Sponsorship Logistics: Currently in UK, Spouse has Job Offer in Canada

[English Rose]

Hi all,

I'm looking for feedback on logistics regarding a spousal PR application through the London office.

Background
-- We currently reside in the UK: myself (UK citizen), husband (dual UK/Canadian citizen, born in Canada), and our two children (eldest born in Canada, youngest born in US). My husband and eldest son have Canadian passports; our youngest son is awaiting his Canadian Citizenship Certificate. My spouse and I have been common-law since early 2007 and married since July 2009.
-- My spouse has been offered a job in Canada, due to start in September 2013. It is an 8-month contract (as is so often the case in his profession) but it is expected to be renewed year-on-year.
-- I will need to apply for a police check from the USA as well as the UK, which will take approx. 2 months, possibly longer. This means I can't submit my PR application until mid-September, so my husband will already be in Canada.
-- Finally, we have moved around a fair amount, which may or may not affect our case. We met in Canada, and have lived together since August 2006. We have been common-law since April 2007 (through the birth of our son) and married since July 2009. We then moved to the US, where I was studying/he was working, and lived there from August 2009. I and my children have been in the UK since August 2012, due to work; my husband was in the US until December 2012, due to his work. We have been living together in the UK since December 2012. We work in academia, where it is common for people to move countries frequently, but I fear that this movement might work against us.

Here are my questions:
1. Is it better if the application is submitted before my husband leaves for Canada or once he is there? Does it make any difference?
2. I understand that I can travel to Canada with my children before I receive PR, as long as I enter as a temporary visitor and as long as I'm willing to return for an interview, if need be. Is that correct?
3. Will it matter that we've lived in several different countries (Canada, US, UK)?

I want to minimize how much time our family has to spend apart, so I'm also looking into options for me and the boys to be in Canada before receiving PR (i.e. work visa v. visiting temporarily).

Thank you so much for your help!!

 

[Rob_TO]

1 - It doesn't really make any difference. If you apply while in UK, he'll have to show intent to move to Canada, although with a job offer there that should be pretty easy to do. If you apply while in the UK you can get the processing started early so is probably your best bet.
2 - Yes, you can travel as a visitor while an outland application is in progress. It should be pretty easy for a visa-exempt UK citizen to travel to Canada. Just make sure you tell them you're visiting only, and intend to go back to UK after visitor status expires (usually 6 months), or apply for renewal. A return airplane ticket and showing ties to the UK makes this easy.
3 - It shouldn't matter. Just show a police cert from each place lived in for over 6 months. Canada, UK and US are all wealthy safe countries, so I don't think CIC will care. It would be a different story if you lived in lots of poorer countries with more social/political issues.

 

[English Rose]

Thank you for your quick response. I hope that the process goes as smoothly as this!

To perhaps complicate things, I am in possession of a US student visa, which is valid until June 2014, although I am currently living in the UK. Do you (or anyone else) know if multiple visas might be looked at askance?

(I am a graduate student in the US, writing up my dissertation from the UK--and soon, perhaps, from Canada.)

 

[Sweden]

Thank you for your quick response. I hope that the process goes as smoothly as this!

To perhaps complicate things, I am in possession of a US student visa, which is valid until June 2014, although I am currently living in the UK. Do you (or anyone else) know if multiple visas might be looked at askance?

(I am a graduate student in the US, writing up my dissertation from the UK--and soon, perhaps, from Canada.)

I don't think it will make a difference. It would be suspicious if it looked like you were trying to get access to any western country, but in your case, you're from the UK, studying in the US, and moving to Canada with your spouse - it all makes sense.
Sweden

 

[English Rose]

Thanks, Sweden!

 

[frege]

-- I will need to apply for a police check from the USA as well as the UK, which will take approx. 2 months, possibly longer. This means I can't submit my PR application until mid-September, so my husband will already be in Canada.

This actually isn't true. Although CIC writes in their instruction guides that "incomplete" applications will be returned, their internal operational manuals specify the cases in which they can actually return an application. They do this when certain basic conditions haven't been met, and police checks aren't among these. So it's okay to submit police checks later in the process - just include a note that this is your intention.

