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Should I apply citizenship now? Please advise, thanks

Kikilala

Star Member
Feb 12, 2016
59
4
I'm a housewife with lots of exit/entry records (about 20-30 times) in the past 5 years, all going back to my home country. Even worse, I need to go back every 2 weeks in the recent 1.5 years. Since I have roughly 1100+ but less than 1200 days physically present in Canada so I'm considering apply for citizenship.

I was talking to some 'professional' today, he advised me to remain my PR status as I have no job but with too many exit/entry record, that will cause a lot of trouble during the process.

I have no rush to get the citizenship actually because I have my husband & son here so I'm going to live in Canada anyways. However I had really bad experience when I renewed my PR card 2 years ago. My application was under 2nd review, so I didn't have a valid PR card and I wasn't able to go back to my home country when my parents had emergency. I can never forget this incident and I don't want this happen again. So I wish to apply for citizenship instead of remain my PR status.

Can I have some advise that whether or not I should apply the citizenship in this case? What kind of troubles will I encounter during the application process?

Thank a lot!
 

btbt

Hero Member
Feb 26, 2018
541
209
Search through the forum for "PPQ" and "RQ". Those are the forms/processes that IRCC tends to use when they want you to prove your presence in Canada (there's a whole thread on the forum describing the different processes and which documents they have asked people to send in). That may give you a bit of an insight into what could happen -- you may be asked to go through one of these (possibly quite invasive) processes.

Obviously, getting citizenship means you would not have to go through the PR card process ever again. The process to get there may be long (sometimes very long) and administratively unpleasant. Whether or not that's worth it is a choice only you can make.

Be aware that, for your citizenship application, you will need to respond to IRCC queries in a timely manner, and rescheduling an interview/test invitation can also cause delays, so if your travels make that impossible it may be wiser not to apply right now.
 

ibry

Hero Member
Jul 25, 2010
660
86
Canada
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
LANDED..........
2011
I'm a housewife with lots of exit/entry records (about 20-30 times) in the past 5 years, all going back to my home country. Even worse, I need to go back every 2 weeks in the recent 1.5 years. Since I have roughly 1100+ but less than 1200 days physically present in Canada so I'm considering apply for citizenship.

I was talking to some 'professional' today, he advised me to remain my PR status as I have no job but with too many exit/entry record, that will cause a lot of trouble during the process.

I have no rush to get the citizenship actually because I have my husband & son here so I'm going to live in Canada anyways. However I had really bad experience when I renewed my PR card 2 years ago. My application was under 2nd review, so I didn't have a valid PR card and I wasn't able to go back to my home country when my parents had emergency. I can never forget this incident and I don't want this happen again. So I wish to apply for citizenship instead of remain my PR status.

Can I have some advise that whether or not I should apply the citizenship in this case? What kind of troubles will I encounter during the application process?

Thank a lot!

You should apply for citizenship if you have complete days and are completely sure you meet all requirements. Even if you get an RQ or show proof. They still have to give you tour citizenship especially if you dont have any criminal record.
 

ZingyDNA

Champion Member
Aug 12, 2013
1,252
185
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......
2111
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-06-2013
AOR Received.
28-08-2013
IELTS Request
Sent with Application
Med's Request
21-02-2014 (principal applicant)
Med's Done....
07-03-2014 (both, upfront for spouse)
Passport Req..
10-04-2014
VISA ISSUED...
22-04-2014
LANDED..........
13-06-2014
I'm a housewife with lots of exit/entry records (about 20-30 times) in the past 5 years, all going back to my home country. Even worse, I need to go back every 2 weeks in the recent 1.5 years. Since I have roughly 1100+ but less than 1200 days physically present in Canada so I'm considering apply for citizenship.

I was talking to some 'professional' today, he advised me to remain my PR status as I have no job but with too many exit/entry record, that will cause a lot of trouble during the process.

I have no rush to get the citizenship actually because I have my husband & son here so I'm going to live in Canada anyways. However I had really bad experience when I renewed my PR card 2 years ago. My application was under 2nd review, so I didn't have a valid PR card and I wasn't able to go back to my home country when my parents had emergency. I can never forget this incident and I don't want this happen again. So I wish to apply for citizenship instead of remain my PR status.

Can I have some advise that whether or not I should apply the citizenship in this case? What kind of troubles will I encounter during the application process?

Thank a lot!
I would say go for it. If you travel this much you'll have a hassle renewing your PR card every 5 years. I'd rather get it done once and for all if I were you. Given your situation you'll need a lot of effort preparing your entry/exit records and proof of residence (bank statements, rental records, health records etc.), as the odds of RQ are high. But I'm pretty sure it'll be worth it.
 

