Reenter Canada with a different country passport

[princeofindia]

Hi Qorax, Leon and all other experts who have advised me time to time with my queries. Thank you all. I am happy to inform you that i am landing in july 2014 in Canada.

I am a 2005 applicant from New Delhi and i finally got immigrant visa after 9 years !!! My circumstances have changed a lot. I was single in 2005 now i am married with a 5 year old child and thankfully all have been given visa. I was in India in 2005 desperate to go to west. Today i am in a tax free govt job in Abu Dhabi which will be foolish to leave. I wish Canada had decided my case then within a year.

Ok quick question to you guys. I dont think you guys would have come across such a unique case as i am going to describe. I am landing in July 2014 with Indian passport and my PR card remains valid till July 2019. So it gives me a 5 year backup.

I was born in GOA and my parents and grandparents too were Goans. Because Canada was taking so long, last year i applied for Portugal passport process. (Portugal gives passport to goans born before 1961 and to their next 2 generations). My portugal passport process is still under processing and will take a couple of years.

Say after my Canada PR card expires in 2019, i get a portugal passport and using that i go to canada say after 5 years and as you know Canada gives portugal citizens visa free travel to canada. Or with Portugal passport i enter USA since it is visa free to USA for portugal passportholders and enter canada through road boder from USA will the Canada immigration come to know that i am the same person who landed with indian passport and whose PR card has expired or since i am entering with a different country passport who has visa free travel to Canda i will be considered a tourist from portugal. And once i enter Canada even after 5 years and if i stay 2 years i can renew pr card again.

regards
prince

 

[scylla]

You should assume immigration will know you are the same person who landed with an Indian passport and whose PR card has expired.

 

[novsaggi]

Hi Qorax, Leon and all other experts who have advised me time to time with my queries. Thank you all. I am happy to inform you that i am landing in july 2014 in Canada.

I am a 2005 applicant from New Delhi and i finally got immigrant visa after 9 years !!! My circumstances have changed a lot. I was single in 2005 now i am married with a 5 year old child and thankfully all have been given visa. I was in India in 2005 desperate to go to west. Today i am in a tax free govt job in Abu Dhabi which will be foolish to leave. I wish Canada had decided my case then within a year.

Ok quick question to you guys. I dont think you guys would have come across such a unique case as i am going to describe. I am landing in July 2014 with Indian passport and my PR card remains valid till July 2019. So it gives me a 5 year backup.

I was born in GOA and my parents and grandparents too were Goans. Because Canada was taking so long, last year i applied for Portugal passport process. (Portugal gives passport to goans born before 1961 and to their next 2 generations). My portugal passport process is still under processing and will take a couple of years.

Say after my Canada PR card expires in 2019, i get a portugal passport and using that i go to canada say after 5 years and as you know Canada gives portugal citizens visa free travel to canada. Or with Portugal passport i enter USA since it is visa free to USA for portugal passportholders and enter canada through road boder from USA will the Canada immigration come to know that i am the same person who landed with indian passport and whose PR card has expired or since i am entering with a different country passport who has visa free travel to Canda i will be considered a tourist from portugal. And once i enter Canada even after 5 years and if i stay 2 years i can renew pr card again.

regards
prince

Giving my 2 cents in this case, since i just recently had quite a good amount of communication with canada border @ detroit-windsor.
Few useful information -
1. Yes Canada took time, but you have decided to take their offer of immigration aka making the landing in july 2014
Now if you decide in the meantime to pursue other arenas, they will be period - NOT HAPPY
A simple thing one canadian lawyer told me - when you accept their PR, they assume you will take their PR path to citizenship, if you dont pursue that path, they will give you unlimited hurdles and the forum is full of examples in that scenario.
2. You are trying to misuse their system of 2 yr PR renewal, what is the guarantee that law wont be changed in 5 yrs.
3. Border has full info of your file - they have the info when you applied and your trips when you got the PR. Its the judgement call of the officer, and over the yrs they have only gotten stricter.
4. Also, any country which has ties with any other country to travel visa free, usually means one thing - They share all their information in their border control software.
So you applying for passport or getting another country passport, information is shared
In the light of all this information, do you think what you are doing is right ?

 

[steaky]

Although information might be shared, immigration might not know you are the same person who landed with an Indian passport and whose PR card has expired.

There's another poster in this forum whose PR card expired, paid for a visa exempted passport and returned to Canada using that visa exempted passport without being detected by immigration of his PR status.

 

[Msafiri]

Although information might be shared, immigration might not know you are the same person who landed with an Indian passport and whose PR card has expired.

There's another poster in this forum whose PR card expired, paid for a visa exempted passport and returned to Canada using that visa exempted passport without being detected by immigration of his PR status.

