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Refugee - MP refusing to help without valid passport

mtlandrf

Star Member
Jun 28, 2021
51
12
My MP's office just got back to me after I asked for help in July.

I was just told for an hour, if I do not send a copy of the valid passport, they will not and they cannot help me to check status of the citizenship application or urgent processing request.

I explained that I cannot renew my passport from the country of origin and IRCC is fully aware of this.

Then I was told, in Canada, "we follow procedures" and without a valid passport they cannot help.

I asked that in writing and was refused.

What are the alternatives?
 
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Das67

Hero Member
Oct 19, 2019
967
559
Just tell them once you are citizen you know who will be voting and see what will happen next. Seriously I never heard anything like this before. I asked my MP twice for help, he never asked me for passport you just need to fill a consent form.
 

mtlandrf

Star Member
Jun 28, 2021
51
12
Is there another way to find out if your application is routine or non-routine without going through MP's office?

Clearly I can't take this route
 

maddy044

Full Member
Jan 22, 2016
36
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,290
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Is there another way to find out if your application is routine or non-routine without going through MP's office?
While there are isolated reports of MPs obtaining information or even somehow appearing to help, generally the efforts to solicit help or information through the MP tend to not be particularly fruitful.

Moreover, knowing whether the application has involved some procedure outside what all applications go through, that is knowing whether it is non-routine, is largely useless information. Just a Fingerprint request makes an application non-routine. For most, that is no big deal, and often does not even result in any delay in processing.

Additionally, a MP will not be given any information that the applicant cannot obtain directly through the ATIP process. A MP's office may couch the information it obtains and shares in some explanatory fashion, but that tends to be superficial not particular to the individual. So, for example, if the MP learns that IRCC has made requests for RQ-related information, the MP's office might explain that is about verifying actual physical presence and means some delay in the processing timeline. NOT NEWS.

I just did my citizenship test and I want to send a copy of my past passports to IRCC right away so my application is processed asap.
Your queries are a little confusing. You just did the test barely more than a month ago. Clearly your application is progressing.

I asked for urgent processing 3 months ago and they still have not made a decision apparently (phone agent confirmed)
That was posted a week or so after you posted having taken the knowledge of Canada test (September 14 and September 24 respectively) . . .
. . . it is possible that you were scheduled for the test in response to your request for urgent processing, or
. . . the request for urgent processing has not resulted in expedited processing

Either way, you have recently taken the test and your application is on track for a Decision fairly soon or there is some concern or question that will result in further processing. Urgent processing is essentially not relevant at this stage. That is, you will either be approved and scheduled for the oath relatively soon, or there is a question or concern that will cause the process to go longer. A strong case for urgent processing will not, not ordinarily anyway, override the decision-making process itself.

That is, your application is there, at the decision-making fork-in-the-path, so you will be a citizen fairly soon . . . or there will be further processing likely meaning a longer, non-urgent processing timeline. Not much, if anything, you can do but watch for notice from IRCC, which is likely to be your best source for information about what is next. Decision made status followed by notice the oath is scheduled, for example, will inform you that is where things are going about as fast as any other possible avenue to obtain information. GCMS notes not likely to reveal this much if at all sooner than actual notice of the Decision Made status will.

Moreover:
I applied back in July 2019, and I have been checking my application status pretty much every day,
. . . scheduled to take citizenship test online between May 21, 2021 and June 10, 2021 . . .
. . . However, I never received an email for the online test invitation and when I tried to take the test anyway, the system did not let me.
. . . was told my test is cancelled.
While that query was later resolved since you did get to take the test in mid-September, it illustrates that your application appears to be in the mainstream of normal processing, even if not precisely routine, recognizing that summer and fall 2019 applicants are among those who have been hit the hardest by the measures taken in response to Covid-19.

Given the timeline, which is consistent with scores and scores of other applications made around the same time you made yours, again it readily appears your application is at the decision-making fork-in-the-path, so you will be a citizen fairly soon . . . or there will be further processing likely meaning a longer, non-urgent processing timeline. Nothing you can do to change which track your application is on. No need to get more information about it, at least not unless and until you learn it has taken the fork in the path headed toward more in-depth inquiries and longer processing. Which you will learn if there is no Decision Made in the near term, or if you get requests for additional information.

ALL OF WHICH essentially illustrates that most citizenship applicants should be able to figure out the status of things, as BEST the status of things can be known, based on what they know about their own case and following their status online and watching for notices, and responding accordingly. I realize scores of applicants get bogged down trying to micro-manage the progress of their application through the process. That rarely translates into a different timeline or outcome than how things go for the applicant who checks eCas two or three times a month and otherwise waits for notices.

