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Should we enter Canada while A desicion is pending on our appeal

Ralma

Newbie
Oct 31, 2018
7
0
Hi
I have been a Canadian Pr in 2014 but after landing left Canada and entered again in 2017. We don’t fullfil residency days. Our Pr was removed in the airport only for being 45 days late. We made an appeal and now the case is pending. We had to leave Canada right after the hearing since we missed a number one family member now and it has been two months till today that we are out and still a decision is not made and our Pr is vaild till next sep do you think we could enter safely now or if we enter it would affect the decision ? Is there any record that we have left the country once we left from ground US border?
 
Last edited:

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
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Toronto
Category........
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Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
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AOR Received.
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LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Hi
I have been a Canadian Pr in 2014 but after landing left Canada and entered again in 2017. We don’t fullfil residency days. Our Pr was removed in the airport only for being 45 days late. We made an appeal and now the case is pending. We had to leave Canada right after the hearing since we missed a number one family member now and it has been two months till today that we are out and still a decision is not made and our Pr is vaild till next sep do you think we could enter safely now or if we enter it would affect the decision ? Is there any record that we have left the country once we left from ground US border?
Canada and the US share records. So yes - Canada will be able to access the information that shows that you left the country.
 

Ralma

Newbie
Oct 31, 2018
7
0
Any suggestions we should re enter before a decision is made or should we wait for a decision?
Has any one had the same experiance ?
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,821
20,488
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Any suggestions we should re enter before a decision is made or should we wait for a decision?
Has any one had the same experiance ?
I would go back to Canada as soon as you can and stay there until a decision is made. Leaving for long periods of time makes it look like your PR status isn't important to you.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,265
3,028
Any suggestions we should re enter before a decision is made or should we wait for a decision?
Has any one had the same experiance ?
In addition to the observations by @scylla: presence in Canada can be a big factor in what chance there is of a successful appeal.


Explanation:

One day in breach is a breach. That will result in the IAD concluding the 44(1) Report was valid in law.

The only hope of an appeal succeeding when the Report is valid in law is that there are sufficient H&C reasons to justify the retaining of PR status.

The nature, duration, and other aspects of extent to which the PR is settled in Canada, has established a life in Canada, can be a very big factor in the H&C assessment. In a close case, the PR actually living and present in Canada has far better odds of making a successful H&C case than does the PR outside Canada. The more in Canada, the better the odds.

Thus, while the fact of living and being present in Canada pending the appeal will NOT itself win the H&C case, it can make a big difference AND the contrary, being outside Canada pending the appeal, can easily tip the H&C calculation to the negative.


Longer Explanation:

This H&C assessment is very different from other kinds of H&C cases.

Some of the same elements apply. For example, if losing PR status means minor children will be separated from a parent, or the PR will be compelled to return to a country where the individual would face severe hardship, these weigh heavily in favour of H&C relief . . . in almost any H&C case, including PR breach of PR Residency Obligation cases.

But the scope of H&C consideration is broader and more lenient in the PR breach of PR Residency Obligation case. In large part because a Canadian PR is legally a Canadian, and of course Canadian immigration law is more flexible and lenient in dealing with Canadians than it is in dealing with Foreign Nationals.

HOWEVER, this only goes so far. This has real limitations. And its limitations are in many respects more or less strictly applied given how lenient and flexible the PR RO itself is.

CONTEXT MATTERS. One contextual factor looms particularly large: how big the breach of the PR RO is. Being short by 45 days during the FIRST five years after landing is, probably, on the less serious end of the spectrum. Indeed, many PRs returning to Canada during the first five years after landing but who have been outside Canada a total of 1095 or more days since landing, are NOT reported at a PoE if it is not blatantly obvious they are short . . . such as a PR who landed in August 2015 returning to Canada in October 2018 and being 30 or 40 days short of compliance.

BUT as many of us repeatedly emphasize in this forum, if the PR is in fact in breach, there is a RISK of being reported upon arrival at the PoE.

And, as noted above, even if the breach is only by ONE day, that is a breach, and a 44(1) Report in such a case will be upheld as Valid in Law. Which is not the end of the story, since the IAD MUST CONSIDER ANY and ALL REASONS which might weigh in favour of allowing the PR to retain status. That is, "H&C" considerations.