Oh yeah but he went to collect his PR Card and got a NO sorry you were reported and are no longer a PR. CIC whilst blushing at having not connected the 2 documents (why don't they fingerprint PR applicants!!) saved this ex PR from misrepresentation.

To the original OP. The misrepresentation clauses in the IRPA are amongst the most widespread I have seen in multiple immigration systems. Any immigration gain from the misrepresentation including citizenship when its discovered will be revoked and you may end up with jail time and deportation to Portugal, India or Abu Dhabi as the case may be. Your plan is part of the residence fraud rings uncovered in Mississauga and Montreal that have caused grief for many innocent Citizenship applicants but with CIC leaving such loopholes who is to blame - is it you or them?

 

[txboyscout]

With the citizenship requirements being thightened with C-24, I assume a overhaul of the PR and RO requirements is just around the corner

 

[Msafiri]

With the citizenship requirements being thightened with C-24, I assume a overhaul of the PR and RO requirements is just around the corner

CIC actually have (maybe inadvertently but more likely in a calculated manner) controlled the PR side of things with the 183 minimum days clause for each calendar year in the citizenship requirement. Those PRs playing the RO roulette will be easier to catch out as their getting citizenship will get more difficult so they have to renew their PR Cards. Wait till the ESTA type scheme kicks in likely by Q2 2015 where all PRs (including non visitor visa exempt PRs in breach of the RO who more easily sneak in without report) will have to provide their PR data pre boarding and we see some IAD appeals appear.

 

[txboyscout]

CIC actually have (maybe inadvertently but more likely in a calculated manner) controlled the PR side of things with the 183 minimum days clause for each calendar year in the citizenship requirement. Those PRs playing the RO roulette will be easier to catch out as their getting citizenship will get more difficult so they have to renew their PR Cards. Wait till the ESTA type scheme kicks in likely by Q2 2015 where all PRs (including non visitor visa exempt PRs in breach of the RO who more easily sneak in without report) will have to provide their PR data pre boarding and we see some IAD appeals appear.

I agree with what you say but I still expect some sort of legal change to the RO requirements (maybe 183 days out of every 365 days as the US does).

I used to work in the ME and it is chock full of Canadian PR holders working there and somehow managing to maintain their PR status in Canada.

As for the ESTA type scheme, I wonder if they will deny boarding to those not meeting the RO or will they still be allowed to enter Canada to get their day in immigration court?

 

[canuck_in_uk]

As for the ESTA type scheme, I wonder if they will deny boarding to those not meeting the RO or will they still be allowed to enter Canada to get their day in immigration court?

For those PRs who still have a valid PR card, they wouldn't require the ESTA. They would be allowed to board the plane, come to Canada and face the usual risk at the border of RO examination and being reported by CBSA.

It's the PRs with expired PR cards that I think will have a problem, if the ESTA (using the American name as we don't yet know what the Canadian will be called) application asks about a person's status in Canada. If the PR answers truthfully, I imagine the result would be something like "You are a PR, you don't require this visa", even if they don't meet the RO. They would then be forced to apply for a PR Travel Document, where the RO would then be examined.

If the ESTA app doesn't ask about status in Canada, then I imagine a visa-exempt PR with an expired PR card could get the ESTA, board the plane, enter Canada and face the usual RO examination risk at the border.

That's what I think anyways, I hope it makes sense lol.

 

[novsaggi]

Although information might be shared, immigration might not know you are the same person who landed with an Indian passport and whose PR card has expired.

There's another poster in this forum whose PR card expired, paid for a visa exempted passport and returned to Canada using that visa exempted passport without being detected by immigration of his PR status.

I agree with you. But knowing how things r toughening up and laws on the brink of change, it probably will be wise to assume few yrs from now they might have your full information @ border

 

[princeofindia]

Where is the misrepresentation?

Canada gives visa free travel to portugal passport holders. If they did not ask me at the time of entry, if i am a PR card holder and allowed me inside canada and subsequently i stayed for 2 years then i become entitled to renew PR card after 2 years. That is what the Canadian immigration law says.

Anyways i only want my son to get the Canada PR card. So i am not going to enter 10 years later with a portugal passport. Right now my son is only 5 years old and i have decided for him to apply for Portugal passport rather than go to Canada now and settle there.

But when my son turns 18 if he feels i did a mistake for him by giving him portugal nationality; can he travel to Canada on a portugal passport and declare to immigration that he wants to remain a Canada PR and legally is he allowed to do that. Is he likely to be successful.

regards
prince

Oh yeah but he went to collect his PR Card and got a NO sorry you were reported and are no longer a PR. CIC whilst blushing at having not connected the 2 documents (why don't they fingerprint PR applicants!!) saved this ex PR from misrepresentation.

