Refugee status cessation and PRs applying for citizenship

[armoured]

No there is absolutely no fear of her citizenship being challenged no matter even if she ravels to the same country against which she or her parents made a refugee claim. The simple reason is that once you become Canadian citizen, you are traveling under the protection of the Canadian govt.

Very important to note on "protection of Canadian govt" - if a refugee travels to their country of origin and that country considers that person to still be a citizen, Canada's ability to 'provide protection' might be null. There is little clarity on this in the relevant international conventions - but for the most part, Canada has no rights to do much of anything (except insofar as the other government is willing to cooperate).

And also - many countries may require citizens to enter under passport or other doc of that country (and doing otherwise might in itself be a violation of law).

Up to the individual to decide what to risk vis a vis a country they are refugees from but Canadian government protection should not be relied upon.

 

[Toronto1971]

Thanks dpenabill, I would use all the advise and information I can get. I did write my citizenship test in Feb and got CIT 052 form in March which I did return, now I am waiting to hear back. My concern is that this could be a deliberate attempt to make my citizenship application non-routine hereby buying CIC time to bring a case of cessation against me while not technically putting my application on hold.

I noticed that most of the cessation cases are in the Vancouver/east coast area and not many here in the GTA (Toronto).

If i had a reason to prove that my that acts were not intentional, voluntary, and actually resulted in obtaining protection from my home country then I presume I may stand a chance considering I never went back. I guess this is why I need to lawyer up asap before the CIC makes a move on my PR


In as much as it is in the UNHCR guideline , I want believe it is up to individual countries as to how this guideline is applied.

I guess the previous government decided to flex their powers by extending this guideline to affect a PR holder when clearly that individually has transitioned from protected person status to PR.

This law could lead to witch hunting, some officers will have a conscience while some hard line anti immigration officer will want to push this till the end , just to have that satisfaction that an "immigrant" got kicked out.

In as much as I never traveled back to my home country , I want to lawyer up and be prepared for the worse case. If anyone knows a good lawyer in the GTA that is familiar with cessation please PM me. Not a lot of lawyers are even familiar that this law exist for PR holders unless they did infact handled a cessation case.

This whole CIC process is tortuous ,discriminatory and mentally draining .

did you became a canadian citizen ? please answer what happened with you after ?

 

[Toronto1971]

Thanks for your time and comments. Appreciated

Why I didn't get a lawyer before is because I got the letter from CBSA just last week.

You have rightly pointed out the fine distinction..

My concern is that although CBSA have asked for cessation on 1 a and b....but CBSA doesn't have any information about my original claim. CBSA asked Montreal IRB office for my case documents to which they got a reply that the case of 2001 is so old that they have destroyed all the such documents according to the policy.
So my plea is that CBSA just picked up my dates from the citizenship application and made the case. They didn't even bother to interview me.
So CBSAs contention, though not incorrect in essence, is technically erroneous as my case falls under 1 e.
That is the line of defense I intend to take.
Thanks

did you have stamps in the passport from your country?
did you applied for home country renew passport ?
what was wrong in your application?

 

[Toronto1971]

Just to be clear, you really need a lawyer for this.

Just obtaining the country's passport is not merely evidence of reavailment, it creates a PRESUMPTION of reavailment.

You might want to consider the possibility that a defense based on 108(1)(e) might actually hurt your case. That could be interpreted to show you felt safe to rely on your home country, safe enough to reavail yourself of that country's protection.

In the back pages here I have cited and linked a number of official accounts of actual cases. Without revisiting them my recall is that one or more directly dealt with this issue. You could go through the back pages here and look at the cases cited for yourself (most should have links) . . . BUT the BETTER APPROACH will be to get LAWYERED-UP SOON.

