Refugee could lose PR and refugee status after returning to home country

[screech339]

As I said, the actors who represent a proximate threat to most refugees are not state actors. As non state actors, they don't "recognize" citizenship. They are [extremely?] unlikely to know that Canada does not provide protection to PRs. These unsavoury actors are not standing around ports of entry inspecting passports and examining status documents and determining who is under native law and who is protected by foreign actors -- they're violent thugs, and not generally the brightest bulbs in the pack!

As visitors, and not residents, refugees are less likely to be perceived as threatening (e.g., an unwanted, minority ethnicity has, by virtue of "visiting", already been racially cleansed from the area -- they're no longer resident, they're only "visiting"). Further, having "status" in a well respected country, like Canada, may give these actors pause -- they're unlikely to want to be at the centre of an international incident which might redound unfavourably upon themselves.

Do these visitor show their PR card at the border? Probably not. And if they did, you think these staff really care? It doesn't matter what any staff thinks at any port of entry what they hold and what protection they have. They are citizens returning nothing more. If they are "thugs" as you seem to call them, why did the refugee bother returning in the first place. If he/she did then that is their own fault for returning. They should know better. If there was any incident, they can simply say to another country "Mind your own damn business! I don't step in with your citizens, why should you step in mine. He/she is a citizen of my country. You want to step in? The refugee should have entered as Canadian."

 

[Natan]

The Dual-Egyptian reporter, Fahmy, entered Egypt as an Egyptian (used Egyptian passport instead of Canadian passport) and thus has to follow country's laws as an Egyptian. Since he gotten into trouble, he pulled a Canadian Passport. He would have gotten a lot more support from Canadians here if he actually enter Egypt as a Canadian. What he did basically constitutes as a "Canadian of Convenience". Only used it when he gets into trouble or when it suits him.

Fahmy (a Canadian citizen and not a refugee) was arrested by the state (i.e., Egypt). His proximate persecutor was the state itself. Few refugees are threatened directly by state actors, much less by the state itself. Most refugees are threatened by non state actors.

 

[screech339]

Fahmy (a Canadian citizen and not a refugee) was arrested by the state (i.e., Egypt). His proximate persecutor was the state itself. Few refugees are threatened directly by state actors, much less by the state itself. Most refugees are threatened by non state actors.

Obviously you didn't get my point at all. If you want CANADIAN PROTECTION, enter country with Canadian Passport. This applies to all PR's, including refugee PRs entering their home countries.

 

[Natan]

Do these visitor show their PR card at the border? Probably not. And if they did, you think these staff really care? It doesn't matter what any staff thinks at any port of entry what they hold and what protection they have. They are citizens returning nothing more. If they are "thugs" as you seem to call them, why did the refugee bother returning in the first place. If he/she did then that is their own fault for returning. They should know better. If there was any incident, they can simply say to another country "Mind your own damn business! I don't step in with your citizens, why should you step in mine. He/she is a citizen of my country. You want to step in? The refugee should have entered as Canadian."

Again, most refugees are threatened by non state actors. It's rare, indeed, for a state actor, like the Prime Minister, to knock down your door, toting an AK47, rape your wife and kill your son and threaten you with more of the same if you stick around. It's generally non state actors, like thugs and criminals, who show up and do the dirty work.

 

[Natan]

Obviously you didn't get my point at all. If you want CANADIAN PROTECTION, enter country with Canadian Passport. This applies to all PR's, including refugee PRs entering their home countries.

Obviously you didn't get my point: simply not living there anymore and being a Canadian PR may be enough to remove, or at least significantly lessen, the danger.

 

[screech339]

Again, most refugees are threatened by non state actors. It's rare, indeed, for a state actor, like the Prime Minister, to knock down your door, toting an AK47, rape your wife and kill your son and threaten you with more of the same if you stick around. It's generally non state actors, like thugs and criminals, who show up and do the dirty work.

Blah, blah blah.. Repeating the same "state actor" crap. Want Canadian Protection? Enter as Canadian. It is simple as that.

 

[Natan]

Blah, blah blah.. Repeating the same "state actor" crap. Want Canadian Protection? Enter as Canadian. It is simple as that.

A Canadian PR cannot enter any country as a Canadian citizen.

 

[screech339]

Obviously you didn't get my point: simply not living there anymore and being a Canadian PR may be enough to remove, or at least significantly lessen, the danger.

Walking in the street, "Hey everyone, you guys cannot kill me in blood feud because some great great grandfather killed one of yours. I have Canadian PR. I am untouchable."

You see how foolish that sounds. You re-entered the country knowing full well your life is in danger. If you're willing to do that, that means are poking Canada in the eye. Then Canada has every right to revoke refugee status despite you knowingly violating the rules of refugee status. In Canada's eyes , by returning, you are accepting the home country's protection from blood feud, not Canada's. You sought for Canadian protection for this reason. Now you are flouting your "protection". You are declaring to Canada that you are safe in your country despite you are really not. Basically you are trusting your home country's government to do the protection for you.

