Speculative/Hypothetical: Knowledge of French, if applying for Citizenship from Quebec.

[8494193]

So, this seems to have happened: LEGISinfo - Private Member’s Bill C-223 (43-2) (parl.ca)

My question/concern is: Have there been previous attempts to enforce such a rule? I am a PR in Quebec who only moved here for job reasons (actually landed outside of QC before under FSW). So, if such a rule were to come into effect, that would mean additional time to prep and learn French - which is not a problem per se except that it will delay my application. I'm sure there may be many like me who may not have knowledge of French and would need to put in extra resources as a part of the naturalization process.

Now, I am aware that the bill is in it's early stages, and may never pass. But better to be mentally prepared

 

[BOYX]

So, this seems to have happened: LEGISinfo - Private Member’s Bill C-223 (43-2) (parl.ca)

My question/concern is: Have there been previous attempts to enforce such a rule? I am a PR in Quebec who only moved here for job reasons (actually landed outside of QC before under FSW). So, if such a rule were to come into effect, that would mean additional time to prep and learn French - which is not a problem per se except that it will delay my application. I'm sure there may be many like me who may not have knowledge of French and would need to put in extra resources as a part of the naturalization process.

Now, I am aware that the bill is in it's early stages, and may never pass. But better to be mentally prepared

Move out to another province temporarily when you need to apply for your Citizenship. I would speculate every non-French speaker would do the same.

The ability to do the above is exactly why such a bill won’t pass lol. Québec needs immigration much like every single other province in Canada. Without immigration, the province’s resources are going to remain under-utilized. We are the second biggest country in the world and we barely any job opportunities, especially in Tertiary sectors. Look at the U.S in comparison. No wonder they are the biggest Economy in the world; their resources are being fully utilized due to the great immigration they have already had.

Therefore, this bill is just a stupid bill to simply satisfy the Québécois nationalists. It is nothing realistic and will not pass. The only way the above could be in place is if you weren’t allowed to leave your province as a PR (Spoiler Alert: you are allowed to leave). Naturally such a thing will not happen because it’s practically Serfdom and then natural next step is to re-instate a member of the Charlemagne Dynasty as Emperor of Québec (Spoiler Alert 2: Not happening either lol).

But if you are still concerned, I say try learning French. You will only stand to benefit, with increased job opportunities. I can already speak a bit. But I have already begun to learn formally for my own development. Also it’s a beautiful language with a lot of great movies, music & other forms of culture.

 

[8494193]

Move out to another province temporarily when you need to apply for your Citizenship. I would speculate every non-French speaker would do the same.

The ability to do the above is exactly why such a bill won’t pass lol. Québec needs immigration much like every single other province in Canada. Without immigration, the province’s resources are going to remain under-utilized. We are the second biggest country in the world and we barely any job opportunities, especially in Tertiary sectors. Look at the U.S in comparison. No wonder they are the biggest Economy in the world; their resources are being fully utilized due to the great immigration they have already had.

Therefore, this bill is just a stupid bill to simply satisfy the Québécois nationalists. It is nothing realistic and will not pass. The only way the above could be in place is if you weren’t allowed to leave your province as a PR (Spoiler Alert: you are allowed to leave). Naturally such a thing will not happen because it’s practically Serfdom and then natural next step is to re-instate a member of the Charlemagne Dynasty as Emperor of Québec (Spoiler Alert 2: Not happening either lol).

But if you are still concerned, I say try learning French. You will only stand to benefit, with increased job opportunities. I can already speak a bit. But I have already begun to learn formally for my own development. Also it’s a beautiful language with a lot of great movies, music & other forms of culture.

Well said! Yes, that aligns with my thinking too, lol.

On the language side, I've actually begun learning - it's just that I've been a slow learner when it comes to languages. Regardless, I'm enjoying it - I can now do a grocery-run, including checking out using just French at the store.