A webpage written by an immigration lawyer says the following:

"You can submit the application with supporting documentation but without the criminal record checks in order to get into the queue for processing. Criminal record checks can sometimes take months to arrive and there is no reason to delay submitting the application if you just waiting for the criminal record checks to arrive.

If you submit your application without the criminal record checks, it is often a good idea to wait for CIC to request them rather than sending them in separately, otherwise there is a risk of them getting lost at the visa processing office."

I can't link directly to the source here, but you'll find it if you Google "spousor your spouse" (sic). That page has other useful tips for putting together an application.

By the way, the moving around part doesn't matter if you were together. In any case, you've got two kids together, and this creates a very strong presumption that the relationship is genuine. So in your case, even if much of the time had been spent apart, it probably wouldn't matter. I think they'll look at the application for about another two minutes after seeing the kids' birth certificates with both your names on them (as regards genuineness, anyway). Make sure you include these even if they're not required, because they're the absolute best evidence you've got, even if you've already got plenty.

If you're interested in the CIC operational manuals:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/

IP 2 and OP 2 are for outland applications, IP 8 for inland.

 

[English Rose]

This actually isn't true. Although CIC writes in their instruction guides that "incomplete" applications will be returned, their internal operational manuals specify the cases in which they can actually return an application. They do this when certain basic conditions haven't been met, and police checks aren't among these. So it's okay to submit police checks later in the process - just include a note that this is your intention.

If you're interested in the CIC operational manuals:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/

IP 2 and OP 2 are for outland applications, IP 8 for inland.

Thank you so much for linking to the operational manuals--super helpful. OP 2 states that a background check delay can be used "to identify a file that is non-routine and [which] therefore might be processed outside of the six-month service standard" (p.10). This makes me think that while waiting on a background check might slow down the process, so might submitting it late.

Does anyone on this board have experience of submitting a late background check for an Outland family class sponsorship? No worries if not. Thanks!

 

[opmama]

Does anyone on this board have experience of submitting a late background check for an Outland family class sponsorship? No worries if not. Thanks!

We will be doing this. We head back to Canada (end of the week - kids and I are moving, hubs is visiting. I have two kids still awaiting their citizenship certificates as well. I've read having the application submitted can make it easier to cross the border, so we submitted it without police certs or medicals, and a note saying we were aware both were required and would be submitting them.

We're still early in the process, but we have AOR, so they didn't send it back for incompleteness or anything. Hoping for SA in the next few days.

I do expect it could delay processing of stage 2, but if we're all in Canada together, that's not a big deal.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Thank you so much for linking to the operational manuals--super helpful. OP 2 states that a background check delay can be used "to identify a file that is non-routine and [which] therefore might be processed outside of the six-month service standard" (p.10). This makes me think that while waiting on a background check might slow down the process, so might submitting it late.

Does anyone on this board have experience of submitting a late background check for an Outland family class sponsorship? No worries if not. Thanks!

A police certificate is not a background check. The background checks are the part that CIC does themselves, running the name through various law enforcement agencies around the world checking for terrorism etc.

My partner submitted outland through London with only 1 of 4 police certificates. The other 3 were sent in along the way as they arrived. No problems.

 

[English Rose]

We will be doing this. We head back to Canada (end of the week - kids and I are moving, hubs is visiting. I have two kids still awaiting their citizenship certificates as well. I've read having the application submitted can make it easier to cross the border, so we submitted it without police certs or medicals, and a note saying we were aware both were required and would be submitting them.

We're still early in the process, but we have AOR, so they didn't send it back for incompleteness or anything. Hoping for SA in the next few days.

I do expect it could delay processing of stage 2, but if we're all in Canada together, that's not a big deal.

Thank you for your thoughts! It sounds like you've heard that it's good to submit the PR application before entering as a visitor. I should be able to have submitted for PR, but I may not have the AOR back in time. Is it best to have AOR, do you know, before entering as a visitor, or is it just the PR application that helps?