If, in the event, the blood feud was finished and no longer exists, and you returned as a PR, you are again declaring to Canada that your life is no longer in danger any more. You don't need Canadian protection anymore. In that case, you forfeit your refugee status as PR.

 

[screech339]

A Canadian PR cannot enter any country as a Canadian citizen.

Of course, silly! Apply and get Canadian citizenship first to enter any country as Canadian citizen. And you illustrated my point. Want Canadian Protection? Enter country as Canadian citizen.

PR don't get Canadian Protection when they enter any country, home or otherwise.

 

[Natan]

Walking in the street, "Hey everyone, you guys cannot kill me in blood feud because some great great grandfather killed one of yours. I have Canadian PR. I am untouchable."

You see how foolish that sounds. You re-entered the country knowing your life is in danger. If you're willing to do that, that means in Canada's eyes you don't need Canadian protection. You seeks Canadian protection for this reason. Now you are flouting your "protection". You are declaring to Canada that you are safe in your country.

If, in the event, the blood feud was finished and no longer exists, and you returned as a PR, you are again declaring to Canada that your life is no longer in danger any more. You don't need Canadian protection anymore. In that case, you forfeit your refugee status as PR.

Most refugees are threatened for being a member of a minority group or for political views. In both cases, no longer being resident usually reduces the threat both to the refugee and to those who threatened the refugee. If a member of a minority, the refugee has already been cleansed from the area, the refugee's visit notwithstanding. The political views of a visitor are far less threatening than the political views of a resident.

In order to qualify as a refugee in most countries (including Canada), one must have faced real and actual threats to one's person (not imagined or possible future threats). This means the refugee must provide substantive evidence of having already sufferer great harm or of great harm being imminent.

 

[screech339]

Most refugees are threatened for being a member of a minority group or for political views. In both cases, no longer being resident usually reduces the threat both to the refugee and to those who threatened the refugee. If a member of a minority, the refugee has already been cleansed from the area, the refugee's visit notwithstanding. The political views of a visitor are far less threatening than the political views of a resident.

In order to qualify as a refugee in most countries (including Canada), one must have faced real and actual threats to one's person (not imagined or possible future threats). This means the refugee must provide substantive evidence of having already sufferer great harm or of great harm being imminent.

Yes, you provided proof of evidence of great harm or harm being imminent to get refugee status and gotten refugee status. What are you doing coming back to home country if you are "still in danger"? Either your life is no longer in danger or your danger threat is not as much as you claim it to be.

 

[Natan]

Of course, silly! Apply and get Canadian citizenship first to enter any country as Canadian citizen. And you illustrated my point. Want Canadian Protection? Enter country as Canadian citizen.

PR don't get Canadian Protection when they enter any country, home or otherwise.

No one has suggested that a PR should receive Canadian protection while in their home country. I am simply stating that a refugee, by virtue of no longer being resident in their native country, and by virtue of being a Canadian PR, may no longer be in as much danger in their homeland, as they were when they became refugees. I'm also stating that returning to their homeland and taking up residence, after having lost their Canadian PR status, may result in them being in exactly the same danger they fled in the first place.

 

[screech339]

A true refugee would never return to their home country for life whether you are PR or naturalized Canadian. If you can return, you are basically saying your life is no longer in danger. Now since you obtain refugee status based on this premise of threat of life and you returned home, your refugee status should no longer applies as it entails to Canada that your life is no longer in danger. Thus no longer need Canada's protection. And by Canadian's protection, I mean by "Pulling foreign national out of the home country or refusal to deport foreign national to their home country out of harm's way".

You asked for Canada's protection to pull you out of the country or prevent you from returning to home country. Canada never asked you to stay out of your life's concern. YOU DID. Since you asked Canada for help, these are the rules under which to abide by, including never to return to home country as a PR. Don't want to abide by their rules, don't ask for Canada's help. Violate the rules, you lose refugee status and PR. It is that simple. It is not that hard to follow.

 

[screech339]

I'm also stating that returning to their homeland and taking up residence, after having lost their Canadian PR status, may result in them being in exactly the same danger they fled in the first place.

And by taking up residency as a refugee PR in home country, it means your life is no longer in danger. If your life was in fact still in danger, what were you doing taking up residency or visiting your home country in the first place. Either you lied about the threat or the threat was real in the past but now the threat no longer exists.

 

[Natan]

And by taking up residency as a refugee PR in home country, it means your life is no longer in danger. If your life was in fact still in danger, what were you doing taking up residency or visiting your home country in the first place. Either you lied about the threat or the threat was real in the past but now the threat no longer exists.

Please reread my statement more carefully, to wit:

"I'm also stating that returning to their homeland and taking up residence, after having lost their Canadian PR status, may result in them being in exactly the same danger they fled in the first place."

Note, you even highlighted (in bold) the contingent part of my statement -- that the refugee had their PR status revoked and is being deported, and that is why they are taking up residence in their homeland again.