Sponsor with criminal record/RCMP CLearance

[redwine]

RCMP clearance is Royal Canadian Mounted Police clearance. Here is the link for that:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/fing-empr2-eng.htm

Your partner made his application in August 2011 and the conviction date is April 2006. In this matter 5 years already past and he should be eligable for sponsorship. If CIC counts this 5 years period after his probation (October 2006) then there might be a problem. I checked the regulations and they are not very clear about this 5 years rule. It doesn't say that after probation. It says since completion of the sentence

Here is the rule:

Requirements for sponsor

133. (1) A sponsorship application shall only be approved by an officer if, on the day on which the application was filed and from that day until the day a decision is made with respect to the application, there is evidence that the sponsor

(a) is a sponsor as described in section 130;

(b) intends to fulfil the obligations in the sponsorship undertaking;

(c) is not subject to a removal order;

(d) is not detained in any penitentiary, jail, reformatory or prison;

(e) has not been convicted under the Criminal Code of

(i) an offence of a sexual nature, or an attempt or a threat to commit such an offence, against any person,

(i.1) an indictable offence involving the use of violence and punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 10 years, or an attempt to commit such an offence, against any person, or

(ii) an offence that results in bodily harm, as defined in section 2 of the Criminal Code, to any of the following persons or an attempt or a threat to commit such an offence against any of the following persons:

(A) a current or former family member of the sponsor,

(B) a relative of the sponsor, as well as a current or former family member of that relative,

(C) a relative of the family member of the sponsor, or a current or former family member of that relative,

(D) a current or former conjugal partner of the sponsor,

(E) a current or former family member of a family member or conjugal partner of the sponsor,

(F) a relative of the conjugal partner of the sponsor, or a current or former family member of that relative,

(G) a child under the current or former care and control of the sponsor, their current or former family member or conjugal partner,

(H) a child under the current or former care and control of a relative of the sponsor or a current or former family member of that relative, or

(I) someone the sponsor is dating or has dated, whether or not they have lived together, or a family member of that person;

Exception — conviction in Canada

(2) Despite paragraph (1)(e), a sponsorship application may not be refused if a period of five years or more has elapsed since the completion of the sentence imposed for an offence in Canada referred to in paragraph (1)(e).

What's the paragraph 1 (e)? yeah 5 yrs has elapsed since the incident happened and he got the appoval..he got approved aug. 2011...and there's a new ruling dated nov. 2011, about the addtl info about a person a sponsor is dating or has dated becoz that incident was betwen him and his ex-gf...will this affect the sponsorship ? wll they change the decision made last aug. 2011 becoz of the new ruling last nov. 2011? or they are just asking fo this rcmp for an updated records to see if he has currently having a bad record?he's been doing good since then...Thank you so much Galip Im so happy at least somebody helps me here somehow.You are amazing..xo

 

[redwine]

When we get the RCMP clearance will I be the one to send it here?..or my husband from canada he will mail it to the embassy here in the Phils.No instructions of who will send it...but they gave me the letter for this request.My husband said he will send it from canada to Manila,Phils.which is better?

 

[Galip]

What's the paragraph 1 (e)? yeah 5 yrs has elapsed since the incident happened and he got the appoval..he got approved aug. 2011...and there's a new ruling dated nov. 2011, about the addtl info about a person a sponsor is dating or has dated becoz that incident was betwen him and his ex-gf...will this affect the sponsorship ? wll they change the decision made last aug. 2011 becoz of the new ruling last nov. 2011? or they are just asking fo this rcmp for an updated records to see if he has currently having a bad record?he's been doing good since then...Thank you so much Galip Im so happy at least somebody helps me here somehow.You are amazing..xo

When we get the RCMP clearance will I be the one to send it here?..or my husband from canada he will mail it to the embassy here in the Phils.No instructions of who will send it...but they gave me the letter for this request.My husband said he will send it from canada to Manila,Phils.which is better?

Hi Redwine!

First of all its not a new rule, before November 2011 it was the same rule, they make some updates time to time but this doesn't matter for you.

I'll give you the link of Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations (SOR/2002-227)
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/page-50.html#docCont

For older and current version you'll track it from here:
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/PITIndex.html (there is no difference for your partner)

Here is the point: You said Your partner applied for spousal sponsorship in 2011. Exactly when in 2011? Find the exact date and count 5 years back. If his conviction happened before this date he should be fine, but if it's after then it might cause a problem. I believe the Visa Officer in Manila wants to see these dates and therefore they asked him to submit his record.