 

[deadbird]

I have the same concern as well. Though this bill may not pass in the short term it is not impossible for it to pass sometime next year. The liberal minority govt is very likely to be replaced by the conservatives and they have already expressed their support for this bill as a means to pander to votes from Quebec. In fact, this might be one of the first bills that the bloc prioritizes if the conservatives get elected.

If so an additional concern is that citizenship tests are heavily backlogged right now given that tests are suspended indefinitely. It's unclear if all English applications will be retroactively rejected if the bill passes. That's probably catastrophizing a bit, but the Legault government has set a precedent for doing so by canceling pending PEQ applications and asking everyone to re-apply.

To hedge against this risk, it might make sense to submit the application in French if one can learn it soon enough.

 

[Seym]

To answer the question regarding the previous attempts, yeah, that's something BQ comes with regularly.

Here's an article in French from September 2019 about it, which also says that they deposited bills for this matter in previous years too... https://www.lapresse.ca/elections-federales/2019-09-24/bloc-francais-pour-la-citoyennete-et-loi-101

 

[BOYX]

Well said! Yes, that aligns with my thinking too, lol.

On the language side, I've actually begun learning - it's just that I've been a slow learner when it comes to languages. Regardless, I'm enjoying it - I can now do a grocery-run, including checking out using just French at the store.

I have the same concern as well. Though this bill may not pass in the short term it is not impossible for it to pass sometime next year. The liberal minority govt is very likely to be replaced by the conservatives and they have already expressed their support for this bill as a means to pander to votes from Quebec. In fact, this might be one of the first bills that the bloc prioritizes if the conservatives get elected.

If so an additional concern is that citizenship tests are heavily backlogged right now given that tests are suspended indefinitely. It's unclear if all English applications will be retroactively rejected if the bill passes. That's probably catastrophizing a bit, but the Legault government has set a precedent for doing so by canceling pending PEQ applications and asking everyone to re-apply.

To hedge against this risk, it might make sense to submit the application in French if one can learn it soon enough.

Yes, it is generally a great idea to learn French. Just an FYI, all immigrants (current PRs & recent Citizens) have access to free English & French classes paid for by the government. There are also online classes during this pandemic.

I highly suggest one utilize these because they provide certification used by the government.

Also, being in Québec, I assume one can become a fluent speaker in French as quick as within 4 months. This speed is what language immersion programs bank on. Of course, one needs to use French exclusively.

In my experience, a lot of people in Québec just spoke in English to me whenever I spoke my broken French. Therefore, one needs to be persistent there in order to improve. In my short vacation to Québec, I simply pretend by saying “no English” whenever they switched to it

 

[chilldude_2409]

Blunt opinion...we can't just "learn French" by talking to people or taking a short course. This process is extremely intensive and time consuming and could take up to more than a year. I did B2 level French (took me 8-9 months from scratch) and got through the PEQ program. I think right after the Legault govt increased the level from B2 to C1 sometime last year. I can safely say that it will take 1-1.5 years to get to C1 level with 2-4 hours of daily constant practice. Now I don't know what Bloc Quebecois guys mean by "sufficient knowledge"...if it's C1 level, then it will be really difficult for everyone in Quebec.

My concern is this...reading from the article above, it looks like BQ has proposed this bill a few times in the past. What are the chances of it getting through this time and what are the possible timelines? Most people are dismissing the bill on this group...but what if it passes? That would throw 10000s of PRs in Quebec into further turmoil along with delays with Citizenship tests.

 

[8494193]

Blunt opinion...we can't just "learn French" by talking to people or taking a short course. This process is extremely intensive and time consuming and could take up to more than a year. I did B2 level French (took me 8-9 months from scratch) and got through the PEQ program. I think right after the Legault govt increased the level from B2 to C1 sometime last year. I can safely say that it will take 1-1.5 years to get to C1 level with 2-4 hours of daily constant practice. Now I don't know what Bloc Quebecois guys mean by "sufficient knowledge"...if it's C1 level, then it will be really difficult for everyone in Quebec.

