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Renounce PR and then Visitor Visa after Spouse Sponsorship

salkab

Full Member
Apr 9, 2015
29
1
Hi,

I am not meeting my PR obligation. My PR status will expiry in Jun 2020. Wife and kids are PR and will complete their requirement of RO by Jun 2020. In order for me to visit smoothly, if I renounce my PR and apply for visitor visa, how difficult it can be?

Also, after 4 years when my wife and kids become citizen, if they sponsor me for PR, how difficult it will be at that time.

I want to move to Canada for good but not now, only after 4 years. Please guide me, what is the best option. I am PR since 2015 and will not meet RO by June 2020.
 

steaky

VIP Member
Nov 11, 2008
14,336
1,637
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
No one has a crystal ball to know what the future holds. Only you know how difficult it will be.

Btw, why moving to Canada in 4 years?
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
53,022
12,784
Hi,

I am not meeting my PR obligation. My PR status will expiry in Jun 2020. Wife and kids are PR and will complete their requirement of RO by Jun 2020. In order for me to visit smoothly, if I renounce my PR and apply for visitor visa, how difficult it can be?

Also, after 4 years when my wife and kids become citizen, if they sponsor me for PR, how difficult it will be at that time.

I want to move to Canada for good but not now, only after 4 years. Please guide me, what is the best option. I am PR since 2015 and will not meet RO by June 2020.
If you PR you are guaranteed to enter Canada. There are no guarantees you will get a TRV so why would you take the chance. You should not renounce PR until necessary.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,294
3,059
I am not meeting my PR obligation. My PR status will expiry in Jun 2020.
This situation has been addressed in some length, and more or less adequately, in other topics. See, for example, other posts in the topic where the following was posted (a post which, by the way, mostly covers the options and is about as comprehensive as a short answer could be):

Chances are high that once you do not meet the residency obligation, you may be reported when you enter Canada. It’s unlikely you would be able to renew your card as well. You may be better off to renounce your PR card and apply for a TRV until such time as you are prepared to settle in Canada permenently. Your wife would be able to sponsor you for your PR.
And similarly in yet another topic (albeit apparently in response to query posed by the spouse in Canada):

PR cards expire PR status never expires and can only be renounced or revoked.
. . .
Be aware that the residency obligation for initial 5 years starts from the day you land and not the date the PR card was issued.
Thus, for emphasis, and which I more fully address below:

PR status does NOT expire.

Like passports have expiration dates, your PR Card has an expiration date.

Reminder: PR status is subject to a Residency Obligation AND the PR card is NOT relevant in assessing a PR's compliance with the RO.

In any event, I strongly urge you to read the posts in response to the queries which, it appears, were posed by your spouse.

Hi,

I am not meeting my PR obligation. My PR status will expiry in Jun 2020. Wife and kids are PR and will complete their requirement of RO by Jun 2020. In order for me to visit smoothly, if I renounce my PR and apply for visitor visa, how difficult it can be?

Also, after 4 years when my wife and kids become citizen, if they sponsor me for PR, how difficult it will be at that time.

I want to move to Canada for good but not now, only after 4 years. Please guide me, what is the best option. I am PR since 2015 and will not meet RO by June 2020.
Regarding: "Please guide me, what is the best option."

This is NOT an appropriate venue for obtaining personal advice. Information, yes. Including information as to what the possible options might be. But these matters involve very personal decisions depending on individual factors and individual priorities, so even if someone here is an expert (I most definitely am NOT an expert) otherwise qualified to offer personal advice, again this is NOT an appropriate venue for that.

To understand your options, however, it is important to understand the rules governing PRs.

Thus, at the risk of being overly redundant, regarding: "My PR status will expiry in Jun 2020."

Again: PR status does NOT expire.

Like passports have expiration dates, your PR Card has an expiration date.

Reminder: The PR card is NOT relevant in assessing a PR's compliance with the RO.

Moreover, it is NOT possible to "complete" the RO. It is an ongoing, continuous obligation. As of any given day a PR either is or is not in compliance.

Thus, UNLIKE citizenship, however, PR status can be lost or terminated if a PR fails to meet the PR's Residency Obligation. MOREOVER, and importantly, a PR in breach of the PR RO is at risk for proceedings to terminate PR status EVEN if the PR has a valid PR card.