Kikilala

Star Member
Feb 12, 2016
59
4
Thank you all for the advise! I still haven't make the final decision yet, as I've read some of the threads & posts regarding PPQ & RQ, I found that I'll get into trouble when come to this stage.

I'm living in my husband's property, he supports my living; I stay home all the time to take care of my kid whenever I'm here.

So, I don't have rental records, utilities bill, credit card, cell phone number, car, insurance; I don't go to church, nor paticipating in any volunteer work...... I can only have health record, but only with normal check up once a year (I'm not suffering from long term sickness & seldom sick); and bank statements with not so frequent transactions; & perhaps the statements of child care benefit. That's all I have.

I know these are not consider "solid proof" of residency. I read from other forum that there was a guy who had few months of employment gap. He didn't have rental record for that period because he did cash rental. He submitted a letter signed by the pastor from his church & bank statements to proof himself. However the officer from IRCC said those proofs were not solid enough and ends up declined his citizenship application.

Of course I don't know the details of this case but it seems to me that when IRCC is not "happy", I mean red flag from application. Even though the days of physical present is accurate, they can just say there's no proof of residency and then deduct that certain period, make the applicant doesn't have enough days of physical present then application rejected.

What actually IRCC is looking for? 100% accurate exit/entry record and days of physical present? Or the social movement of a person?

Presume I have correct days of physical present (I'm going to apply exit/entry record from my home country and submit together with the application and one from CBSA for reference), but I can't submit what they call "solid proof" when I get RQ or PPQ. Do you guys think I have chance being rejected?

Is it better for me to use a lawyer to prepare my application in this case, so that if anything happen I can look for assistance?
 

meyakanor

Hero Member
Jul 26, 2013
519
109
Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
App. Filed.......
16-02-2012
Doc's Request.
26-02-2013
AOR Received.
21-03-2012
Med's Request
21-03-2013
Passport Req..
16-04-2013
VISA ISSUED...
29-04-2013
LANDED..........
16-05-2013
Keep in mind that, there is no longer residency requirement for citizenship application, only physical presence test.

The requirement used to be that someone needed to live in Canada for 3 out of the past 4 years (which could be rather subjective, and led to situations where one might have fewer than 3 years of physical presence, but could still be granted citizenship if you can prove 3 years of residence; you can live for 3 years in Canada without being physically present in Canada 100 percent of those 3 years), now the requirement is that someone needs to be physically present in Canada for 3 out of the past 5 years.

Residency proof (of which, proof of Canadian employment is the strongest) normally would come into play to support the claimed physical presence.

The most important thing, however, remains the actual number of days you are physically present in Canada rather than any particular claim to residency (in theory, one can stay in hotel during prolonged business trips, and so long there are enough number of days, one satisfies the physical presence requirement).

Since you have a very complicated exit/entry situation, make sure that, for every entry into Canada, you can readily show the corresponding exit (boarding pass, itinerary, flight manifest, etc), so you can readily prove your days in Canada. Do you or your husband have mortgage? You mention that you live in your husband's property, is he still paying for mortgage?

When I applied for my citizenship, during the eligibility period, there was a 3-4 month period where I did not have a job, nor did I go to school (I was basically unemployed), but they never asked me to do PPQ/RQ. It was never a problem (and I didn't even have that large of a buffer either [see my signature]).

You should apply. File your application. If you don't mind paying the fee, really have the number of days (and satisfy all other requirements), never got into any kind of trouble, and answer everything truthfully, it's more likely than not that you will eventually get your citizenship (it may take a bit longer than the normal 12 month time period, but it should not be a problem).
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,282
3,041
I'm living in my husband's property, he supports my living; I stay home all the time to take care of my kid whenever I'm here.
Many, many successful citizenship applicants have had very similar circumstances. Home and child care taker is readily recognized as a common reality for many immigrants. Relationship to owner or lessor of the residence is sufficient to document occupant interest in the address where the applicant reports living.

Note, for example, children's Canadian school records can readily corroborate the children's presence in Canada (assuming the children are in Canada of course), and thus support the parent's declarations as to presence in Canada.

And . . . The vast majority of applicants are NOT subject to any of the non-routine requests for additional information or documents.

Somewhat ironically, the Secondary Review of you PR card application may actually facilitate your citizenship application because IRCC has already scrutinized your residency history.


Of course I don't know the details of this case but it seems to me that when IRCC is not "happy", I mean red flag from application. Even though the days of physical present is accurate, they can just say there's no proof of residency and then deduct that certain period, make the applicant doesn't have enough days of physical present then application rejected.
IRCC is NOT engaged in a GOTCHA game. IRCC is not looking for reasons to deny qualified applicants. Yes, if IRCC perceives a reason-to-question-presence that can dramatically elevate the level of scrutiny and degree of skepticism, BUT this does not happen randomly or haphazardly or otherwise without actual reason. Screening citizenship applicants is FACT-BASED, CRITERIA-DRIVEN.