To the original OP. The misrepresentation clauses in the IRPA are amongst the most widespread I have seen in multiple immigration systems. Any immigration gain from the misrepresentation including citizenship when its discovered will be revoked and you may end up with jail time and deportation to Portugal, India or Abu Dhabi as the case may be. Your plan is part of the residence fraud rings uncovered in Mississauga and Montreal that have caused grief for many innocent Citizenship applicants but with CIC leaving such loopholes who is to blame - is it you or them?

 

[Alurra71]

If your son already has a PR card then you don't need to do anything at all. You can stay where you are, he can stay where he is. So long as the laws do not change between now and the time he turns 18 he can apply for a PRTD citing that he was a young child when removed from Canada and he now wishes to return at his earliest opportunity since becoming an adult. A visa exempt passport will have absolutely no impact on that process and he will not loose his PR status formally for not meeting the RO provided that you don't do anything to trigger CIC to look into your families situation.

Honestly, it sounds as if you have ulterior motives for doing what you are proposing and it makes it appear as if you are trying to circumvent the laws and rules so it will benefit you. If you were truly no longer interested in having your Canadian PR then why did you both taking the visa, paying the fees for your wife and child and landing in Canada?

 

[keesio]

Where is the misrepresentation?

Basically if you are a citizen or PR, technically you must enter as such (declare yourself as one to border officials). The US does it too. For example when I go to the US, I must enter with my US passport because I hold a US citizenship. When I go back to Canada, I must enter with my Canadian passport because I also hold a Canadian citizenship. So I'd need to carry two passports when I travel to the US even though either one allows me visa-free access to the other. Bit of a pain but that is the rule. How tightly they enforce this rule is unknown. I doubt it is strong. But technically it can be classified as misrepresentation.

 

[txboyscout]

Where is the misrepresentation?

Canada gives visa free travel to portugal passport holders. If they did not ask me at the time of entry, if i am a PR card holder and allowed me inside canada and subsequently i stayed for 2 years then i become entitled to renew PR card after 2 years. That is what the Canadian immigration law says.

Anyways i only want my son to get the Canada PR card. So i am not going to enter 10 years later with a portugal passport. Right now my son is only 5 years old and i have decided for him to apply for Portugal passport rather than go to Canada now and settle there.

But when my son turns 18 if he feels i did a mistake for him by giving him portugal nationality; can he travel to Canada on a portugal passport and declare to immigration that he wants to remain a Canada PR and legally is he allowed to do that. Is he likely to be successful.

regards
prince

As the rules stand right now, he should be able to do an H&C appeal for his PR based on the fact that he was a minor and had no say in what his parents decided to do (that is if he has PR to being with)

No one can predict what the rules will be in 2026....For all we know, at that time having an Indian passport might be considered more valuable than having a Canadian one

 

[princeofindia]

I have no ulterior motive. I am a victim of circumstances.

I applied in 2005 for Canada immigration. Canada decided to start my processing in 2013. In the meantime since it was taking a long time and not knowing if i would ever be successful in getting a Canada PR, i decided to apply for portuguese citizenship. At this moment i dont even know whether Portugal citizenship will be successful. I am still a indian passportholder as i was at the time of my application to canada in 2005.

Having waited so long there is nothing wrong in applying for a Canada PR visa when they are now giving me a chance. Ateleast it gives me now a 5 year backup in case something goes wrong in the gulf region.

If within these 5 years i get Portugal citizenship i will retain that and not go back to Canada. I will continue working in gulf till i retire and neither go to Portugal nor Canada. From what i read so far from all of you, and assuming rules stay same it seems at the age of 18, if my son feels his father did a mistake for him by giving up on canada, he has the chance of going back to canada and honestly declare to immigration that he was a PR at the age of 5 years which expired when he was 10 years old and then it his destiny and luck if they report him.

So i do not think so far i broke any law.

Anyways thanks to all of you for the guidance. I got the answer that my son also has one more chance at age 18 even if we all fail to stay back in canada after we land first time now.

regards
prince

If your son already has a PR card then you don't need to do anything at all. You can stay where you are, he can stay where he is. So long as the laws do not change between now and the time he turns 18 he can apply for a PRTD citing that he was a young child when removed from Canada and he now wishes to return at his earliest opportunity since becoming an adult. A visa exempt passport will have absolutely no impact on that process and he will not loose his PR status formally for not meeting the RO provided that you don't do anything to trigger CIC to look into your families situation.

Honestly, it sounds as if you have ulterior motives for doing what you are proposing and it makes it appear as if you are trying to circumvent the laws and rules so it will benefit you. If you were truly no longer interested in having your Canadian PR then why did you both taking the visa, paying the fees for your wife and child and landing in Canada?