Remember, it is primarily the reavailment of home country protection that is grounds for cessation the government's case is based on, and those grounds fall under subsection 46(1)(c.1). I am very reluctant to suggest strategies, or defenses, since you really need a lawyer's help in this . . . BUT as I understand things, the main defense, perhaps the only defense, is that regardless what you have done, you did not intend to reavail yourself of the home country's protection. In contrast, I apprehend making the case that the country is safe for you now could hurt more than help. But again, how to deal with this really requires an experienced lawyer.

Many are well aware how unjust this can be. NDP MP Jenny Kwan initiated efforts to get the Liberal government to address the injustice five years ago, but that effort has not gained much traction. (This aspect of cessation, used against refugees who have become PRs, was among a number of draconian measures adopted by the Harper government; during Trudeau's first term as PM, when the Liberals had a majority government, many of those draconian measures were repealed. But unfortunately not this one.)

What do you thing for another case :
PR status protected
citizenship application 2020
passed the test completed 2021
asked for PP colour copy of passport used
one month later still expecting
background completed
have used home land passport given back , not expired@ PR card
not visited ,never home country
never asked to renew the home passport
Do you think should have problems ?

 

[dpenabill]

What do you thing for another case :
PR status protected
citizenship application 2020
passed the test completed 2021
asked for PP colour copy of passport used
one month later still expecting
background completed
have used home land passport given back , not expired@ PR card
not visited ,never home country
never asked to renew the home passport
Do you think should have problems ?

I am NOT an expert, NOT EVEN CLOSE.

It warrants remembering that I started this topic largely because it became very clear that a significant number of citizenship applicants were suffering very severe consequences for actions many did not know or at least adequately understand how those actions could cause them such serious problems. That, starting this topic, raising awareness of this pitfall, was nearly three years after the change in law that resulted in this, and there were no warnings, no cautions, here. So I waded in, into an area regarding which at the time I knew very, very little about. Even though I have been more or less carrying the water in regards to this particular subject, for many years now, I still know rather little about the law and rules and procedures governing refugees and protected persons coming to Canada. I really am NO expert in this area.

I realize I could have simply said "I do not know."

That said . . .

The cessation cases against protected persons who have applied for citizenship appear to be limited to more obvious and egregious cases, typically involving BOTH obtaining a new (renewed) passport from the home country PLUS travel to that country, typically either several trips to the home country or at least an extended period of time in the home country. So in terms of probabilities, the risk of a cessation issue in the circumstances described seems to be LOW or even very low. But there is no guarantee. I do not know the criteria CBSA or IRCC employ in screening potential cessation cases.

As I have elsewhere noted, citizenship applicants who are refugees or protected persons can encounter issues particular to their background and status which are about matters other than cessation. The risk of problems in this regard depend very much on the individual person's history, their background and circumstances. Some, for example, come from very difficult and complicated political and social situations which can involve security concerns increasing the risk of non-routine background investigation.

As I have already responded to you in the other topic:

This appears to be in line with tens of thousands of citizenship applications pending, most of which do not involve a protected person. Running with the pack, one might say.

See other topics here for more discussion about the processing timeline. I believe there is at least one topic specifically for August 2020 applications.

IRCC has been, to understate it badly, taking its time.

 

[Toronto1971]

I am NOT an expert, NOT EVEN CLOSE.

It warrants remembering that I started this topic largely because it became very clear that a significant number of citizenship applicants were suffering very severe consequences for actions many did not know or at least adequately understand how those actions could cause them such serious problems. That, starting this topic, raising awareness of this pitfall, was nearly three years after the change in law that resulted in this, and there were no warnings, no cautions, here. So I waded in, into an area regarding which at the time I knew very, very little about. Even though I have been more or less carrying the water in regards to this particular subject, for many years now, I still know rather little about the law and rules and procedures governing refugees and protected persons coming to Canada. I really am NO expert in this area.

I realize I could have simply said "I do not know."

That said . . .

The cessation cases against protected persons who have applied for citizenship appear to be limited to more obvious and egregious cases, typically involving BOTH obtaining a new (renewed) passport from the home country PLUS travel to that country, typically either several trips to the home country or at least an extended period of time in the home country. So in terms of probabilities, the risk of a cessation issue in the circumstances described seems to be LOW or even very low. But there is no guarantee. I do not know the criteria CBSA or IRCC employ in screening potential cessation cases.