Overall, the smaller the breach and the more well established and settled the PR is in Canada (including right up to the time of the IAD hearing), the better the PR's chances of a lenient decision allowing the PR to keep status.

Other factors play a role, of course, not the least of which are the specific reasons why the PR was abroad so long (contrary to popular opinion here, even self-serving reasons, like staying at a well paying job, can have some positive influence in this assessment, albeit again with some real limitations). But for a small breach during the first five years, if the PR proceeds to establish a life in Canada, and live and remain present in Canada pending the appeal, that will significantly improve the odds of a successful appeal. After all, what IRCC is concerned about is the purpose of the grant of PR status: so that the individual can settle and live PERMANENTLY in Canada, and the PR who proceeds to do just that will ordinarily NOT be penalized for a minor, technical breach. Sure, there remains the does-the-PR-deserve-to-keep-PR-status element. There is NO "deserves" requirement, as such, but obviously it can play a huge role in what IRCC and the IAD decide.
 

Ralma

Newbie
Oct 31, 2018
7
0
Thanks for the detailed information
Could we be arrested in the airport for not fulfilling the residency requirement while a decision on the appeal is still pending?
 

Ralma

Newbie
Oct 31, 2018
7
0
No we have not fulfilled our residency requirement which is 45 days less
Me and my husband are both doctors
May I ask how sure you are ?
I have heard from my lawyer they might try to detain and then he has asked us to ask them to call him but with my pervious experiance in the border they won’t allow you call any one they just don’t care
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
6,682
2,530
Very sure!
Detaining is not arresting you. Once you have established you are a PR, Entry is gauranteed.

You lawyer sounds like he/she is a bit of a tool, creating unnecessary fear and profit for himself.
 

Ralma

Newbie
Oct 31, 2018
7
0
But there are cases reported by people that some people have been arrested Because of immigration status
I am really not after trouble I obey rules and regulations and if it is not my right I will respectful to the decision but I hate being in that situation
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,265
3,028
I agree with @Buletruck.

Failing to meet the PR Residency Obligation is NOT a violation of Canadian immigration law. It is NOT grounds for detaining let alone arresting a PR.

Since you already have an appeal pending, upon presenting proper identification at the PoE there should be no problem entering Canada. Even the worst case scenario for PRs in breach of the PR RO will NOT happen to you. Worst case PoE experience should be NO MORE than brief questioning about your more recent absences, just so the PoE officers can make notes documenting this information.

REMINDER: Worst case scenario at the border, for a PR who presents proper identification and who either presents documentation of PR status (valid or expired PR card; or CoPR; or even correspondence addressed to PR with PR's client number on it) or is otherwise verified to be a PR (which is relatively easy for the border officers to do), is a PR RO examination in Secondary resulting in being issued a 44(1) Report for Inadmissibility on RO compliance grounds and then issued a Departure (Removal) Order . . . which order is NOT enforceable for at least thirty days, and thus the PR WILL NOT BE DETAINED but will be allowed to enter Canada. The PR would then have thirty days to make an appeal. And the PR can then stay pending the appeal.

Which, again, apparently has already happened. And your appeal is pending. Pending the appeal you remain a PR. So, again, there should be no more delay upon your arrival than how long it takes to conduct a brief interview about how long you have been abroad recently.

How this will go in the long run is difficult to forecast. Fact you have been outside Canada pending the appeal will not help. But this is for you to discuss with your lawyer.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
52,969
12,771
This is unrelated to your appeal but not sure if you are aware how difficult it will be to become licensed as a physician in Canada as an IMG. That may be also something you want to consider if you are both doctors. The likelihood of even one of you getting licensed is pretty low.
 

Desperate202

Full Member
Jan 10, 2019
28
0
Hi
I have been a Canadian Pr in 2014 but after landing left Canada and entered again in 2017. We don’t fullfil residency days. Our Pr was removed in the airport only for being 45 days late. We made an appeal and now the case is pending. We had to leave Canada right after the hearing since we missed a number one family member now and it has been two months till today that we are out and still a decision is not made and our Pr is vaild till next sep do you think we could enter safely now or if we enter it would affect the decision ? Is there any record that we have left the country once we left from ground US border?
Can you please let us know which airport that you were reported in?