Told to resign - Now sent Procedural Fairness Letter

[L.A.A.19]

Hi,

I've just found this site as I'm trying to understand the procedural fairness letter.

I'm the sponsor and my husband is the applicant. We applied back in February/March last year from outside Canada.

I thought the process has been typical: retrieved the necessary documents, medical, police clearance etc. Everything seemed ok.

December 2018 we received communication from the VO, that I, the sponsor, need to show proof of my resignation from my job, proof of Canadian job search and proof of Rental Agreement for when we move. Good sign? We thought so. I provided everything they asked for.

Fastforward to a couple days ago, we received a Procedural Fairness Letter asking my husband to provide more documents, because the officer isn't satisfied with documents already presented.

This last message feels like it is coming from a different officer.

My question is, are they suppose to tell me to resign from my job before they confirm all documents? Is this typical? Has anyone experienced or heard of such an experience and the outcome of such?

They gave us a month to provide more documentation and of course I would have stopped working by then. What am I suppose to do?

My husband will now go back to his home country to see if he can find any more documents and/or see a lawyer so an affidavit can be written.

Does anyone know what options we have? Is there anyone we can contact? Is there any way to contact the visa officer other than when submitting the documents through the mail? (This is how this specific message directed us to respond and submit.)

I would appreciate any guidance. Thanks.

 

[k.h.p.]

They didn't tell you to resign, nor did they ask you to submit a proof of resignation. They ask you to provide documents that proved an intention to move back to Canada, "such as" a resignation, job search evidence, etc. Much like how you should never buy airline tickets until you have the visa in place, you should never resign before you have the visa secured.

What I would recommend to people in your situation is to have a conversation with your employer - "we are applying for a visa, and if it is granted, I will be leaving and I will provide you with notice." Then document the conversation.

The procedural fairness letter is because the case officer believes your husband is misrepresenting something. It's quite serious. Deal with that. If you can rescind your resignation with an understanding that if a visa is issued you will be leaving, look into that.

 

[L.A.A.19]

Okay. So to confirm, this is the typical process? For an outland application, immigration usually asks the sponsor to prove resignation, job search, where you will live/rental info etc... before the applicants documents are finished being checked?

And I agree... Don't buy a ticket before the visa. I can speak with my employer now, I just wouldn't have assumed a screenshot as good enough proof for immigration.

Does anyone know if there is any way possible to clarify any requests made by the VO with them personally at any point before sending the documents they requested? It would be very helpful to get clarification so as to not end up in another unwelcomed situation.

Thanks.

 

[k.h.p.]

Okay. So to confirm, this is the typical process? For an outland application, immigration usually asks the sponsor to prove resignation, job search, where you will live/rental info etc... before the applicants documents are finished being checked?

And I agree... Don't buy a ticket before the visa. I can speak with my employer now, I just wouldn't have assumed a screenshot as good enough proof for immigration.

Does anyone know if there is any way possible to clarify any requests made by the VO with them personally at any point before sending the documents they requested? It would be very helpful to get clarification so as to not end up in another unwelcomed situation.

Thanks.

Like I said above, they do not ask you to prove resignation.

They ask a Canadian who is resident outside of Canada to provide documentation of an intent to return to Canada. They do not want to go about issuing PR visas to spouses who have no intention of residing in Canada. That documentation is part of the application process - it is itself a document that must be checked as part of the application process.

Most people get through this by providing proof of apartment search, job search, documenting plans to sell homes/leave jobs. Most people do not sell their home when they apply for PR because it's at least at 12 month process.

 

[k.h.p.]

Documenting the intention to return to Canada is one of the hardest things of a citizen-not-in-Canada outland application. People provide moving quotes, letters from employers attesting to notification of visa application and intent to leave when visa granted, etc. But you can search this forum and find quite a few posts about proof of intent.

 

[k.h.p.]

For an outland application, immigration usually asks the sponsor to prove resignation, job search, where you will live/rental info etc... before the applicants documents are finished being checked?

Since I just saw this part of the question and thought about it a little more:

There are two approval processes for a sponsorship application. One, the sponsor must be approved to be a sponsor. When the sponsor is in Canada, this is an easy process - are they convicted of anything close to domestic violence? Have they provided the support undertaking? Do they seem to be able to support themselves? Does the relationship appear to be legitimate? Then you're generally good. If you are a sponsor outside of Canada, they also need to be able to ascertain if you're actually planning on moving to Canada.

This assessment of the sponsor is occurring while the principal applicant's documents are being assessed. Typically, the sponsor evaluation is much faster than the principal applicant's evaluation.