As I have elsewhere noted, citizenship applicants who are refugees or protected persons can encounter issues particular to their background and status which are about matters other than cessation. The risk of problems in this regard depend very much on the individual person's history, their background and circumstances. Some, for example, come from very difficult and complicated political and social situations which can involve security concerns increasing the risk of non-routine background investigation.

As I have already responded to you in the other topic:

So :
When a protected person became PR
They give you the passport & PR card
That passport is not expired
He/ she is going to Cuba or USA with this passport
Not to visit the native country
Not to renew the home passport
So, begins to apply for canadian citizenship
Application process is going ok till now
Received application july 2020
Background completed Feb 2021
Test completed Aug 2021
Asked for colour copies of passport Nov 2021
excepting for news….
What do you think?
( please short conclusion… with your experience or others )

 

[bunutu]

So :
When a protected person became PR
They give you the passport & PR card
That passport is not expired
He/ she is going to Cuba or USA with this passport
Not to visit the native country
Not to renew the home passport
So, begins to apply for canadian citizenship
Application process is going ok till now
Received application july 2020
Background completed Feb 2021
Test completed Aug 2021
Asked for colour copies of passport Nov 2021
excepting for news….
What do you think?
( please short conclusion… with your experience or others )

it will be no problem.

 

[Toronto1971]

it will be no problem.

Thanks s lot ! God bless you

 

[Toronto1971]

GOD gives you luck
in ur life! Thanks

 

[Toronto1971]

Hello everyone,

I wrote my citizenship test on July 14, 2021. I immediately got the results via e-mail - PASS. On July 16.

Today it is October 20, 2021 (over 3 months) and I have not heard anything from them at all. Is this normal waiting time? I was under the impression that within couple of weeks I would either get a request for an interview or some alternatively some information for the Oath Ceremony. IRCC hasn't required for my passport.


My online status says:

• Language skills
  In progress
• Physical presence
  In progress
• Citizenship test
  Completed
• Background verification
  Completed
• Prohibitions
  In progress
• Citizenship ceremony
  Not started

Im the same as you !

 

[Toronto1971]

Hi I have the same worry.
i sumbit my citizen application on June 3 by Canada post.the cic received it by June 05, since then i didn't hear any respond.I didn't receive Aor.

I m pr with refugee status, 2 yrs ago,my father experienced heart attack back home.I searched online,it's said go back to mother country for a short visit is resonable.as long as keep it shorter than one month.
I certainly understand it has risk.i went to the embassy apply a new passport.planing pay a visit to my dad.but thing happens too quick.when I get the passport.my dad ' surgery has been done successfully.so i didn't Travle back to my home country.

But I was using the passport grab the US visa and Travle to Cuba once.

I was not aware of the cessation due to the applying passport since i start preparing the citizenship application this feb.Acutually there is no related and official article explaining it well before .When I claimed as refugee. I had been told the passport would be back to me when i became to a Pr by my case manager.but the date becoming pr,i kept asking the officer where is the passport.they simply answered "I don't know,call cic call center".I also called the cic.they told me they have no idea.I also received a letter regarding to seized passport.i fax the seized form i had 5 years ago and get no respond.

Before I sent the application out,I met the settlement worker on march 2015,they told me do not worry about the citizenship application leads to cessation,I have also been told it's not necessary to hire a Lawer unless you like to waste money.they have helped a lot of people who has the same situation filled up the application form in their office,none of them are rejected.a lot of them Travle back to their homeland.as long as the visit is medical reason and you can prove it.

Unfortunately,I didn't receive any Respond from Cic,I check the excel sheet everyday.i saw most of the status turn green which gets me streesed.

I can't stop thinking if i get deported.the life i build up here from the past 5 year is ruined.I do have fear go back my mother country, but I also wanna visit my dying grandma and sick Parant who can't take airplane.so crazy. Who can tell me what can i do? So sad,so worry.

