Refused, Re-apply or Appeal?

[tuyen]

Hi


Under the new regulations the poster at age 51 would get 0 points. http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2012/2012-08-18/html/reg2-eng.html

I got the points information right from CIC's web site, so it looks like they didn't update it yet.

 

[scylla]

I got the points information right from CIC's web site, so it looks like they didn't update it yet.

FSW is closed to applications and has been for some time now (this is the stream for those without job offers in Canada). CIC will start accepting applications again in May and that's when the new rules will kick in. There are several changes in the new vs. old including different points for age, language test results and adaptation points.

 

[computergeek]

Hello,

My case for a conjugal relationship has been refused recently. We are planning to get married in 3 months. Would you consider reapplying or appeal to be a quicker and better process? I live in Toronto, and our VO is Ankara. Thanks.

The Toronto IAD office is known to have very long appeal times - I've read cases of 2.5 years (30 months) to a full hearing. Ankara posts a 16 month time for 80% of applications, but you have mitigating and aggravating issues here:

- Mitigating would be the fact your partner (soon to be spouse) has already been at least partially examined. That does make the second application faster.
- Aggravating would be the fact your previous application has been refused. That means a senior officer will need to process your application (because of the prior refusal) but given the situation I suspect you will be successful with a spousal application - after all, you've basically done what the VO requested that you do.

So, the option is to wait a couple of years for an IAD hearing (and the IAD will consider your change of circumstances if you have been married in the interim, so you will likely be looking at a succesful appeal - at which point you are back in the 16 month queue.

Thus, my suggestion would be to simply re-apply.

 

[MidDawn]

Hello Everyone,

I need your help and advices,please...

I am from the Philippines,my partner and i are been together for 4 years now,getting 5 years as met each other 2008. He visited me twice, first visit 2009 and second visit 2011.During his second visit we went to Vietnam and Malaysia.

We applied under Family Class Conjugal Partner- Same sex partner..our application was received November 2011 and last November 6, 2012 we got a refusal letter saying that the VO was not satisfied that we are in conjugal relationship, the VO thought that he is satisfied that there appears to be a relationship between me and my partner/sponsor but our relationship appears to be that of boyfriends and does not appear to be marriage-like. That the documentation we have provided do not show a committed,interdependent relationship.Upon the application we submitted Western Union receipt as proof of his remittances,his plane tickets...bunch of emails..photos..letters from friends,family and relatives proving that we are in a conjugal relationship..

Around June 2012 we got a letter from Canadian Embassy in Manila, Philippines that they need additional documentations that will support our application. My partner provided them his Last Will, Insurance naming me as his beneficiary, joint credit account which we got all from Canada...but unfortunately last November 6, 2012 we got refused and it was said that our efforts to combine our affairs by providing those documents like the Will etc. do not appear to be a prior established co-mingling of financial affairs,that's basically the reason of their refusal.

We did apply for an appeal and we submitted it to IAD in Toronto..i have this question and i hope i can get your opinion on this...

If one loses the appeal,can he reapply and start the application process over from the beginning?If not, would it make more sense to drop the appeal and restart the process from the beginning while providing the proper documentation and evidence that was lacking in the first attempt?

Your reply is much appreciated....

 

[computergeek]

Hello Everyone,

I need your help and advices,please...

I am from the Philippines,my partner and i are been together for 4 years now,getting 5 years as met each other 2008. He visited me twice, first visit 2009 and second visit 2011.During his second visit we went to Vietnam and Malaysia.

We applied under Family Class Conjugal Partner- Same sex partner..our application was received November 2011 and last November 6, 2012 we got a refusal letter saying that the VO was not satisfied that we are in conjugal relationship, the VO thought that he is satisfied that there appears to be a relationship between me and my partner/sponsor but our relationship appears to be that of boyfriends and does not appear to be marriage-like. That the documentation we have provided do not show a committed,interdependent relationship.Upon the application we submitted Western Union receipt as proof of his remittances,his plane tickets...bunch of emails..photos..letters from friends,family and relatives proving that we are in a conjugal relationship..

Around June 2012 we got a letter from Canadian Embassy in Manila, Philippines that they need additional documentations that will support our application. My partner provided them his Last Will, Insurance naming me as his beneficiary, joint credit account which we got all from Canada...but unfortunately last November 6, 2012 we got refused and it was said that our efforts to combine our affairs by providing those documents like the Will etc. do not appear to be a prior established co-mingling of financial affairs,that's basically the reason of their refusal.

We did apply for an appeal and we submitted it to IAD in Toronto..i have this question and i hope i can get your opinion on this...

If one loses the appeal,can he reapply and start the application process over from the beginning?If not, would it make more sense to drop the appeal and restart the process from the beginning while providing the proper documentation and evidence that was lacking in the first attempt?

Your reply is much appreciated....

I really hope you have a good attorney. If not, PM me and I can point you at an attorney that I know in Toronto who does an excellent job of handling same sex immigration cases, including IAD and judicial review applications.

