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Received Fairness Letter......Seeking guidance for reply

hopeland

Newbie
May 21, 2015
3
0
Hello,computergeek :

First of all, thank you for your help with us and your quick responds. I have read all your former responds and get some basic knowledge for reply theFairness Letter.

We submite our medical results in Nov,2014 and my husband was fund an infection of HCV:
HCV-RNA 8.14*10 6 (the normal:<10 3)
ALT 53

My husband started his treatment right after we found the infection.(We did not know the infection before this examination). And after 2 months treatment, all the medical index are in normal scope till now. But his treatment will last to this October.

These days, we have already contacted with some attonery.

Once again, I don't want to wate your time and just what to know the posibility of passing the medical examination considering our case.

Thank you again for your hard work and Best wishes!
 

computergeek

VIP Member
Jan 31, 2012
5,143
277
124
Vancouver BC
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O/LA
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-03-2012
AOR Received.
21-06-2012
File Transfer...
21-6-2012
Med's Done....
11-02-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
26-09-2012
VISA ISSUED...
10-10-2012
LANDED..........
13-10-2012
TreYke said:
Hi Computergeek,

Just need some enlightenment.

Medical exam were done on 05 May 2015. My son undergone open heart surgery way back 2008, he is now 7 years old. On January 2015, we had our son admitted in the hospital for work-up check-up (lab tests, xray, 2D echo) all results were unremarkable. We got from his Pedia Cardio a MedCert indicating that my son has a normal life expectancy and that the surgery was successful w/out complication.

Thus, during medical we submitted the following: Medical Certificate, Abstract Clinic, Discharge Summary, 2D Echo result, and Prognosis (latest MedCert).

Our eMedical were submitted on 12 May 2015 (no 3rd line ECAS). Based on the above, what is our chance of getting our Medical passed?

Please advise. Best regards..
There are a number of pediatric cardiological conditions that are congenital and after correction do not require any additional treatment. In such a situation there should be no issue. Of course, that depends upon the opinion of the medical officer and I and a friend of mine (an attorney that is handling excessive demand medical inadmissibility cases) have noticed that CIC is becoming much more aggressive about issuing fairness letters, even in cases where there is no medical basis for such. Based upon what you have described, there is no reason for a negative medical decision. Should the medical officer disagree, you would receive a fairness letter and can address it at that time, though I certainly hope that won't be required in your case.
 

computergeek

VIP Member
Jan 31, 2012
5,143
277
124
Vancouver BC
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O/LA
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-03-2012
AOR Received.
21-06-2012
File Transfer...
21-6-2012
Med's Done....
11-02-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
26-09-2012
VISA ISSUED...
10-10-2012
LANDED..........
13-10-2012
hopeland said:
Hello,computergeek :

First of all, thank you for your help with us and your quick responds. I have read all your former responds and get some basic knowledge for reply theFairness Letter.

We submite our medical results in Nov,2014 and my husband was fund an infection of HCV:
HCV-RNA 8.14*10 6 (the normal:<10 3)
ALT 53

My husband started his treatment right after we found the infection.(We did not know the infection before this examination). And after 2 months treatment, all the medical index are in normal scope till now. But his treatment will last to this October.

These days, we have already contacted with some attonery.

Once again, I don't want to wate your time and just what to know the posibility of passing the medical examination considering our case.

Thank you again for your hard work and Best wishes!
I strongly recommend you work with your attorney, as she or he will have much better information about your specific case. However, based upon what you have stated, there is no reason for them to issue a negative opinion. If they do so, your attorney will submit alternative medical opinions stating that your husband does not require further treatment and thus does not meet the threshold of excessive demand. HCV is now a curable condition, and once cured it would only require normal monitoring, which e courts have said (Companioni) is not sufficient to be excessive demand.
 

TreYke

Star Member
Feb 25, 2015
145
7
Category........
Visa Office......
MVO
NOC Code......
0911
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
30-07-2014
Nomination.....
PER 25-11-2014
Med's Request
24-04-2015
Med's Done....
05-05-2015 eMed's Sent....: 12-05-2015 ECAS 3rd Line 26-05-2015
Interview........
waived!
Passport Req..
03-06-2015 ppt sent.....: 24-06-2015 DM........: 08-07-2015
VISA ISSUED...
05-07-2015 Visa on Hand: 23-07-2015
LANDED..........
Sept 2015
computergeek said:
There are a number of pediatric cardiological conditions that are congenital and after correction do not require any additional treatment. In such a situation there should be no issue. Of course, that depends upon the opinion of the medical officer and I and a friend of mine (an attorney that is handling excessive demand medical inadmissibility cases) have noticed that CIC is becoming much more aggressive about issuing fairness letters, even in cases where there is no medical basis for such. Based upon what you have described, there is no reason for a negative medical decision. Should the medical officer disagree, you would receive a fairness letter and can address it at that time, though I certainly hope that won't be required in your case.
computergeek/Sir, thank you so much for giving time in answering my query. Yes, after surgery, no additional treatment, no maintenance, and at present he has a very normal life. Well, again thank you Sir, your positive inputs / ideas really help us on our journey. God Bless You!
 