But back to the reality,the worry and the anxious are useless,there is no direct answer untill i cross the bridge.

I know a lot of people hates refugee,most of them think refugee could have the welfare from the govement easily.they don't work and they are lazy.I knew some of them did this,but i also believe there are a lot of refugee appreciate the kindness from the canda gorvement who will never abuse this system. Like me,i only apply welfare for 2.5 month before I had my working visa.When I need help,the Canada gorvement helps me,I don't wanna make her dispointed.I believe a lot of refugee also feel the same.A chance is deserved.

In the past five year,since i worked so hard,i Learnt a lot thing about Canada.
Canadian is also human being,as human nature,they always use their own way to seek the shortcut to the success.except the welfare, there is a lot of benifit the Canadian shares in commen.EI,insurance benifit,low income family benifit,Odsp.To save some tax or money,people always can find a loophole to filled them in. I don't think people has a elegant Pr status are better than refugee.Stop hating.

English is not my first language,and Its my first time express myself in a forum like this.pleae
Forgive my grammar and spelling.i remembered years ago when i post some question on some immigration forum in my mother language here.i have never had a chance to get a answer except insult.

This time I just expect people has the same worry as me who read this could feel some connection.

Hi ! I travelled with my home passport 4 times but NOT to my country. I’m so worried now. Please tell me, what happened with your citizenship application?? Did you get trouble with immigration? Please tell me the truth
Thanks

 

[Toronto1971]

Any updates from people who applied to citizenship recently and visited their home country or renewed their home country passport before applying for citizenship?.. I did both actions renewed my passport and visited home country, I should apply for citizenship soon but it just going so stressful.. my lawyer sees that I have strong case to present in case of any cessation proceeding from the government but I am still tooooooo worried.. if any one can share useful information from recent cases that got citizenship or had cessation issues please let me know please please.. thanks a lot.

I only travelled with my home passport + PR card but NOT to my country
NOT renew it
What happened with your application of citizenship? Thanks if you answer me!

 

[SShehata]

Feb 2018 applicant. Citizenship granted recently. Finally, the process is over for me.

Timeline:

Local Office: Kitchener, ON
Application Type: Protected Person based PR, leading to Citizenship. No refugee cessation issues.

Feb 2018 - Application sent
September 2019 - Background check completed
January 2020 - Federal Court Application filed
April 2020 - Approval Received from Case Management Branch (CMB)
June 2020 - Affidavit received from the case officer that file will be processed on priority basis
May 2021 - Test Scheduled
September 2021- Interview Required
Oath - October 2021

Guys, hang on tight. You will all be successful one day. Good luck!

Hi there,

Feb 2018 applicant. Citizenship granted recently. Finally, the process is over for me.

Timeline:

Local Office: Kitchener, ON
Application Type: Protected Person based PR, leading to Citizenship. No refugee cessation issues.

Feb 2018 - Application sent
September 2019 - Background check completed
January 2020 - Federal Court Application filed
April 2020 - Approval Received from Case Management Branch (CMB)
June 2020 - Affidavit received from the case officer that file will be processed on priority basis
May 2021 - Test Scheduled
September 2021- Interview Required
Oath - October 2021

Guys, hang on tight. You will all be successful one day. Good luck!

Hi there,
I am a September 2018 applicant. They just asked me for an interview. Can I ask you how did yours go and what questions did they ask you? Thanks

 

[dpenabill]

Another Update:

Revisiting Camayo v. Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), 2020 FC 213 https://canlii.ca/t/j54n9 and the Federal Court of Appeal decision 2022 FCA 50 https://canlii.ca/t/jndkg

Camayo is a significant case because just this last month (March 29, 2022) the Federal Court of Appeal upheld Federal Court Justice Fuhrer's decision to remand to the RPD to determine the PR/refugee's "intent" and the FCA answered the certified questions related to that. Camayo had actually obtained multiple passports, used them multiple times, and returned to the home country five times, and while the RPD proceeded with cessation and the IAD upheld cessation of status (I believe that IAD decision is here https://canlii.ca/t/j69pj . . . caveat, I am not absolutely certain, since the names are redacted, like they are in most of these kinds of cases in the IAD, but I am quite sure this is the official IAD decision in the Camayo case).

