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Sponsor Death

Luckyman

Hero Member
Sep 18, 2011
475
10
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
I know it's a grim topic, but what happens to the permanent resident if the sponsor dies?

I'm trying to set up my wife on my life insurance and am curious if anyone has dealt with how to proceed, currently she is 100% beneficiary, but how would she get money if something happened to me?

And if her PR was already granted, and she was here, and something happened, what would be the course of action for Canada immigration?

Thanks!
 

McDutch

Hero Member
Dec 20, 2011
340
19
Visa Office......
Vienna
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
13-06-2012
AOR Received.
26-09-2012
File Transfer...
11-08-2012
Med's Done....
REDONE: 22-01-2013
LANDED..........
26-04-2013
If she is PR, she's PR.

IF she's in the progress, then the application will have to be withdrawn.
Once you get the card, you are just like any other Canadian, you just can't vote
 

Luckyman

Hero Member
Sep 18, 2011
475
10
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
OK...sounds good, thanks.

I guess life insurance complies with providing basic needs, even after sponsor death
 

McDutch

Hero Member
Dec 20, 2011
340
19
Visa Office......
Vienna
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
13-06-2012
AOR Received.
26-09-2012
File Transfer...
11-08-2012
Med's Done....
REDONE: 22-01-2013
LANDED..........
26-04-2013
Well, what i mean is, she will be on her own and it will be tough, but it won't hurt her PR status
 

PMM

VIP Member
Jun 30, 2005
25,494
1,947
Hi


Luckyman said:
OK...sounds good, thanks.

I guess life insurance complies with providing basic needs, even after sponsor death
1. No, if your spouse is the beneficiary of an insurance policy for lets say, $100K, then if you die, the insurance company pays her $100K. S/he would also be eligible for CPP pension and death benefit.
 

abscott

Hero Member
Feb 24, 2013
285
2
Manila
Visa Office......
Manila
App. Filed.......
07-08-2013
AOR Received.
23-08-2013
File Transfer...
04-09-2013
Med's Done....
10-06-2013
Passport Req..
15-May-2014
VISA ISSUED...
12-22-2014
LANDED..........
02-20-2015
What if the spouse is not the beneficiary or she doesn't know and they have a pre-nuptial agreement. What happens? What benefits will the wife entitled to?
 

abscott

Hero Member
Feb 24, 2013
285
2
Manila
Visa Office......
Manila
App. Filed.......
07-08-2013
AOR Received.
23-08-2013
File Transfer...
04-09-2013
Med's Done....
10-06-2013
Passport Req..
15-May-2014
VISA ISSUED...
12-22-2014
LANDED..........
02-20-2015
so you mean a pre-nuptial agreement is of no value at all if a will had been changed already. If he has children in the 1st spouse, the 2nd spouse and the children in the 2nd spouse have nothing to claim in anything even if had been a CPP contributor?The wife doesn't know of any benefits they could be entitled to.
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,928
20,540
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
so you mean a pre-nuptial agreement is of no value at all if a will had been changed already. If he has children in the 1st spouse, the 2nd spouse and the children in the 2nd spouse have nothing to claim in anything even if had been a CPP contributor?The wife doesn't know of any benefits they could be entitled to.
The wife needs to speak with a lawyer.
 

abscott

Hero Member
Feb 24, 2013
285
2
Manila
Visa Office......
Manila
App. Filed.......
07-08-2013
AOR Received.
23-08-2013
File Transfer...
04-09-2013
Med's Done....
10-06-2013
Passport Req..
15-May-2014
VISA ISSUED...
12-22-2014
LANDED..........
02-20-2015
Hi Kaibigan, I addressed the question in general so that everybody in same situation could relate, but anyway but it's genuine because I am in that situation, I am married to a widower with 2 adult children, mine was 15 yrs old and 22 when we got married 2012, so I had an accompanying son with me. We had a pre-nuptial agreement which I requested from him and according to his lawyer even if his will is changed every now and then the pre-nuptial agreement will always be connected in the will which I don't know if it's true. We got separated 2016 due to several issues, one of which the children sold the house and let him stay in an apartment and then in a retirement home. He didn't support us from that time and wasn't able to send even money for the plane due to the son took over the management of his finances. He died last month but I wasn't informed by the children. I just want to know what benefits do I have as a surviving spouse. Thank you very much for any insights you could give me. Leon sent me a link on surviving spouse benefits where I could check if I might be eligible even if we got separated. I want to know also if there is any benefit that my son could qualify he's 22 now because he will be needing some therapy for a certain problem.
 

abscott

Hero Member
Feb 24, 2013
285
2
Manila
Visa Office......
Manila
App. Filed.......
07-08-2013
AOR Received.
23-08-2013
File Transfer...
04-09-2013
Med's Done....
10-06-2013
Passport Req..
15-May-2014
VISA ISSUED...
12-22-2014
LANDED..........
02-20-2015
Hi Kaibigan, thanks much for the information. It will help a lot. I have another question, my eldest son is still in the Philippines, is there a program applicable to his case, he doesn't have parent or sibling in the Philippines. Is there any possible that he would be allowed to come through a certain program aside from skilled workers? Thanks very much.
 