First, you do realize that appeal times in Toronto are something like 2-2.5 years. You can reapply, but the first thing a new VO is going to ask is "what's changed since last time" and may very likely reach the same conclusion.

I'm assuming you tried to obtain a TRV for your partner to come to Canada. You might also consider trying for both of you to travel to a country where same-sex marriage is legal. For example, if you can travel to Mexico City, same sex marriage is legal there and their barriers to obtaining a visitor visa are substantially lower than Canada or the US - plus, saying you are going to get married to someone else from outside Mexico would seem to make you a low risk to overstay.

Also, have you ordered a copy of your electronic notes yet? If not, I would do so - and I would recommend you order a physical copy of your file because it's been refused. It can be interesting to see the notes they make on the physical documents.

Good luck!

 

[Steph C]

I'm assuming you tried to obtain a TRV for your partner to come to Canada. You might also consider trying for both of you to travel to a country where same-sex marriage is legal. For example, if you can travel to Mexico City, same sex marriage is legal there and their barriers to obtaining a visitor visa are substantially lower than Canada or the US - plus, saying you are going to get married to someone else from outside Mexico would seem to make you a low risk to overstay.

In another thread recently, we discussed the countries that Filipinos can travel to visa-exempt. Of those few countries , Brazil is one that allows same sex marriage in some states. It's probably an expensive ticket, but at least it's a small option. On a personal note, maybe it's because you were only able to visit each other 2 times in the past 5 years. I know it's not easy so good luck!

Maybe another option is try to get him a visitor's visa to the US and get married in Washington State.. or go back to the Philippines for a year and live common law.

 

[MidDawn]

I really hope you have a good attorney. If not, PM me and I can point you at an attorney that I know in Toronto who does an excellent job of handling same sex immigration cases, including IAD and judicial review applications.

First, you do realize that appeal times in Toronto are something like 2-2.5 years. You can reapply, but the first thing a new VO is going to ask is "what's changed since last time" and may very likely reach the same conclusion.

I'm assuming you tried to obtain a TRV for your partner to come to Canada. You might also consider trying for both of you to travel to a country where same-sex marriage is legal. For example, if you can travel to Mexico City, same sex marriage is legal there and their barriers to obtaining a visitor visa are substantially lower than Canada or the US - plus, saying you are going to get married to someone else from outside Mexico would seem to make you a low risk to overstay.

Also, have you ordered a copy of your electronic notes yet? If not, I would do so - and I would recommend you order a physical copy of your file because it's been refused. It can be interesting to see the notes they make on the physical documents.

Good luck!

Hello Computergeek,

Thanks for your reply,i truly appreciate it. We have a legal representative and he is Atty. Battista from Toronto, he has been our legal representative since from the beginning of our application and now that we got refused he told my partner to proceed with the appeal and my partner did file the appeal last November 2012.

As what you have mentioned,appeal case in Toronto will take 2-2.5 years to get a hearing date unless the case will go to ADR which is much quicker.I have a concern and i hope you can give your opinion about this..

My partner and i were thinking of dropping the appeal case and he will going to come here in the Philippines and we will do things that would establish our conjugal partnership like opening a joint bank account which we believe,we lack such in our first attempt that reached to refusal. Would it make more sense if we will go to that route? Or would it be much wiser to just continue the appeal?

Thank you and God bless us all.

 

[MidDawn]

I really hope you have a good attorney. If not, PM me and I can point you at an attorney that I know in Toronto who does an excellent job of handling same sex immigration cases, including IAD and judicial review applications.

First, you do realize that appeal times in Toronto are something like 2-2.5 years. You can reapply, but the first thing a new VO is going to ask is "what's changed since last time" and may very likely reach the same conclusion.

I'm assuming you tried to obtain a TRV for your partner to come to Canada. You might also consider trying for both of you to travel to a country where same-sex marriage is legal. For example, if you can travel to Mexico City, same sex marriage is legal there and their barriers to obtaining a visitor visa are substantially lower than Canada or the US - plus, saying you are going to get married to someone else from outside Mexico would seem to make you a low risk to overstay.

Also, have you ordered a copy of your electronic notes yet? If not, I would do so - and I would recommend you order a physical copy of your file because it's been refused. It can be interesting to see the notes they make on the physical documents.

Good luck!

Hello again Computergeek,

With the circumstance of my case,could we have a good chance to win the appeal?your opinion is highly appreciated. Thanks...

 

[Steph C]

Hello Computergeek,

Thanks for your reply,i truly appreciate it. We have a legal representative and he is Atty. Battista from Toronto, he has been our legal representative since from the beginning of our application and now that we got refused he told my partner to proceed with the appeal and my partner did file the appeal last November 2012.

As what you have mentioned,appeal case in Toronto will take 2-2.5 years to get a hearing date unless the case will go to ADR which is much quicker.I have a concern and i hope you can give your opinion about this..

My partner and i were thinking of dropping the appeal case and he will going to come here in the Philippines and we will do things that would establish our conjugal partnership like opening a joint bank account which we believe,we lack such in our first attempt that reached to refusal. Would it make more sense if we will go to that route? Or would it be much wiser to just continue the appeal?