After my husband has signed his contract, I'll send a copy to CIC to ask for rapid processing for my son's Citizenship Cert. Did you undertake a similar process, if you don't mind my asking, or will you just be waiting the regular time? Was it a straightforward process, if you did request rapid processing?

 

[English Rose]

A police certificate is not a background check. The background checks are the part that CIC does themselves, running the name through various law enforcement agencies around the world checking for terrorism etc.

My partner submitted outland through London with only 1 of 4 police certificates. The other 3 were sent in along the way as they arrived. No problems.

Ah yes, of course. Thanks for your input! It looks like it took a year for processing, from your timeline. I'm crossing my fingers for quicker processing, if possible. Do you know if the police certs being submitted later affected the processing speed at all? (Please don't feel obliged to answer; I don't mean to pry.)

 

[opmama]

Thank you for your thoughts! It sounds like you've heard that it's good to submit the PR application before entering as a visitor. I should be able to have submitted for PR, but I may not have the AOR back in time. Is it best to have AOR, do you know, before entering as a visitor, or is it just the PR application that helps?

After my husband has signed his contract, I'll send a copy to CIC to ask for rapid processing for my son's Citizenship Cert. Did you undertake a similar process, if you don't mind my asking, or will you just be waiting the regular time? Was it a straightforward process, if you did request rapid processing?

I think even having a copy of your PR application fees receipt helps - it's just documentation that you really have applied. I don't truly know how much difference it makes, but with kids involved, I'm trying to make our border crossing as painless as possible.

For the citizenship cert, we sent it to the Seattle Consulate in early April, requesting expedited processing. I called a month later, and the guy dug it off his desk and sent it to Canada, said it should take 8-10 weeks for expedited processing. That was 13 weeks ago. I was in Canada a week ago, so able to contact the call center. They said my file showed no signs of a request for expedited processing (which doesn't necessarily mean it didn't get put in the expedited pile), and added one in. I am currently attempting to change our address in the system so that when they're done, they just get mailed to us in Canada, rather than sent back to Seattle. It would be good to have it by late August when school starts. From what I understand, if both parents are at the border and you have the application and the your original birth certificate, the kids won't have any problem entering (there is CBSA guidance in this case of "presumptive Canadians" here http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2009/ob154.asp - they know the processing takes a long time).

 

[English Rose]

From what I understand, if both parents are at the border and you have the application and the your original birth certificate, the kids won't have any problem entering (there is CBSA guidance in this case of "presumptive Canadians" here http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/bulletins/2009/ob154.asp - they know the processing takes a long time).

Thank you so much for the link! Only I will be at the border--the non-Canadian parent--but the CBSA guidance suggests that this should (hopefully) be okay, with enough relevant documentation. I will contact the Canadian High Commission in London in order to get extra guidance. All the very best with your move, and thank you for your help.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Ah yes, of course. Thanks for your input! It looks like it took a year for processing, from your timeline. I'm crossing my fingers for quicker processing, if possible. Do you know if the police certs being submitted later affected the processing speed at all? (Please don't feel obliged to answer; I don't mean to pry.)

It was actually about 8.5 months. It took 2 months to get sponsor approval (fast for that time, average was about 3 months), so that made it a bit longer than most now who get sponsor approval in 1 month or less. Hope as much as you want for quick processing times but plan for at LEAST 7 months.

From the GCMS notes, I know that the late police certs didn't affect the processing time. The fact that CIC lost the NZ police cert authorization form and didn't tell us for awhile delayed it; as soon as they received the NZ cert, it went to Decision Made.

 

[English Rose]

It was actually about 8.5 months. ... Hope as much as you want for quick processing times but plan for at LEAST 7 months.

From the GCMS notes, I know that the late police certs didn't affect the processing time.

Thanks for your reply. Absolutely: I'm anticipating 9 months, at least, but I obviously want to make sure I don't slow things down. Great to hear about your experience with the police certs. Thank you so much!