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RQ after citizenship test

adzees

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I had a citizenship test this morning that i passed but while going over the documents, the immigration officer found that i forgot to mention the physical absence from Canada. I have provided with Residence Questionaire to fill out and send it to local CIC within 45 days.

Not sure what should i do? I am hearing all these stories about long delay and possible refusal of the application
 

arambi

Hero Member
Aug 16, 2014
332
24
Taking into account the missed absence, will you be short on days?
How many days of physical presence do you have?
Please provide full timeline and local office
 

adzees

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I will miss days from the residency requirement for sure.

First came to canada: decemeber 2003
Landed: july 11 2011
Applied for citizenship: august 1, 2013

Local CIC office: Edmonton

In last 4 years preceding my application i was away from Canada for total of 83 days.
 

tachhi

Full Member
Dec 30, 2014
30
0
adzees said:
I will miss days from the residency requirement for sure.

First came to canada: decemeber 2003
Landed: july 11 2011
Applied for citizenship: august 1, 2013

Local CIC office: Edmonton

In last 4 years preceding my application i was away from Canada for total of 83 days.
when you minus the missed date do you still have 1095 days?
 

adzees

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No i will go under. I can't believe that i did this mistake.

I am missing 19 days
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,307
3,068
adzees said:
I had a citizenship test this morning that i passed but while going over the documents, the immigration officer found that i forgot to mention the physical absence from Canada. I have provided with Residence Questionaire to fill out and send it to local CIC within 45 days.

Not sure what should i do? I am hearing all these stories about long delay and possible refusal of the application
adzees said:
I will miss days from the residency requirement for sure.

First came to canada: decemeber 2003
Landed: july 11 2011
Applied for citizenship: august 1, 2013

Local CIC office: Edmonton

In last 4 years preceding my application i was away from Canada for total of 83 days.
You have a problem. It looks like you are short of meeting the 1095 days of actual physical presence test.

But for the failure to declare dates absent, this otherwise appears to be a good case for pursuing it through despite the shortfall, assuming you were also well settled in Canada prior to August 2009. This is because it appears you have a strong case for documenting the centralization of your life in Canada.

But the failure to declare your days absent looms ominously. Of course how ominously depends on the extent of what you failed to declare. For example, if you did not declare any of the 83 days outside Canada, ouch, big ouch. That tips a lot toward a material misrepresentation by omission and if so interpreted by CIC that would constitute a serious problem.

In terms of determining what to do in this situation, there are a number of it-depends factors, but it is important to at the least gather all the relevant information and documentation to submit in response to the RQ, and submit the RQ response on time.

You may want to seriously reconsider withdrawing the application and re-applying, but my sense is that it is still important, first, to submit an appropriate response to the RQ, a response which in particular completely and accurately declares all travel outside Canada during the relevant four years. You want to make a concerted effort to show that you are being truthful, and at least indirectly suggesting that any omission in your application was an oversight or misunderstanding. You want to be on the record for giving complete and accurate information before you withdraw the application.

There is no rush to withdraw the application, even if you decide that is the best course to follow. (I suspect it is, but that is a decision for you to make based on your best judgment.) So there is time to submit the response to the RQ. To set the record straight so-to-say.

Consulting with a lawyer is probably a very good idea.

Otherwise, assuming you have remained in Canada since August 1, 2013 (at least most of the time, but for typical holiday or brief business trips), after responding to the RQ you can withdraw and re-apply. A couple months delay in re-applying will not make a big difference.

Some may suggest withdrawing without responding to RQ.

Others may emphasize that even if you withdraw you will most likely encounter RQ again when you re-apply.

Not all RQs are created equal. The extent of delay encountered will vary considerably and a big factor in this is tied to what kinds of questions are at stake, what the issues are. RQ for a shortfall or for an omission of travel dates in the Residency Calculation, let alone for both, is likely to lead to a longer, much longer, processing timeline and increased risk for referral to a CJ for a hearing, which really delays things. RQ because the applicant has previously applied and withdrawn an application, in contrast, can be fairly perfunctory if in the new application any questions are easily resolved and if, in particular, any problem in the earlier application is resolved . . . hence my suggestion to go ahead and respond to the RQ even if you plan to withdraw, so that at the least the record is clear and your submission is accurate.


