting documents. That is exactly the instructions given to CBSA. Does every single last agent follow the guidelines to the dot? Most likely not, but the large majority probably do.
Click to expand...
I feel you are getting offended personally for some reason. 3 friends of mine are enrolled in the same program, 1 was allowed to enter and 2 were sent back from Toronto to India and they were on the same flight as well. Please go ahead and justify it to someone else, i know my own friends suffered the fate of CBSA. There is definitely some communication gap as they all had identical documents, exactly the same.

So please don't assume only you have the right information.
 
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Matt173

Hero Member
Oct 13, 2019
279
108
All three students took the exact 100% matching classes, same course numbers, instruction times, modes of delivery, same advisor, same department, same letter of support by the university? They communicated in the exact same way that they will start their studies right after the quarantine? They all wrote an identical quarantine plan that matched word by word?

I find this very hard to believe. Because if not then you have no way of knowing the exact reason why 1 was let in and the other 2 were rejected.

P.S. I am not personally offended by anything. I ask questions, that is all. And I feel the frustrations of some of us is causing some people in this forum to get carried away and making all sorts of assumptions and conjectures that are simply not supported by facts.

Dafaqisgoingon said:
I feel you are getting offended personally for some reason. 3 friends of mine are enrolled in the same program, 1 was allowed to enter and 2 were sent back from Toronto to India and they were on the same flight as well. Please go ahead and justify it to someone else, i know my own friends suffered the fate of CBSA. There is definitely some communication gap as they all had identical documents, exactly the same.

So please don't assume only you have the right information.
Click to expand...
 
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Dafaqisgoingon

Star Member
Jun 12, 2020
148
94
Matt173 said:
All three students took the exact 100% matching classes, same course numbers, instruction times, modes of delivery, same advisor, same department, same letter of support by the university? I find this very hard to believe. Because if not then you have no way of knowing the exact reason why 1 was let in and the other 2 were rejected.
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Yes exactly the same, they started online classes in May at Conestoga College. You keep living in your dreamland, but this is exactly the issue at the moment. Why do you think in the article linked above, University of Windsor said they had to revise their travel Support letter 4 times? Pretty sure they are aware about the problem on the ground.
If you or your friends haven't been through the situation please don't undermine others who are seriously stressed as a result of this. Colleges are cancelling intakes as a result of this.

Its a total mess.
 
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Dafaqisgoingon

Star Member
Jun 12, 2020
148
94
Islander216 said:
Isn't this fall semester online only?

Why would you need to enter then?

I'm just asking.
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Are you sure that all Colleges and all programs are online? What an ignorant thing to say. Conestoga College specifically mentioned Physical presence is required in Canada and they will offer some programs even from Business to only those present in Canada
 
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Mojito5

Full Member
Dec 19, 2019
22
26
Islander216 said:
Isn't this fall semester online only?

Why would you need to enter then?

I'm just asking.
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In my case, my program is 80% online with 2 courses that entail heavy lab works.

I couldn’t fly out due to the local restrictions from my home country (and with the airline cancelling my flight twice), so I’ll start remotely. But I’ll still need to fly out when I can to make up for the classes I’ve missed. I’ve coordinated with my University and they were considerate enough to work with my situation.

It’s really not ideal - but it is what it is. So I’ll just divert my energies to make the necessary adjustments.
 
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Bs65

VIP Member
Mar 22, 2016
13,190
2,419
Dafaqisgoingon said:
Are you sure that all Colleges and all programs are online? What an ignorant thing to say. Conestoga College specifically mentioned Physical presence is required in Canada and they will offer some programs even from Business to only those present in Canada
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For those unsure about Conestoga college specifically and the mix of on campus/online

https://www.conestogac.on.ca/academic-delivery-plan/

Interestingly unless I am misreading the business programs are all planned remote for fall 2020 at least with winter 2021 to be announced
 
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