 

[zardoz]

Just to add, IRCC have become MUCH more aggressive in the requirements for proof of intent to return to Canada permanently. This is because some people were applying for PR status as a convenient "visitor visa" instead of what it is designed for. They never had any intention to actually move to Canada. Thus, it's become much more important to be able to really prove the intention, or be refused.

 

[cantthinkofaname]

We also received this letter.

We are already in Canada though we did apply Outland. My wife, the PA is here on a visitors visa. We have a son that is a Canadian citizen.

We changed our address on ECAS months ago as well. I did send in what I thought was enough proof of intent to live here, but I suppose the officer disagreed.

We were given the option to mail documents to Mississauga, or to send them via the case specific inquiry web page.

I sent the following:

- A letter from my accountant to the CRA stating that I am back in Canada as of X date.
- A residential lease on which I am listed as a tenant.
- A letter explaining that we are already here and that we want to raise our son here.
- A letter of corroboration / support from a family member.
- My phone bill.
- Car insurance policy.
- My newly issued health card.
- My son’s newly issued health card.
- My son’s citizenship certificate.
- My gym membership.
- An upcoming appointment notification from my son’s doctor.
- 3 recent bank statements.
- 2 email responses from jobs I applied for.

I think that’s everything. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be if I were still outside of Canada as I had originally planned to be while the application is processed.

It makes me wonder why it’s even an option to apply out of country in the first place.

I hope the above is enough to convince the officer that we are here and planning to stay.

I really don’t know what else I could send in.

Good luck to all in the same boat.

 

[k.h.p.]

We also received this letter.

(snip)

I think that’s everything. I can’t imagine how difficult it would be if I were still outside of Canada as I had originally planned to be while the application is processed.

It makes me wonder why it’s even an option to apply out of country in the first place.

I hope the above is enough to convince the officer that we are here and planning to stay.

I really don’t know what else I could send in.

Good luck to all in the same boat.

This is a great story and a whole bunch of info related to how to prove you're in Canada but it doesn't address the OP's post and doesn't add much to the question of "was I required to resign to be able to apply for sponsorship."

As to your question of why applications outside of Canada are even allowed in the first place - imagine that you're living outside of Canada, for work. You meet someone, and get married. They are from a non-visa exempt country, and cannot enter Canada without a visa, and they now cannot easily get a TRV since they're married. You both want to move to Canada, but now your only really feasible option is to apply outland for sponsorship.

Were we to prohibit sponsorship applications where the sponsor was living outside Canada, in that case you'd be required to move back to Canada, leaving your spouse and expat life behind, just to apply to sponsor your spouse. And then be separated for 12+ months.

The ability for citizens to apply for sponsoring a spouse while outside Canada is something that's sensible. You just have to prove that you intend to move back, to avoid the PR from becoming a "really long TRV."

 

[cantthinkofaname]

Well that’s funny.

I was working outside Canada, and I did meet someone and get married. We even had a child together.

We are also a hair away from getting our application refused because somebody doesn’t think we intend to live in Canada.

Even with the totally unexpected action of me having to return to Canada about a month after we sent our application in.

I listed all the things I sent, which I don’t even know will be enough, to give ideas to other people.

In my original application, sent when I had no idea I’d soon be in Canada, I had a letter included that promised a place to live indefinitely and all support required to get us on our feet.

In the additional documents request I sent a bank statement, medical insurance I had bought for my wife and son here in Canada, proof that I had enrolled my son and myself into OHIP, and apparently that wasn’t good enough.

It may be that the OP’s best course is to come ahead to Canada and get established here and pray that whoever is deciding his future had enough coffee before work that day.

 

[k.h.p.]

Well that’s funny.

I was working outside Canada, and I did meet someone and get married. We even had a child together.

We are also a hair away from getting our application refused because somebody doesn’t think we intend to live in Canada.

Even with the totally unexpected action of me having to return to Canada about a month after we sent our application in.

I listed all the things I sent, which I don’t even know will be enough, to give ideas to other people.

In my original application, sent when I had no idea I’d soon be in Canada, I had a letter included that promised a place to live indefinitely and all support required to get us on our feet.

In the additional documents request I sent a bank statement, medical insurance I had bought for my wife and son here in Canada, proof that I had enrolled my son and myself into OHIP, and apparently that wasn’t good enough.

It may be that the OP’s best course is to come ahead to Canada and get established here and pray that whoever is deciding his future had enough coffee before work that day.

I'm glad it worked for you. You've listed a bunch of things that indicate a resumed presence in Canada, which is excellent, but of no use to the OP who has not resumed presence in Canada.