Since a qualitative test may still be applied, technically you could push forward with this application.

Odds are not good, though, for an applicant relying on pre-landing credit for time in Canada. This is being eliminated once the amended version of section 5(1) of the Citizenship Act takes effect, reflecting the government's view that time is not a strong enough indicator of permanent ties to Canada. It still counts, technically, for applicants who apply before that amendment takes effect, but succeeding in a shortfall case requires a level of persuasion well above meeting the technicalities -- recognizing, after all, that a shortfall does not meet the technically of having 1095 days of actual presence in Canada during the relevant four years.



The residency calculation itself:

Since you clearly applied relying on credit for time in Canada prior to landing, your statement that you were "away from Canada" for 83 days in the relevant four years, does not clearly indicate the extent of your shortfall. Days away prior to the application date of August 1, 2013 only cost you a half-day's credit (for each day away), while days away after August 1, 2013 actually cost you . . . well that calculation gets a bit complex, but in your situation it would take at least two more days of presence in Canada to make up for a day's absence after August 1, 2011.

It is nonetheless apparent you have a substantial shortfall (well over a month at the very least), given that you applied barely 20 days after the two year anniversary of landing. Thus your total credit for time in Canada, given being away for 83 days, fell well short of the 1095 days of credit for time actually physically present during the relevant four years.

Thus, even without there having been an omission, a failure to declare some travel abroad, the odds of succeeding on this application would be significantly diminished.


Conclusion:

Completely and accurately, responsively, submit the RQ.

See a lawyer, at least for a consultation.

Probably (your decision ultimately) withdraw and re-apply now that you have sell exceeded the 1095 days of actual presence threshold.
 

scylla

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adzees said:
No i will go under. I can't believe that i did this mistake.

I am missing 19 days
If you don't have at least 1095 days, withdraw your application and resubmit it once you do. In my opinion there is absolutely no point in going through the RQ process if you don't have enough days. It will all end with a refusal since you don't qualify to apply.
 

arambi

Hero Member
Aug 16, 2014
332
24
"Conclusion:

Completely and accurately, responsively, submit the RQ. - YES, Agree 100%... If I may add... be honest, no benifit to play game at this point

See a lawyer, at least for a consultation. - No Don't waste time and Money, Lawyer cannot do anything when your are short on so many days

Probably (your decision ultimately) withdraw and re-apply now that you have well exceeded the 1095 days of actual presence threshold. Yes, DEFINITIVELY Re-apply... quick, before the 4/6 rule comes into play. Pput in a second application and send a letter explaining the situation and requesting them to process this second new application and to either (1) put the previous first application on hold until the outcomes of the second application is known, or (2) if they cannot pur the previous first application on hold, to withdraw it altogether (you will have to pay new set of fees $630 for the second application).

Please read below link yourself and make the decision at your own risks.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/admin/general/multiple.asp

11-Jul-11 01-Aug-13 752 Max PR days
365 Pre-PR
1117
-83 Absences
1034 Actual Physical Presence
1095 Required days
-61 Short days


"
 

adzees

Hero Member
Sep 2, 2010
694
32
Edmonton, AB
App. Filed.......
Oct 2011
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Med's Done....
August 2016
dpenabill said:
You have a problem. It looks like you are short of meeting the 1095 days of actual physical presence test.

But for the failure to declare dates absent, this otherwise appears to be a good case for pursuing it through despite the shortfall, assuming you were also well settled in Canada prior to August 2009. This is because it appears you have a strong case for documenting the centralization of your life in Canada.