The answer of your last question: Your partner in Canada has to do this. He has to go to a local police station or an accedited agency for his fingerprints taken. Once his fingerprints taken they send his fingerprints to RCMP with the reason of his application (immigration purposes) and they will send his record to the Manila Visa office directly according to your request. If the read the site carefully you fill find all the directions.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/fing-empr2-eng.htm#a1

I'll be away for 2 weeks and may not answer any further questions, that's why I wrote everything in detail. Don't be upset, he'll be fine. The worst senario is reapplying for sponsorship. This will be a waste of time and money but at the end you'll get your PR visa for sure..

Stay strong and good luck!

 

[redwine]

Hi Redwine!

First of all its not a new rule, before November 2011 it was the same rule, they make some updates time to time but this doesn't matter for you.

I'll give you the link of Immigration and Refugee Protection Regulations (SOR/2002-227)
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/page-50.html#docCont

For older and current version you'll track it from here:
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2002-227/PITIndex.html (there is no difference for your partner)

Here is the point: You said Your partner applied for spousal sponsorship in 2011. Exactly when in 2011? Find the exact date and count 5 years back. If his conviction happened before this date he should be fine, but if it's after then it might cause a problem. I believe the Visa Officer in Manila wants to see these dates and therefore they asked him to submit his record.

The answer of your last question: Your partner in Canada has to do this. He has to go to a local police station or an accedited agency for his fingerprints taken. Once his fingerprints taken they send his fingerprints to RCMP with the reason of his application (immigration purposes) and they will send his record to the Manila Visa office directly according to your request. If the read the site carefully you fill find all the directions.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/fing-empr2-eng.htm#a1

I'll be away for 2 weeks and may not answer any further questions, that's why I wrote everything in detail. Don't be upset, he'll be fine. The worst senario is reapplying for sponsorship. This will be a waste of time and money but at the end you'll get your PR visa for sure..

Stay strong and good luck!

Hi Galip thanks so much for your time..My husband applied Apr or May 2011 got approved Aug.2011..So 5 yrs.....Im doing some research too of what kind of offences will be reflected at the RCMP clearance...It says here that only indictable or hybrid offences will be reflected and those not serious are not reflected only remain at the local police station unless requestd to be wipe out...He was discharged with conditions the 6 months probation..It says here that Conditional Discharge (Adult) : The accused is not convicted, but found guilty of an offence and is discharged with conditions listed in a probation order. Conditional Discharges do not usually contribute to an individual’s certified criminal record, but may contribute to local police records. Pursuant to the Criminal Code. ...His kind of offence is SUMMARY OFFENCE as far as he remembered.....but was conditionally discharged.......Anyways, let's just think positive and thank u very much Galip.You helped me alot.God bless you Galip in everything you do! Take care.

 

[Galip]

Hi Galip thanks so much for your time..My husband applied Apr or May 2011 got approved Aug.2011..So 5 yrs.....Im doing some research too of what kind of offences will be reflected at the RCMP clearance...It says here that only indictable or hybrid offences will be reflected and those not serious are not reflected only remain at the local police station unless requestd to be wipe out...He was discharged with conditions the 6 months probation..It says here that Conditional Discharge (Adult) : The accused is not convicted, but found guilty of an offence and is discharged with conditions listed in a probation order. Conditional Discharges do not usually contribute to an individual's certified criminal record, but may contribute to local police records. Pursuant to the Criminal Code. ...His kind of offence is SUMMARY OFFENCE as far as he remembered.....but was conditionally discharged.......Anyways, let's just think positive and thank u very much Galip.You helped me alot.God bless you Galip in everything you do! Take care.

Thank you for your nice comments, I appreciate it.

Yes if it's indictable offence he has no chance. Summary offence has to wait 5 years to apply for sponsorship. I posted the regulations. It's written on Paragraph 133.

But this 5 years is not clear. Do they consider the conviction date or the probation date? This I don't know. PMM is a senior member of this forum and he says says after probation on his post above. Your partner's probation ended on October 2006, in this case he should have applied for spousal sponsorship after October 2011.