I take it that the gist of your message is "it's easier to just be in Canada," but sometimes it isn't - particularly if the partner is unable to join the sponsor in Canada due to visa restrictions. You asked why we even allow sponsor-out-of-Canada applications, and I'm trying to answer that (especially from my viewpoint: my fiancee is Russian, living in China, next to impossible to get a TRV - her moving to Canada with me to wait out an application isn't easy to do, which is why the sponsor-out-of-Canada option exists).

In your original document submission, you said you submitted:

• A letter promising to CIC you'd guarantee your partner a place to live and support to get life going.

And that's apparently it? No wonder CIC decided that wasn't enough proof. That's something you're already required to undertake, legally, to do, and isn't indicative of a proof of an intention to reside in Canada. In this context, other people have sent:

• Quotes from moving companies about plans to move belongings
• Documented arrangements with employers being ready to leave jobs
• Plans to sell houses, including contracts with realtors\
• Plans to liquidate pension funds or transfer to Canadian providers
• Affidavits from family members who would provide housing
• Contracts with realtors conducting apartment searches in Canada
• Letters from recruiters documenting job searches in Canada
• Pending offers of employment

Following an additional documents request, you apparently submitted:

• Enrollment in OHIP for your son
• A bank statement

I get that you moved back unexpectedly, and you then needed to prove resumed residence in Canada, but your initial documentation wasn't sufficient to prove an intent to move back to Canada if all it was was a promise.

 

[rmintl]

Okay. So to confirm, this is the typical process? For an outland application, immigration usually asks the sponsor to prove resignation, job search, where you will live/rental info etc... before the applicants documents are finished being checked?

And I agree... Don't buy a ticket before the visa. I can speak with my employer now, I just wouldn't have assumed a screenshot as good enough proof for immigration.

Does anyone know if there is any way possible to clarify any requests made by the VO with them personally at any point before sending the documents they requested? It would be very helpful to get clarification so as to not end up in another unwelcomed situation.

Thanks.

I'm not sure if this is what you are asking--- but have you tried the IRCC Webform?-- for case specific enquiry --https://secure.cic.gc.ca/enquiries-renseignements/canada-case-cas-eng.aspx

 

[cantthinkofaname]

The letter wasn’t from me, it was from a family member promising housing and support indefinitely. It wasn’t notarized or anything.

After the sponsor approval came I wasn’t expecting everything to be on the verge of collapse because of me this far into the process.

I was expecting a PPR, not this.

Anyway I recognize it’s not always possible for both parties to wait it out in Canada. My wife is from the Philippines. We applied for a Visitors Visa on a whim since we had all the documents required anyway, and it was only $100. Even though I’d heard and read rejection story after rejection story about spouses being denied, we took a chance, and thankfully it was approved.

I’m frustrated by this as it seems that we keep hitting roadblocks when all we want to do is get settled and start our life here. Yes it’s great that she’s here, but she can’t work or really do anything until her PR is issued.

Sometimes I feel like taking her across to New York (she has a B1) and get her to walk across with all the Haitians.

You missed a couple of items.

I sent my enrolment in OHIP along with my son’s and the medical insurance that I had bought for him and my wife.

You can’t get OHIP without living here. It takes 3 months for coverage to activate. I’ve been here 5 months and my wife and son have been here 4 months. We changed our address on our application months ago.

I don’t see how there can be any doubt that we intend to live in Canada when we are already living in Canada.

 

[k.h.p.]

I get that you can't get OHIP without living here, but that's proof of residence in Canada, not proof of intention to return to Canada. You sent that once you tried to convince CIC that you were now resident in Canada. You didn't send it as part of your initial application, and it wouldn't have made a lot of sense sending it as part of your initial application because you wouldn't have returned to Canada by then.

Your problem isn't proving that you intend to return to Canada, it's convincing CIC that you have returned and that you want them to continue processing your sponsorship application. The OP's question was "do I need to quit my job as proof of my intention to return to Canada?" OP was asking about oranges, you're answering about pomelos.

Part of what's sad in your case is that the reason why your wife was likely approved for a TRV - proof of strong ties to home country - is also what challenged you in providing proof that you intended to return to Canada because there was no indication of severing those ties when you applied as you had been planning on applying from outside Canada.

 

[k.h.p.]

If you had returned to Canada first and then submitted your outland sponsorship application indicating that you (sponsor) still lived outside Canada, you sent in an incorrect application. You should have applied inland indicating the sponsor lived in Canada.

I'm reading your post to indicate you applied outland while you were living outland, an emergency arose and you had to return to Canada, you brought your wife and child (thank goodness for the TRV) and now you want them to consider the fact that you have returned to Canada.

That's been done before and it's not impossible but all the cases I've read detailed the same challenge you have - getting it through CIC's head that you don't intend to return to Canada, you already have.