Red-flags do not pop up out of nowhere.

Qualified PRs who have actually been living and settled and present in Canada, who follow the instructions and accurately complete the application, will only rarely run into issues UNLESS there is indeed something about their case which causes concern or suspicion.

There are plenty who push the limits. Many more who fail to follow the instructions. Many who make more than some minor errors in their application. More than a few who have not kept accurate records of their travel abroad (and thus make significant mistakes in the presence calculator). And more than a few fudging the facts. Thus this forum is rife with tales of woe and stories steeped in problems, and there are plenty of issues for participants like me to discuss in depth.

BUT THAT HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF QUALIFIED APPLICANTS, the vast majority who apply, get AOR, get notice to attend the test and interview, and then the oath; the vast majority who can focus on preparing for the test and watching for notice from IRCC; the vast majority who will NOT BE REQUIRED to respond to any requests for additional information or documents. THE MAJORITY OF QUALIFIED APPLICANTS HAVE LITTLE OR NO REASON TO WORRY.



I'm going to apply exit/entry record from my home country and submit together with the application and one from CBSA for reference
If you have some doubts about the accuracy and completeness of your own records, then yes, obtaining these is a good idea. Remember, however, YOU are the one best source of information about your travel history, since you were the one source in the whole world who was for-sure there each and every time, the one source in the whole world who for-sure can have a complete and accurate record of all border-crossing dates. (Which is why IRCC depends on the applicant to provide this information, and why it becomes so problematic if IRCC perceives a possibility the applicant has NOT provided a complete and accurate accounting of travel dates, the one most reliable source of the information thus shown to NOT be credible.)

However, generally there is little or NOTHING to be gained by submitting a copy of these with the application itself. Including these records, in particular, could be perceived in a way that invites questions rather than foreclosing questions. Including the CBSA record, for example, will signal you have done precisely what IRCC asks you to NOT do: applicants are advised, in the instructions, to "Please do not contact the CBSA to request your history of travel." (It is nonetheless OK to do so, for a prospective applicant who is not sure enough of travel dates and is doing so to verify dates, that is to verify as best such records can recognizing that such records do NOT purport to be complete and are not relied upon to be complete.)

If you need and request these records, home country movement history and CBSA records, that is OK. Better to NOT submit these with the application. Better to keep these. You can carry them with you to the interview. Do not present them unless the questions asked present a suitable opportunity to present them. Keep them to submit if asked for them.


Is it better for me to use a lawyer to prepare my application in this case, so that if anything happen I can look for assistance?
Very few citizenship applicants need the assistance of a lawyer. BUT of course citizenship applicants are entitled to assistance from a legal professional. And some applicants are not as comfortable or competent dealing with bureaucratic forms and procedures as most others. So, if you feel you need a lawyer, YES, obtain the assistance of a lawyer. Or, be prepared to obtain the assistance of a lawyer if later in the process you are issued RQ (which is not likely if you are indeed qualified and report your travel history accurately and otherwise complete the application fully and accurately).

Again, the qualified applicant who can and does provide an almost perfect accounting of travel dates has little or NO reason to worry. If you can get that part down near perfect, and answer all the other items following the instructions, the main thing will be showing up for and passing the test and interview.


CAVEATS:

Foremost, I am no expert. Just offering my best understanding of how this goes based on following residency/presence-case issues for nearly a decade now.

Otherwise, what I describe about NO-CAUSE-FOR-WORRY is, of course, for prospective applicants who do not have some known cause for worry.

There are way, way, way too many variables to attempt enumerating factors which can knock the applicant outside the routine-applicant track, most of which however will not be problematic alone but will increase the risk of problems in some contexts, such as, in particular, if there are multiple such factors.

Some somewhat representative examples:

-- applicant with a spouse who lives or work abroad (especially in conjunction with certain other circumstances tending to raise doubts about the extent to which the applicant actually is well-settled in Canada)
-- applicant who has given birth to children while abroad since becoming a PR and during the eligibility period
-- applicant with pattern of travel suggesting continuing, strong residential ties abroad
-- applicant with dependent children living or predominantly staying abroad
-- applicant's travel history has significant errors or omissions (any omission of a week or more is significant, but this is a relative factor and thus even bigger mistakes have NOT triggered problems for applicants who otherwise have a strong case)

Again, this is just a very, very small sample. Not particularly representative. Prospective applicants who make an effort to objectively assess their own case should fairly easily recognize if there are facts or circumstances in their life which are prone to raising any questions about the extent to which they are fully settled and living their life in Canada.