It's a very unique situation, an immigration lawyer may help you but it's gonna be costly. If you receive any further corresponde please feel free to share it here.

God bless you too, stay strong and good luck!

 

[Galip]

Hi Redwine,

I was reading the guidelines and found something:

Here is the source:
http://www.buses.org/files/IMM5312E-Instruction%20Guide%20and%20Document%20Checklist%20for%20Application%20for%20Rehabilitation%20in%20Canada.pdf

Type of Sentence / Determining the Eligibility Date

Imprisonment without Parole / Count five years from the end of the term of imprisonment.

Imprisonment and Parole / Count five years from the completion of parole.

Probation / Probation is not considered part of a sentence or a conviction.
Therefore, count five years from the date of sentencing. Even if conditions
were imposed, probation should not be used in calculating the five
year period, which begins on the day of sentencing.

CIC doesn't consider probation as a part of a sentence or conviction. But if it is a parole then you have to count 5 years from the end of parole.

I believe this is good news for you.!

 

[redwine]

Hi Redwine,

I was reading the guidelines and found something:

Here is the source:
http://www.buses.org/files/IMM5312E-Instruction%20Guide%20and%20Document%20Checklist%20for%20Application%20for%20Rehabilitation%20in%20Canada.pdf

Type of Sentence / Determining the Eligibility Date

Imprisonment without Parole / Count five years from the end of the term of imprisonment.

Imprisonment and Parole / Count five years from the completion of parole.

Probation / Probation is not considered part of a sentence or a conviction.
Therefore, count five years from the date of sentencing. Even if conditions
were imposed, probation should not be used in calculating the five
year period, which begins on the day of sentencing.

CIC doesn't consider probation as a part of a sentence or conviction. But if it is a parole then you have to count 5 years from the end of parole.

I believe this is good news for you.!

Hi Galip Happy Canada day! Thanks so much for this info.This is a good news for us...My husband sent his fingerprint thru a commissionaires last June 22.How many days will it take to process it if for instance he has record there? Will they retained records even if 5 yrs has been passed by? Hopefully no more record...The letter that I got from the immigration says 150 days.They didn't give us a timeline when to send it but they said as soon as possible.Will the RCMP send it directly to Manila or send it to my husband?Thank you so much Galip! Take care

 

[Galip]

Hi Galip Happy Canada day! Thanks so much for this info.This is a good news for us...My husband sent his fingerprint thru a commissionaires last June 22.How many days will it take to process it if for instance he has record there? Will they retained records even if 5 yrs has been passed by? Hopefully no more record...The letter that I got from the immigration says 150 days.They didn't give us a timeline when to send it but they said as soon as possible.Will the RCMP send it directly to Manila or send it to my husband?Thank you so much Galip! Take care

Hi Redwine !

Here is their processing times.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/time-temps-eng.htm

Unfortunately they retained records even if 5 years has been passed by. His conviction will be seen on the document.

RCMP will send it to Manila if your partner requested this. Otherwise he will receive it and send it by himself.

If I were him I would apply for a Pardon. If he gets his Pardon, then they completely erase his record from their computers and files. It's a long process but once he is Pardoned and everything will be clear.

ps: I am still looking for a legal document which states that: "Probation is not considered part of a sentence or a conviction for immigration files" I found this from one of their guideline but it's not written in their immigration law. CIC should be more specific on this matter but they are not.

 

[redwine]

Hi Redwine !

Here is their processing times.
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cr-cj/time-temps-eng.htm

Unfortunately they retained records even if 5 years has been passed by. His conviction will be seen on the document.

RCMP will send it to Manila if your partner requested this. Otherwise he will receive it and send it by himself.

If I were him I would apply for a Pardon. If he gets his Pardon, then they completely erase his record from their computers and files. It's a long process but once he is Pardoned and everything will be clear.

ps: I am still looking for a legal document which states that: "Probation is not considered part of a sentence or a conviction for immigration files" I found this from one of their guideline but it's not written in their immigration law. CIC should be more specific on this matter but they are not.

Hi Galip!