Naturgrl

VIP Member
Apr 5, 2020
39,692
8,168
Hi Kaibigan, thanks much for the information. It will help a lot. I have another question, my eldest son is still in the Philippines, is there a program applicable to his case, he doesn't have parent or sibling in the Philippines. Is there any possible that he would be allowed to come through a certain program aside from skilled workers? Thanks very much.
If your son is over 22 he needs to immigrate on his own or study in Canada.
 
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YVR123

VIP Member
Jul 27, 2017
6,559
2,506
Hi Kaibigan, thanks much for the information. It will help a lot. I have another question, my eldest son is still in the Philippines, is there a program applicable to his case, he doesn't have parent or sibling in the Philippines. Is there any possible that he would be allowed to come through a certain program aside from skilled workers? Thanks very much.
You older son needs to apply on his own. May be get more education, language skill and work experience to up his points.
btw. your last seperated husband is no longer your sponsor. I guess you just replied on an existing thread that seems revelant. If you became a PR before 2016, you are on your own. So this is an estate question.

Since his son from first marriage is in control of his finance even befor he passed, I am not sure how much he still owned under his name.
 

abscott

Hero Member
Feb 24, 2013
285
2
Manila
Visa Office......
Manila
App. Filed.......
07-08-2013
AOR Received.
23-08-2013
File Transfer...
04-09-2013
Med's Done....
10-06-2013
Passport Req..
15-May-2014
VISA ISSUED...
12-22-2014
LANDED..........
02-20-2015
Hello, I know there is a will, but I'm sure the children had it changed so that we won't be included there. In that case, I don't have any right to know that, in my own understanding. He had mentioned one time that when he dies, I could take our marriage certificate to the Court of Justice, but I don't really get what he means that time, so I don't know it's purpose. Would you have some ideas about it. If ever I do that, that purpose would it serve?

With regards to my son, he needs to be in school full-time, to be able to claim for his benefit as per Service Canada info.

We got married after his retirement age, would that affect my claim as surviving spouse, because I read somewhere that if you get married after retirement age, the spouse will not be entitled to a survivor's pension. Any information that you could give me on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
 

Naturgrl

VIP Member
Apr 5, 2020
39,692
8,168
Hello, I know there is a will, but I'm sure the children had it changed so that we won't be included there. In that case, I don't have any right to know that, in my own understanding. He had mentioned one time that when he dies, I could take our marriage certificate to the Court of Justice, but I don't really get what he means that time, so I don't know it's purpose. Would you have some ideas about it. If ever I do that, that purpose would it serve?

With regards to my son, he needs to be in school full-time, to be able to claim for his benefit as per Service Canada info.

We got married after his retirement age, would that affect my claim as surviving spouse, because I read somewhere that if you get married after retirement age, the spouse will not be entitled to a survivor's pension. Any information that you could give me on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
First, get a lawyer. You said you have a prenuptial agreement so that may “over-ride” the will in many situations. You get a lawyer, show the prenup and challenge the estate/will. How old are your children? As for Canadian survivor benefits under CPP, did your husband legally adopt your sons? Did your husband financially support your children and live with him full-time? If he didn’t they may not entitled to benefits. See below. Again get a lawyer and don’t rely on a forum. Not sure what schooling has to do with benefits. You need to fill out the link for survivor benefits.

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/publicpensions/cpp/cpp-survivor-pension.html

To be eligible, the child must be:

  • the natural child of the contributor
  • a child adopted “legally" or "in fact" by the contributor while under the age of 21
  • a child "legally" or "in fact" in the custody and control of the contributor while under the age of 21
 
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Naturgrl

VIP Member
Apr 5, 2020
39,692
8,168
I must confess to being astonished by the above opinion. I have never heard of a pre-nuptial agreement overriding a testamentary disposition. Naturgrl speaks in the clearest of terms, so I'll assume she knows for sure. Perhaps she is a wills & estates lawyer, which I am not, and her knowledge base is superior. In my law practice, in the early days, I did some wills and estates law, but never got too deep into it. So my knowledge could just be deficient in some respects.