Until the third year anniversary of the date of landing a PR is for-sure in compliance with the PR RO, since until that day it is still possible to spend 730 or more days in Canada, before the fifth year anniversary, no matter how much the PR has been absent UP TO THAT DAY, that is, up to the third year anniversary.

Prior to the fifth year anniversary of the date the PR landed, a PR is in compliance with the RO as long as the PR has not been outside Canada for 1095 or more days (technically, possibly up to 1097 days depending on extra day in leap years) since the date of landing. The rule is more often stated in terms of days present; thus, between the third year anniversary of the day of landing and fifth year anniversary, compliance with the PR RO is determined by ADDING together the number of days present in Canada plus the number of days left until the fifth year anniversary, and that total must be at least 730. In effect, however, what this practically means is that during the first five years a PR is in compliance as long as he or she is NOT absent for 1095 or more days.

As of the fifth year anniversary, compliance with the RO is ALWAYS calculated by looking to the past. The previous five years to be precise. The RO is to be in Canada at least 730 days within those five years.


Thus, for example, if a PR landed and became a PR April 23, 2015:

Even if the PR left Canada later that day, April 23, 2015, the PR is for-sure in compliance until at least April 23, 2018.

After April 23, 2018, compliance depends on how many days have so far been spent IN Canada plus how many days are left on the calendar until April 23, 2020. But the practical way to look at this is to count how many days have been outside Canada since April 23, 2015, and so long as that number is LESS than 1095 the PR is in compliance.

As of April 23, 2020 there are NO more days left on the calendar until that date. So, as of that day, compliance depends entirely on how many days were days present in Canada since April 23, 2015, and that number needs to be at least 730 days.

NOTE: if the PR landed April 23, 2015 and immediately (or soon) left, and did not actually return to Canada until more than three years later, in say June 2018, the PR is in breach of the PR RO. And will remain in breach of the PR RO until at least June 2020. As long as, until June 2020, such a PR remains in Canada and makes NO applications to IRCC, there is little chance (NO practical prospect) of a problem; that is, the fact the PR is in breach of the RO will NOT be a problem as long as there are no transactions with IRCC or CBSA. Once the PR has been in Canada for 730 plus days, not counting any days back in 2015, the breach is cured and the PR can more or less safely travel abroad again and sponsor a family member (as long as other eligibility requirements are met).

There is a reason WHY I go into such depth about the RO above rather than directly answering your queries first. Understanding the RO is absolutely critical in ascertaining what the options are and in understanding them in the context of your particular situation.

As has been suggested by others, in other topics, and now again by @canuck78 above, there is NO reason to surrender PR status unless and until you are actually subject to proceedings to terminate your status. Until then, you can use your valid PR card to travel to Canada, and be entitled to enter Canada. Since you are already in breach of the PR RO, you are at risk of being reported and losing status anytime you arrive at a PoE. But there is no reason to surrender PR unless and until that happens . . . and even then, DEPENDING on the particular situation at that time, one option is to APPEAL rather than surrender status.

A big part of the reason for hanging on to PR status as long as you can is that, as @steaky and @canuck78 observed: "No one has a crystal ball to know what the future holds."

And, while only you know your facts well enough to have a relative idea about what will influence how difficult it might be to obtain a TRV and later be sponsored for PR again, forecasting how it will go is very difficult. In contrast, as long as you have PR status you can come to Canada and enter Canada.

Beyond that, for former PRs who have not otherwise violated the immigration rules (to breach the PR RO is NOT a violation of the rules; it is simply a failure to meet an obligation necessary to keep status), most indications suggest that Canada will grant visitor status. So obtaining a TRV after you lose or surrender PR status should not be too much a problem BUT that is, of course, dependent on otherwise meeting the eligibility requirements for a visa. Including no overstays. Including having sufficient ties in home country to indicate the likelihood of leaving Canada timely. And so on.

And, similarly for sponsorship: of course the spouse must meet the eligibility requirements, including not being on welfare. But there are no minimum income requirements. No medical restrictions. (All of which is subject to change of course . . . the law can always be changed.) And your relationship must continue to qualify. But if the sponsoring spouse is qualified to sponsor and the sponsored spouse is not inadmissible (no criminal charges for example), the spousal sponsored PR application is as secure an option there is available.

Obviously, both of these are very dependent on FUTURE facts and circumstances. There are contingencies. Including the possibility of changes in the law. Including potential unexpected death or incapacity of the spouse in Canada.