Which does not alleviate the frustration or anxiety many suffer. Short of noting they can join the activists, not much I can offer in this regard . . . except, as best I can, to help others understand how the process works, and hopefully help some avoid unnecessary frustrations and anxieties fomented by unrealistic expectations sometimes promulgated in this forum.

Okay I will lawyer up.
If you have real concerns about the current status of your application, for sure lawyer-up. But from your posts here and in numerous other threads, again it appears your application is in the mainstream of processing, no particular hint there is a problem. Which is to suggest a lawyer is not likely to get you to the oath any sooner. That said, I fully encourage anyone to obtain the assistance of a lawyer. Even if all that is gained is a better understanding of things.

Incorrect, the link you provide specifically points out that delays/non-routine processing is caused only if there is a cessation proceeding pending or under review. There are examples where applicant who were refugees got citizenship in well under the 12 month mentioned on the website.
Actually, @maddy044, that is NOT what the information published by the Bellissimo Law Group says either. Refugees can encounter delays/non-routine processing for any of the same issues any other citizenship applicant might, ranging from background concerns to physical presence questions. That is, it is not true that non-routine processing for refugees is "caused only" by cessation proceedings. This just happens to be a particular issue refugees might encounter if they have obtained or used a home country passport, or traveled to their home country.

NOTE: I often peruse the Bellissimo webpages for information BUT MUCH OF IT IS OUTDATED. It is a source I refer to help put some things in context, but it is NOT a reliable source for current information. Many of its webpages, including information at this one linked here, are based on information BEFORE BILL C-6, for example, and otherwise not reflecting caselaw or other changes during the last five years or so.
 

mtlandrf

Star Member
Jun 28, 2021
51
12
That was posted a week or so after you posted having taken the knowledge of Canada test (September 14 and September 24 respectively) . . .
. . . it is possible that you were scheduled for the test in response to your request for urgent processing, or
. . . the request for urgent processing has not resulted in expedited processing
IRCC agents confirmed that my urgent processing request has not been processed yet.

Additionally, a MP will not be given any information that the applicant cannot obtain directly through the ATIP process.
From what I have seen, it's the only way to know if the file is non-routine for sure.

Clearly your application is progressing.
Just not urgently. I meet one of the urgent processing criteria and emailed them an explanation and a proof.
  • needing to travel because of death or serious illness in your family and you can’t get a passport in your current nationality
Urgent processing is essentially not relevant at this stage. That is, you will either be approved and scheduled for the oath relatively soon, or there is a question or concern that will cause the process to go longer. A strong case for urgent processing will not, not ordinarily anyway, override the decision-making process itself.
I have seen, from the urgent processing discussion thread, that if it is approved then your application can move from the test to an oath within a month. I was hoping for that but now I think it is the time to accept that I will not meet my unwell grandmother this December and move on.

Which is to suggest a lawyer is not likely to get you to the oath any sooner.
I consulted with (non-immigraion) lawyer friends and somehow they thought it will at least make the govt to check on my file - but they have not dealt with IRCC before.

Thank you so much for your input, @dpenabill ! I will stop wasting my energy and unnecessarily directing frustrations towards bureaucratic institutions as it may help at all.
 
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maddy044

Full Member
Jan 22, 2016
36
34
Actually, @maddy044, that is NOT what the information published by the Bellissimo Law Group says either. Refugees can encounter delays/non-routine processing for any of the same issues any other citizenship applicant might, ranging from background concerns to physical presence questions. That is, it is not true that non-routine processing for refugees is "caused only" by cessation proceedings. This just happens to be a particular issue refugees might encounter if they have obtained or used a home country passport, or traveled to their home country.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear enough but what I meant was that apart from all the regular reasons for an application to be non-routine there are additional issues such as cessation for refugees but the point is that a refugee-PR applying for citizenship does not make it an automatic non-routine application.
 
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justanotherguy28

Star Member
Sep 28, 2021
99
54
Then I was told, in Canada, "we follow procedures" and without a valid passport they cannot help.
No elected official should respond with this passive aggressive tone for a routine request.
I can't imagine even Conservative party folks saying nasty stuff like this.

Is your MP Maxime Bernier or something? There's clear disrespect and they're trying to look down upon you.

I don't want the name of the MP but I'm curious to know what party this person belongs to.
 
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cobie2

Star Member
Aug 23, 2021
84
80
My MP's office just got back to me after I asked for help in July.

I was just told for an hour, if I do not send a copy of the valid passport, they will not and they cannot help me to check status of the citizenship application or urgent processing request.

I explained that I cannot renew my passport from the country of origin and IRCC is fully aware of this.