He will apply for pardon this is for sure to delete this record from their files when we are done with this immigration thing.Hopefully this is it.Is this the last stage? Hopefully there's no more problem.From the link tthat you sent regarding IMMIGRATION CANADA-Rehabilitation For Persons Who are Inadmissible to Canada Because of Past Criminal Activity, it gives us hope and believed that we will pass this stage.God heard my prayers! They approved him to sponsor me and hopefully they will not reverse their decision made.Maybe they just wanna know if he has no more records after then....Keeping the faith! Thank you so much Galip for really researching this case for us.Very much appreciated.God is good all the time!

 

[Galip]

Hi Galip!

He will apply for pardon this is for sure to delete this record from their files when we are done with this immigration thing.Hopefully this is it.Is this the last stage? Hopefully there's no more problem.From the link tthat you sent regarding IMMIGRATION CANADA-Rehabilitation For Persons Who are Inadmissible to Canada Because of Past Criminal Activity, it gives us hope and believed that we will pass this stage.God heard my prayers! They approved him to sponsor me and hopefully they will not reverse their decision made.Maybe they just wanna know if he has no more records after then....Keeping the faith! Thank you so much Galip for really researching this case for us.Very much appreciated.God is good all the time!

Hello Redwine,

He could apply for Pardon at any time. The pardon process is totally seperated than immigration process. It takes 18-24 months to obtain it. If I were him, I would apply it right now just to save the time.

I am still not very sure about the probation issue. On one hand CIC has a guideline and it says "Probation is not considered part of a sentence or a conviction" but on the other hand on this link http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip02-eng.pdf on page 20 it says

Sponsors or co-signers convicted of either of these offences
where five years have not passed since the completion of the
sentence imposed, cannot sponsor unless:
• for convictions in Canada, they have been pardoned or
finally acquitted;
• for convictions outside Canada, they have shown, at least
five years after the expiry of the sentence, that they have
been rehabilitated, or there has been a final acquittal.

For the purposes of calculating the five-year period above, a
sentence includes probation, suspended sentences and
intermittent sentences. However, conditional discharges and
absolute discharges should not be considered for the purposes
of these provisions of IRPA.
See Assessing bars to sponsorship, section 14.

on Page 40 it says

If the sponsor is convicted of a sexual offence against
anyone or of an offence related to family violence against a
family member

CPC staff will:
• review self-declaration by sponsor;
• verify FOSS; and
• request, from the sponsor, a Canadian Police Information
Center (CPIC) check where warranted

CPC
• if convictions are known or suspected, CPC sends the cases
to a CIC for follow-up.

CIC
• verifies the court records;
• confirms the relationship with the victim; and
• advises the CPC of the results.

CPC
• Regarding a conviction in Canada, if five years have not
passed since the completion of the sentence imposed, or a
pardon has not been granted, the sponsor is ineligible.
• Regarding a conviction outside of Canada, if there has not
been a final determination of acquittal or if a period of five
years or more has not passed since the completion of the
sentence imposed and the sponsor has not demonstrated
that they have been rehabilitated, the sponsor is ineligible.
• For the purposes of calculating a sentence, probation,
suspended sentences and intermittent sentences are
sentences. Conditional discharges and absolute discharges
should not be considered for the purposes of these
provisions of IRPA.
• Informs the sponsor of the ineligibility.


Once again this is a very serious and unique situation. I am not a lawyer and can't give you a legal advise. I hope they don't count his probation term and approve his sponsorship.

Keep stong and good luck!

 

[redwine]

Hello Redwine,

He could apply for Pardon at any time. The pardon process is totally seperated than immigration process. It takes 18-24 months to obtain it. If I were him, I would apply it right now just to save the time.

I am still not very sure about the probation issue. On one hand CIC has a guideline and it says "Probation is not considered part of a sentence or a conviction" but on the other hand on this link http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/ip/ip02-eng.pdf on page 20 it says

Sponsors or co-signers convicted of either of these offences
where five years have not passed since the completion of the
sentence imposed, cannot sponsor unless:
• for convictions in Canada, they have been pardoned or
finally acquitted;
• for convictions outside Canada, they have shown, at least
five years after the expiry of the sentence, that they have
been rehabilitated, or there has been a final acquittal.

For the purposes of calculating the five-year period above, a
sentence includes probation, suspended sentences and
intermittent sentences. However, conditional discharges and
absolute discharges should not be considered for the purposes
of these provisions of IRPA.
See Assessing bars to sponsorship, section 14.

on Page 40 it says

If the sponsor is convicted of a sexual offence against
anyone or of an offence related to family violence against a
family member

CPC staff will:
• review self-declaration by sponsor;
• verify FOSS; and
• request, from the sponsor, a Canadian Police Information
Center (CPIC) check where warranted

CPC
• if convictions are known or suspected, CPC sends the cases
to a CIC for follow-up.