Thank you and God bless us all.

You need more then just a joint bank account, you need a significant change in the way things are. Personally, I think he should apply for a leave from his job stating family reasons, and go to the Philippines and stay with you to be common law until the appeal. Then when it comes time for the appeal you will have a significant change to show them in your relationship. I think the reason you were denied is that you only visited each other twice. In addition to getting joint bank accounts and other things, maybe you can get a pastor to perform a symbolic marriage. Like this guy: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/filipino-people-are-ready-same-sex-marriage-says-gay-pastor211112

 

[MidDawn]

You need more then just a joint bank account, you need a significant change in the way things are. Personally, I think he should apply for a leave from his job stating family reasons, and go to the Philippines and stay with you to be common law until the appeal. Then when it comes time for the appeal you will have a significant change to show them in your relationship. I think the reason you were denied is that you only visited each other twice. In addition to getting joint bank accounts and other things, maybe you can get a pastor to perform a symbolic marriage. Like this guy: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/filipino-people-are-ready-same-sex-marriage-says-gay-pastor211112

Hello Steph C,

Thanks for your reply,the problem with my partner is that he can't be away in Canada for long period of time because of his job and big factor to it is his parents who are both in their 80's,he took care of his parents and they are living with him.and actually Steph, my partner lives on an average lifestyle,as much as possible he tends to be frugal with the finances on my relocation.the reason of our refusal was "all the efforts we made to combine our affairs to appear as marriage-like was not met because the VO believes that the documentations we have submitted like the Will,insurance which we acquired within the course of application do not appear to be a prior established co-mingling of financial affairs.Should have those documentations ready before submitting the application,we might get approved.I am really confused Steph...i really dont know what to think...

Should we continue the appeal? please enlighten me Steph...thank you so much kababayan,i am from Davao region. Taga saan ka po?

 

[computergeek]

You need more then just a joint bank account, you need a significant change in the way things are. Personally, I think he should apply for a leave from his job stating family reasons, and go to the Philippines and stay with you to be common law until the appeal. Then when it comes time for the appeal you will have a significant change to show them in your relationship. I think the reason you were denied is that you only visited each other twice. In addition to getting joint bank accounts and other things, maybe you can get a pastor to perform a symbolic marriage. Like this guy: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/filipino-people-are-ready-same-sex-marriage-says-gay-pastor211112

I communicated with a Filipino same sex couple last year who had lived together and had gone so far as to get a "certificate of holy union" and were refused common-law status - Manila refused to acknowledge their relationship and removed the same-sex partner from the (FSW) application. Based upon several cases I've read about there does seem to be some sort of bias against same-sex couples in the Manila VO. Admittedly, I just have anecdotal evidence, but it is indeed troubling.

I mention that because the symbolic marriage thing didn't work for a couple living together, so while it sounds promising on the surface, it is actually more problematic than it should be.

 

[computergeek]

With the circumstance of my case,could we have a good chance to win the appeal?your opinion is highly appreciated. Thanks...

To be honest, I don't know enough about the details of your case to give you a fair assessment - doing so would require reviewing your entire file as well as the arguments presented to the IAD. If your attorney thinks you have a good case, he's probably right - he has a good track record.

 

[MidDawn]

To be honest, I don't know enough about the details of your case to give you a fair assessment - doing so would require reviewing your entire file as well as the arguments presented to the IAD. If your attorney thinks you have a good case, he's probably right - he has a good track record.

Thanks for the reply Computergeek, me and my partner are deeply troubled with our situation.Your replies made me feel better,it seems like you knew Atty. Battista?

But in your own opinion Computergeek,should i drop the appeal? or continue the continue the appeal? which is which? im sorry for my asking? im getting paranoid maybe...

 

[computergeek]

Thanks for the reply Computergeek, me and my partner are deeply troubled with our situation.Your replies made me feel better,it seems like you knew Atty. Battista?

But in your own opinion Computergeek,should i drop the appeal? or continue the continue the appeal? which is which? im sorry for my asking? im getting paranoid maybe...

Only you can choose if you wish to drop the appeal. Do you want to be together with your partner in Canada?

If your circumstances change (e.g., you get married) then you should re-evaluate that with the advice of your attorney.

 

[canadianwoman]

My case for a conjugal relationship has been refused recently. We are planning to get married in 3 months. Would you consider reapplying or appeal to be a quicker and better process? I live in Toronto, and our VO is Ankara. Thanks.

I think you would win an appeal, but the problem is that appeals in Toronto can take 2 years or more to be heard. If you do choose to go ahead with an appeal, send in the proof you have married to the Immigration Appeal Board and the Canada Border Services Agency that are handling your appeal. They may decide to then give you an ADR, which is a lot faster.

It would be faster to just get married and reapply. I agree with an above poster that the vo is then going to wonder why you didn't just get married in the first place, so explain why you felt you could not get married earlier.