Then I was told, in Canada, "we follow procedures" and without a valid passport they cannot help.

I asked that in writing and was refused.

What are the alternatives?
You know what, I think they know damn well that refugees cannot renew their passport. They simply don't want to help you so that's the bogus excuse they came up with. Makes no sense at all, they should be able to accept a copy of your PR card (which does state your country of origin). What information do they need from your passport that's not on your PR card? Sorry to say but it's just plain shenanigans from your MP who made up this excuse because, for whatever reason, he doesn't want to help you.
 
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seaboard33

Star Member
Aug 10, 2021
63
30
My MP's office just got back to me after I asked for help in July.

I was just told for an hour, if I do not send a copy of the valid passport, they will not and they cannot help me to check status of the citizenship application or urgent processing request.

I explained that I cannot renew my passport from the country of origin and IRCC is fully aware of this.

Then I was told, in Canada, "we follow procedures" and without a valid passport they cannot help.

I asked that in writing and was refused.

What are the alternatives?
you must have mentioned in your request that you are a refugee, etc, etc. sometime its better to give less information. my mp office who is conservative actually followed up twice with me when i abandoned the case as i was lazy to fill the form. they send form called constituent consent and disclosure. form only ask uci, etc not passport information.
it unfortunate they do this to you but you can write directly to the party leader to see if they help
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,588
7,935
My MP's office just got back to me after I asked for help in July.

I was just told for an hour, if I do not send a copy of the valid passport, they will not and they cannot help me to check status of the citizenship application or urgent processing request.

I explained that I cannot renew my passport from the country of origin and IRCC is fully aware of this.

Then I was told, in Canada, "we follow procedures" and without a valid passport they cannot help.

I asked that in writing and was refused.

What are the alternatives?
The most likely scenario here is that it's an uninformed employee in the mps office. Which is shown by refusal to out it in writing.

They to get that employees boss on the line. Or the mp. Or the mp's personal assistant (might be in Ottawa office ).

Go to a different mp. If one of a different party, inform the mp and the new mp. Inform the party that you were refused service for a non applicable rule.

In short, raise a little hell - but politely.

(It's unlikely this is a party issue or anything more than an office employee who is not well informed and a little bit arrogant.)
 
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mtlandrf

Star Member
Jun 28, 2021
51
12
No elected official should respond with this passive aggressive tone for a routine request.
I can't imagine even Conservative party folks saying nasty stuff like this.

Is your MP Maxime Bernier or something? There's clear disrespect and they're trying to look down upon you.

I don't want the name of the MP but I'm curious to know what party this person belongs to.
My MP is a Liberal cabinet minister and this is a safe seat. I figured that they would be busy with the election so I did not mind waiting (I asked for help back in July). I have recorded the conversation this time because they were promising me a call back for several times and didn't get back to me.

You know what, I think they know damn well that refugees cannot renew their passport. They simply don't want to help you so that's the bogus excuse they came up with. Makes no sense at all, they should be able to accept a copy of your PR card (which does state your country of origin). What information do they need from your passport that's not on your PR card? Sorry to say but it's just plain shenanigans from your MP who made up this excuse because, for whatever reason, he doesn't want to help you.
I was told it's for the privacy reason. I have filled out IMM 5475 as asked but that was not enough because "in Canada, we have a different kind of law".

you must have mentioned in your request that you are a refugee, etc, etc. sometime its better to give less information. my mp office who is conservative actually followed up twice with me when i abandoned the case as i was lazy to fill the form. they send form called constituent consent and disclosure. form only ask uci, etc not passport information.
it unfortunate they do this to you but you can write directly to the party leader to see if they help
I figured pursuing this route is pretty useless. I may try and ask for help with a local NDP MP later.

The most likely scenario here is that it's an uninformed employee in the mps office. Which is shown by refusal to out it in writing.

They to get that employees boss on the line. Or the mp. Or the mp's personal assistant (might be in Ottawa office ).

Go to a different mp. If one of a different party, inform the mp and the new mp. Inform the party that you were refused service for a non applicable rule.

In short, raise a little hell - but politely.

(It's unlikely this is a party issue or anything more than an office employee who is not well informed and a little bit arrogant.)
I ended up getting this in writing. And once again, I was reminded that "We cannot take any action until you do so". Perfect.
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,588
7,935
I ended up getting this in writing. And once again, I was reminded that "We cannot take any action until you do so". Perfect.
Wow, uninformed employees usually back down at this point. Show it to the press, send a copy to minister of immigration's constituency office - underlining that for a protected person, acquiring a "valid passport" is a bad idea, and requiring it to get a response from an MP's office is malpractice.