Nevertheless, I remain mildly taken aback by Naturgrl's strong opinion because, even though I cannot hold myself out as a wills & estates practitioner, some of my lack of personal experience is mitigated by my research experience. I have read almost every judgment from every court in British Columbia starting at January 1, 1982. So, along with cases touching on all areas of he law, I have read all the wills and estates cases. Not many out there have done that. That includes all Supreme Court of Canada cases that had their genesis in BC. In all of that, I do not recall encountering a case in which the language of a pre-nuptial agreement (now more generally known in BC as a "marriage agreement", prevailed over the language of a will. I am reinforced in my view that, at least in BC it does not, in light of, inter alia, this provision of the Wills, Estates and Succession Act:

Property that can be gifted by will

  • 41 (1) A person may, by will, make a gift of property to which he or she is entitled at law or in equity at the time of his or her death, including property acquired before, on or after the date the will is made.
  • (2) Unless a contrary intention appears in a will, when a will refers to property, the will, with respect to the property, is to be interpreted as if it had been made immediately before the death of the will-maker.
  • (3) A gift in a will
  • (a) takes effect according to its terms, and
  • (b) subject to the terms of the gift, gives to the recipient of the gift every legal or equitable interest in the property that the will-maker had the legal capacity to give.
I draw particular sustenance from this phrase: the will, with respect to the property, is to be interpreted as if it had been made immediately before the death of the will-maker. I construe that wording to mean, for example, something along these lines: Let's say husband (H) and wife (W) enter into a pre-nuptial agreement. In that agreement they agree that the house owned by the husband at the date of marriage is his "excluded property" (a Family Law Act term). They expressly agree that W will never have any claim to it. Now, let's suppose, a few years later, H dies, leaving a will. The will says H leaves his house to W. Can some saucy intruder now pull the pre-nuptial agreement out of a hat, and come forward and say to W "not so fast there honey, this here document says you don't get the house, so get lost? Can that really happen?

Remember, the Act says the will is to be construed as speaking immediately before the testator's death. Can the pre-nup speak any louder? I would say no.

I am also disinclined to accept that any marriage agreement can render nugatory will provisions simply on my knowledge that the validity of marriage agreements is open to attack on many grounds, including (but not limited to) lack of independent legal advice, unfairness, fraud, oppression, misrepresentation, failure to make full financial disclosure.

I'll draw an even longer bow here since, the more I think about it, the more I can see cause why a marriage agreement should be ignored and regarded as spent upon the demise of a party to it. First of all, such agreements are not generally regarded as testamentary dispositions. And, in the absence of a will, most, if not all, provinces have legislation setting out who gets what out of the estate, with spouses and children standing first in line. So, upon an intestacy, does one applying for letters of administration, have to undertake a search for a pre-nup and attempt to interpret and apply its terms as more authoritative than the statute? That strikes me as a foundation resting on sand. One can ask, similarly, in the case of an executor applying for letters probate, must said executor cast about to see if there's a pre-nup out there somewhere, perhaps shrouded in the mists of time, that will cause the will to be regarded as a thing writ in water?

Naturgrl is aware of many situations where the pre-nup has prevailed and I would welcome any input from her as to the jurisdiction in which that has occurred and, if she can share any case law, I would appreciate reading it, to see the kind of reasoning employed by the courts in arriving at that result.

In the end, I'll echo Naturgrl's advice to seek legal advice. No one here can sort all of this out for you online on a forum, particularly on a forum dedicated to immigration issues. We have indulged in something of a diversion here. I mentioned to Lawyer Referral Service. It can be a good starting point if you have no other legal resources to hand and the first 30 minutes of consultation will be at no charge.
Excellent points. That is why I said to get a good lawyer and time is of the essence. This is not an immigration issue. And we don’t know what the prenup outlines (if it discusses his passing) or in what province the prenup was filed. Also prenup is more of a Canadian term, Canadian law uses the term ”marriage contract.” “Over-ride” may be a strong word but since the spouse was retired, I would hope the prenuptial would have outlined what would happen in the event of the passing of a spouse especially when it is a second marriage (with step-children) and there are adult children from the first spouse. Same with any insurance policies, as it is important to name a beneficiary. And many people don’t name a beneficiary.

Using Ontario Family Law Act as an example, section 52(10) outlines Marriage Contracts. It states,

52 (1) Two persons who are married to each other or intend to marry may enter into an agreement in which they agree on their respective rights and obligations under the marriage or on separation, on the annulment or dissolution of the marriage or on death.

A surviving spouse could be excluded under the deceased’s will. However, it has to be proven that the marriage contract can be set aside [section 56(4)].

Setting aside domestic contract

56 (4) A court may, on application, set aside a domestic contract or a provision in it,

(a) if a party failed to disclose to the other significant assets, or significant debts or other liabilities, existing when the domestic contract was made;

(b) if a party did not understand the nature or consequences of the domestic contract; or

(c) otherwise in accordance with the law of contract. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.3, s. 56 (4).


HERE is the issue, you only have six months from the date of death [section 6(10) FLA] to file.

Again we are “guessing” on little information.

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90f03#BK61
 
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