But the failure to declare your days absent looms ominously. Of course how ominously depends on the extent of what you failed to declare. For example, if you did not declare any of the 83 days outside Canada, ouch, big ouch. That tips a lot toward a material misrepresentation by omission and if so interpreted by CIC that would constitute a serious problem.

In terms of determining what to do in this situation, there are a number of it-depends factors, but it is important to at the least gather all the relevant information and documentation to submit in response to the RQ, and submit the RQ response on time.

You may want to seriously reconsider withdrawing the application and re-applying, but my sense is that it is still important, first, to submit an appropriate response to the RQ, a response which in particular completely and accurately declares all travel outside Canada during the relevant four years. You want to make a concerted effort to show that you are being truthful, and at least indirectly suggesting that any omission in your application was an oversight or misunderstanding. You want to be on the record for giving complete and accurate information before you withdraw the application.

There is no rush to withdraw the application, even if you decide that is the best course to follow. (I suspect it is, but that is a decision for you to make based on your best judgment.) So there is time to submit the response to the RQ. To set the record straight so-to-say.

Consulting with a lawyer is probably a very good idea.

Otherwise, assuming you have remained in Canada since August 1, 2013 (at least most of the time, but for typical holiday or brief business trips), after responding to the RQ you can withdraw and re-apply. A couple months delay in re-applying will not make a big difference.

Some may suggest withdrawing without responding to RQ.

Others may emphasize that even if you withdraw you will most likely encounter RQ again when you re-apply.

Not all RQs are created equal. The extent of delay encountered will vary considerably and a big factor in this is tied to what kinds of questions are at stake, what the issues are. RQ for a shortfall or for an omission of travel dates in the Residency Calculation, let alone for both, is likely to lead to a longer, much longer, processing timeline and increased risk for referral to a CJ for a hearing, which really delays things. RQ because the applicant has previously applied and withdrawn an application, in contrast, can be fairly perfunctory if in the new application any questions are easily resolved and if, in particular, any problem in the earlier application is resolved . . . hence my suggestion to go ahead and respond to the RQ even if you plan to withdraw, so that at the least the record is clear and your submission is accurate.


Since a qualitative test may still be applied, technically you could push forward with this application.

Odds are not good, though, for an applicant relying on pre-landing credit for time in Canada. This is being eliminated once the amended version of section 5(1) of the Citizenship Act takes effect, reflecting the government's view that time is not a strong enough indicator of permanent ties to Canada. It still counts, technically, for applicants who apply before that amendment takes effect, but succeeding in a shortfall case requires a level of persuasion well above meeting the technicalities -- recognizing, after all, that a shortfall does not meet the technically of having 1095 days of actual presence in Canada during the relevant four years.



The residency calculation itself:

Since you clearly applied relying on credit for time in Canada prior to landing, your statement that you were "away from Canada" for 83 days in the relevant four years, does not clearly indicate the extent of your shortfall. Days away prior to the application date of August 1, 2013 only cost you a half-day's credit (for each day away), while days away after August 1, 2013 actually cost you . . . well that calculation gets a bit complex, but in your situation it would take at least two more days of presence in Canada to make up for a day's absence after August 1, 2011.

It is nonetheless apparent you have a substantial shortfall (well over a month at the very least), given that you applied barely 20 days after the two year anniversary of landing. Thus your total credit for time in Canada, given being away for 83 days, fell well short of the 1095 days of credit for time actually physically present during the relevant four years.

Thus, even without there having been an omission, a failure to declare some travel abroad, the odds of succeeding on this application would be significantly diminished.


Conclusion:

Completely and accurately, responsively, submit the RQ.

See a lawyer, at least for a consultation.