The IAD had concluded:

. . . the culmination of the travel to Colombia on numerous occasions to visit her sick father and for a humanitarian mission, as well as her use of her Colombian passport to travel for vacation purposes to other countries, demonstrates the voluntariness, intent, and actual re-availment for this Respondent.​

Among multiple factors that Justice Fuhrer cited the IAD failed to consider, as relevant to determining whether Camayo's actions constituted "voluntarily" reavailing herself of home country's protection, was in regards to her subjective understanding and knowledge, in regards which the FCA ruled:

Yes it is . . . "reasonable for the RPD to rely upon evidence of the refugee’s lack of subjective [let alone any] knowledge that use of a passport confers diplomatic protection to rebut the presumption that a refugee who acquires and travels on a passport issued by their country of origin has intended to avail themselves of that state’s protection."​

PR/refugees should NOT take much if any comfort from the Camayo decision. While it appears likely she will not lose her PR status (her actual fate still to be decided upon remand for reconsideration), her case illustrates the extent to which cessation can be and is prosecuted DESPITE a ton of equitable factors in her favour (not the least of which were the reasons for her trips to the home country, to visit and assist a sick parent and another time as part of a humanitarian project to provide help to children in need there).

MORE REPRESENTATIVE of the typical cessation case, another decision from just last month, is here Iqbal v. Canada, 2022 FC 387 https://canlii.ca/t/jndjd or https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/fct/doc/2022/2022fc387/2022fc387.html . . . another case triggered by a citizenship application. And it was indeed Ms. Iqbal's citizenship application which gave the government the evidence she had traveled to the home country, triggering the referral to CBSA, and in turn resulting in the cessation of her protected person status, automatically terminating her PR status, and rendering her ineligible for citizenship,

There is a little older IAD decision which I do not think has been cited and linked here but which is worth citing and linking . . . https://canlii.ca/t/jcjmc . . . The Panel's decision echoes scores of others and is all too familiar to those who follow this subject:

She was issued an Iranian passport in 2011, after she was granted protection and permanent residence in Canada. She traveled to Iran twice on that passport. In so doing, she received the “diplomatic protection” of Iran enabling her to travel as a citizen of Iran. . . . Accordingly, I find that the respondent has actually obtained protection from Iran merely by travelling there on an Iranian passport and accepting the protection of the Iranian authorities throughout her time there.​

It is worth citing in part because it further reflects the recognition of how severe the consequences are, the Panel concluding:

This result will be very distressing for the respondent – particularly, because she strikes me as an honest person who has lived under the Sword of Damocles since 2014. . . . but the law affords me no jurisdiction to consider such grounds for relief in this proceeding.​

That IAD panel more or less encouraged the individual to obtain legal counsel to pursue the possibility of other options . . . which points back to the Camayo case and perhaps pursuing a defense based on no intent to reavail.

 

[Anfer2325]

Hey guys,

I'm very confused on what my status in Canada is and any advice will be very much appreciate it.

My father moved to Canada on the year 2014 and was granted refugee status on 2018. He listed me as a companying dependent on his PR application. I got my COPr and moved to Canada last year, under I believe is DR(Dependent of refugee) category as stated on my COPR.

I never asked for refugee myself nor I was personally assessed as far as I know, but I do understand I got my PR because of my father's status.

Does this make me a refugee as well? Should I avoid travelling to my home country or using my home country passport?

I'm very desperate as I've found very little information on what my dos and don'ts are and I don't want a cessation case open up against me or my father because of me travelling back.

PD: Sorry for my English, I've done my best to learn the language as fast as I can.