CIC
• verifies the court records;
• confirms the relationship with the victim; and
• advises the CPC of the results.

CPC
• Regarding a conviction in Canada, if five years have not
passed since the completion of the sentence imposed, or a
pardon has not been granted, the sponsor is ineligible.
• Regarding a conviction outside of Canada, if there has not
been a final determination of acquittal or if a period of five
years or more has not passed since the completion of the
sentence imposed and the sponsor has not demonstrated
that they have been rehabilitated, the sponsor is ineligible.
• For the purposes of calculating a sentence, probation,
suspended sentences and intermittent sentences are
sentences. Conditional discharges and absolute discharges
should not be considered for the purposes of these
provisions of IRPA.
• Informs the sponsor of the ineligibility.


Once again this is a very serious and unique situation. I am not a lawyer and can't give you a legal advise. I hope they don't count his probation term and approve his sponsorship.

Keep stong and good luck!

Once again thanks Galip! Yeah ours is very unique.I couldn't even find a case here same as ours....Actually the CIC asked for the court order and written explaination how is he related to the victim.He sent the court order and written explaination, and then after few months he got approved...He was actually discharged with condition and the condition was 6 months probation and he attended the 10 weeks anger management program. No jail time for him.....Hopefully, he is really eligible to sponsor as what they wrote on their letter of approval...We're keeping the faith! God knows our heart's desire.His will be done.Whether it is favorable this time or not, He always have a better plan for all of us though it hurts alot!At first when they asked me about my sponsor's clearance I was really devastated, & grouchy and don't wanna hear negative thoughts ! My bad..I should have appreciate them for at least giving their attention to me.... ..If this is the right time for me to go there in Canada, that would be GREAT! but I thank you fo the people around me esp. you Galip for really giving extra effort to help out people! At least somehow there's somebody who will try lessen my worries , stress and frustrations.....Thank you so much GALIP..Hopefully more more infos to come!

 

[redwine]

HI gALIP!

I've read the link that you just sent.It's quite a long process to determine the eligibility of the sponsor.The CPC and CIC work together & coordinate with each other before they make a decision.Looking at the whole process I think there's only a lil chance of error.And I hope ours is not an error. ...Keeping the faith!

 

[Galip]

No problem Redwine. I wish you and your partner the best.

Good luck!

 

[redwine]

No problem Redwine. I wish you and your partner the best.

Good luck!

Hi Galip! Got an update, RCMP called my husband yesterday that they mailed the clearance last july 3, so it's coming...Is this a good sign coz we got it too fast than 120 or 150 days? Hopefully eh....We will send this to Manila very soon. Hopefully no bad records on his clearance...Background check is the last stage?How are you? Hope you're good Galip.Thanks!

 

[Galip]

Hi Galip! Got an update, RCMP called my husband yesterday that they mailed the clearance last july 3, so it's coming...Is this a good sign coz we got it too fast than 120 or 150 days? Hopefully eh....We will send this to Manila very soon. Hopefully no bad records on his clearance...Background check is the last stage?How are you? Hope you're good Galip.Thanks!

Hi Redwine!

I read another source about the matter. They say 5 years period starts after probation.

Here is the link:
http://www.cba.org/cba/cle/PDF/IMM11_Sedai_ENF14%20%282008-04-21%29.pdf (read page 20)

ENF 141 OP 19 Criminal Rehabilitation
DISTRIBUTION LIMITED TO CIC AND THE CBSA
16. Procedure: Calculation of the start date of the five-year or 1O-year period
The following will assist in the calculation of the start date of the five-year or 10-year period:
Act: the date on which the act occurred.
Conviction: the date of the end of the sentence.
Conviction and sentence In sbsentJtr. not eligible for rehabilitation because the sentence has
not been completed.
Imprisonment without parole: the date the term of imprisonment is completed.
Parole: the date on which parole ended.
Probation: is part of the sentence. Therefore, count from the end of the probation period.

CIC is not very clear on this, but when you read their manuals you see all the details.

I wish you good luck! All the best..