Probably (your decision ultimately) withdraw and re-apply now that you have sell exceeded the 1095 days of actual presence threshold.
Thank you for the response. Sorry i applied on September 5/2011. I did declare all the days inwas absent after getting the immigration. There are total number of 74 days that i forgot to declare in residency calculator. This was in september, october and nov 2009. I did mention the time away in my actual application though. It was just the residency calculator that i screwed up on.
 

adzees

Hero Member
Sep 2, 2010
694
32
Edmonton, AB
App. Filed.......
Oct 2011
Doc's Request.
July 2015
Nomination.....
October 2015
AOR Received.
February 2016
File Transfer...
July 2016
Med's Request
July 2016
Med's Done....
August 2016
scylla said:
If you don't have at least 1095 days, withdraw your application and resubmit it once you do. In my opinion there is absolutely no point in going through the RQ process if you don't have enough days. It will all end with a refusal since you don't qualify to apply.
Yes i forgot to include one of the trip abroad in the residency calculator and resukted in applying earlier than i supposed to. I did mention all time properly in the actual application though.
 

chau01

Star Member
May 29, 2006
190
2
adzees said:
I had a citizenship test this morning that i passed but while going over the documents, the immigration officer found that i forgot to mention the physical absence from Canada. I have provided with Residence Questionaire to fill out and send it to local CIC within 45 days.

Not sure what should i do? I am hearing all these stories about long delay and possible refusal of the application
Hi adzees, could you upload the RQ, i believe you got the latest RQ FORM, which ic 07-2014. or you could email me and i will upload.
 

mimi23

Star Member
Aug 3, 2010
191
12
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adzees said:
Yes i forgot to include one of the trip abroad in the residency calculator and resukted in applying earlier than i supposed to. I did mention all time properly in the actual application though.
Hello Adzees, i remember you we use to be together in the same forum but got pr before you though, sorry to hear about that
but you didn't lie is just you forgot to put in the stupid calculator , is it possible to withdraw? look will be a battle with CIC especially with new law , ask them if you can withdraw and send new application right away, wish you all the best
 

adzees

Hero Member
Sep 2, 2010
694
32
Edmonton, AB
App. Filed.......
Oct 2011
Doc's Request.
July 2015
Nomination.....
October 2015
AOR Received.
February 2016
File Transfer...
July 2016
Med's Request
July 2016
Med's Done....
August 2016
arambi said:
"Conclusion:

Completely and accurately, responsively, submit the RQ. - YES, Agree 100%... If I may add... be honest, no benifit to play game at this point

See a lawyer, at least for a consultation. - No Don't waste time and Money, Lawyer cannot do anything when your are short on so many days

Probably (your decision ultimately) withdraw and re-apply now that you have well exceeded the 1095 days of actual presence threshold. Yes, DEFINITIVELY Re-apply... quick, before the 4/6 rule comes into play. Pput in a second application and send a letter explaining the situation and requesting them to process this second new application and to either (1) put the previous first application on hold until the outcomes of the second application is known, or (2) if they cannot pur the previous first application on hold, to withdraw it altogether (you will have to pay new set of fees $630 for the second application).

Please read below link yourself and make the decision at your own risks.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/cit/admin/general/multiple.asp

11-Jul-11 01-Aug-13 752 Max PR days
365 Pre-PR
1117
-83 Absences
1034 Actual Physical Presence
1095 Required days
-61 Short days


"
Thank you but i was only away for 9 days from Canada after getting the PR. I also applied for Citizenship on Sept 5/2013 and not August 1/2013. There were 74 days in 2009 that i was away before getting PR (i.e 36 days). I forgot to include these days of absence in the residency calculator but i did put all the information on the actual application form.
 

rayman_m

Hero Member
Feb 14, 2014
594
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Shortcut solution: Just write a letter to CIC to withdraw your application due to your residency calculation mistake and you will reapply with proper calculation.

Impact and outcome: Withdrawing and reapplying will cost your few hundred $ which is worthy. You will save many months perhaps years with new application. Recent trend is you will receive new test schedule from applying is probably within 5 to 6 month. Most likely you will be citizen by 2015.

Many in this forum may say that you may get RQ again. But that's not something automatic unless there is a similar error or other hazard issues related to your file such as suspicious travel, residence ties in Canada seems not credible to the officer etc. etc..