My concern is this...reading from the article above, it looks like BQ has proposed this bill a few times in the past. What are the chances of it getting through this time and what are the possible timelines? Most people are dismissing the bill on this group...but what if it passes? That would throw 10000s of PRs in Quebec into further turmoil along with delays with Citizenship tests.

Currently, citizenship needs CLB 4 equivalent proficiency in English OR French. My interpretation is that the bill would make it 'English AND French for those residing in Quebec' at the same proficiency level of 4 (?). Pure guessing at this point though

 

[chilldude_2409]

Just had a quick look...if it's CLB 4, then that's around DELF A2 level (maybe someone could double confirm this)...will probably take 3-4 months for someone learning from scratch based on my experience (and some friends) from A1 to B2.

 

[8494193]

Just had a quick look...if it's CLB 4, then that's around DELF A2 level (maybe someone could double confirm this)...will probably take 3-4 months for someone learning from scratch based on my experience (and some friends) from A1 to B2.

...which isn't too bad - but still a decent chunk of time and commitment.

 

[piotrqc]

Relax friends ... I remind you that the BQ is a party which presents candidates ... Only in Quebec.

So he will NEVER have a numerical possibility of majority. It is mathematical.

I also remind you that ALL the other parties voted against, no one supported them, not even the Conservatives.

Last element: If, hypotetically, one day such a law were to pass, it will be immediately annihilated by any judge of the federal court : Indeed, it is opposed to the law on the official languages of Canada (La langue official can be either French or English ... But not both).

... Believe me, the BQ does not bring up this bill (which they know lost in advance), only to please their militant bases and to play on the sensitive chords of separatism (They can dream, it is allowed: Quebec will always be a province of Canada).

Anyway ... I think it would be more rational in the immediate future to worry about the current blocking (and the cancellation, de facto) of the citizenship procedure, because of the stopping of the tests, ad vitam æternam (indefinitely).

 

[armoured]

So, this seems to have happened: LEGISinfo - Private Member’s Bill C-223 (43-2) (parl.ca)

My question/concern is: Have there been previous attempts to enforce such a rule?

It simply won't pass. No other party will support. Don't spend any more time thinking about this.

Use your time to learn a bit of french, it's fun and useful in its own right. The politics of language mostly are not.

 

[Seym]

For what it's worth, the (some?) conservatives actually voiced their "support" of the latest BQ attempt.
See Alain Rayes' comments here : https://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/590035/pas-assez-d-appui-au-bloc-pour-exiger-le-francais-aux-candidats-a-la-citoyennete

But it's probably more of an attempt to grab some of the voices of the french majority the BQ is targeting here, knowing very well that both the NDP and Liberals said nop.

Btw @piotrqc, not sure what you mean by "La langue official can be either French or English ... But not both".
New Brunswick has both languages as official...

As a side note, why doesn't the BQ target something a bit more "difficult" than immigrants (LOL, we know why, but let's pretend)? They can always come with a bill requiring every cabinet member to have a good level in both languages. Ottawa's current bilinguism is in practice "english with a minority speaking both languages". So well, go for it. I for one would support that

 

[Copingwithlife]

Obviously people posting regarding this were not around or not aware of the English exodus in the 70’s. French will ALWAYS come first in Quebec no matter what people want or say.
That’s just the way it is . Do a bit of research before moving to the province
It’s amusing that individuals that who’ve chosen to go to a province think they are going to change things /culture that started back on the Plains of Abraham, over two hundred years ago .
Or they have no clue what the Plains of Abraham was
It’s cute

 

[chilldude_2409]

Anyway ... I think it would be more rational in the immediate future to worry about the current blocking (and the cancellation, de facto) of the citizenship procedure, because of the stopping of the tests, ad vitam æternam (indefinitely).

Agreed...one problem at a time...the citizenship test is the real bottleneck here.