hopeland

Newbie
May 21, 2015
3
0
computergeek said:
I strongly recommend you work with your attorney, as she or he will have much better information about your specific case. However, based upon what you have stated, there is no reason for them to issue a negative opinion. If they do so, your attorney will submit alternative medical opinions stating that your husband does not require further treatment and thus does not meet the threshold of excessive demand. HCV is now a curable condition, and once cured it would only require normal monitoring, which e courts have said (Companioni) is not sufficient to be excessive demand.
Hi, computergeek:

Thanks very much for your quick response, and I have much more confidence now. But still I have some concerns in following aspects:

1. My husband's period of treatment will finishied in this October, which means, before that he still need treatment. That maybe means excessive cost.

2. We have known that HCV is curable now, but it is quite expensive and we have not use the new medicine now. The CIC can think that before we cure it or if we don't have enough money to accept the new treatment or we just don't want to due to the high cost, we still cost excessive expenses.

Do you think the CIC will think in this way and what's your opinion?
 

computergeek

VIP Member
Jan 31, 2012
5,143
277
124
Vancouver BC
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O/LA
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-03-2012
AOR Received.
21-06-2012
File Transfer...
21-6-2012
Med's Done....
11-02-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
26-09-2012
VISA ISSUED...
10-10-2012
LANDED..........
13-10-2012
hopeland said:
1. My husband's period of treatment will finishied in this October, which means, before that he still need treatment. That maybe means excessive cost.
If the treatment is to be done in Canada, yes. But CIC is actually slow with excessive demand cases, thus it's unlikely you would be responding to a fairness letter in this time frame. Once treatment is done and assuming the condition has been resolved, it will be a non-issue.

hopeland said:
2. We have known that HCV is curable now, but it is quite expensive and we have not use the new medicine now. The CIC can think that before we cure it or if we don't have enough money to accept the new treatment or we just don't want to due to the high cost, we still cost excessive expenses.
They are fairly limited here: if treatment is not indicated, they cannot project "possible future need" they can only project "probable future need". That does not mean they might not try to do so, but the case law here is quite clear: officers can only consider things that are more likely than not to be required.

Thus, it really depends upon what treatment the doctors think will be required moving forward. If you do get a fairness letter, it's best if you get a doctor in Canada to agree with the required treatment (this is something a good attorney will do, find a doctor to write such a medical opinion letter). I have seen a pattern in recent excessive demand claims where medical officers pick expensive treatment options that are not indicated by the condition - they are essentially pushing the burden of proving you are not excessive demand onto you. While you can proceed with opinions just of doctors in your own country, an opinion from a Canadian medical doctor is quite strong in terms of responding to any fairness letter.

My suggestion: focus on your husband's treatment right now. Deal with any potential fairness letter when it comes (which typically takes ~6 months to arrive after any medical furtherance).
 

hopeland

Newbie
May 21, 2015
3
0
computergeek said:
If the treatment is to be done in Canada, yes. But CIC is actually slow with excessive demand cases, thus it's unlikely you would be responding to a fairness letter in this time frame. Once treatment is done and assuming the condition has been resolved, it will be a non-issue.

They are fairly limited here: if treatment is not indicated, they cannot project "possible future need" they can only project "probable future need". That does not mean they might not try to do so, but the case law here is quite clear: officers can only consider things that are more likely than not to be required.

Thus, it really depends upon what treatment the doctors think will be required moving forward. If you do get a fairness letter, it's best if you get a doctor in Canada to agree with the required treatment (this is something a good attorney will do, find a doctor to write such a medical opinion letter). I have seen a pattern in recent excessive demand claims where medical officers pick expensive treatment options that are not indicated by the condition - they are essentially pushing the burden of proving you are not excessive demand onto you. While you can proceed with opinions just of doctors in your own country, an opinion from a Canadian medical doctor is quite strong in terms of responding to any fairness letter.

My suggestion: focus on your husband's treatment right now. Deal with any potential fairness letter when it comes (which typically takes ~6 months to arrive after any medical furtherance).
Thanks so much, and we are talking with a lawyer these days. And he said, the firm has successfully handled a HCV fairness letter.
Hope we can make it too. And will let you know with further information.
 

jen3014

Member
Apr 1, 2014
14
1
computergeek said:
If those are posted and you didn't go through the fairness process, the only news is good news. Issues that require fairness letters mean that the medical results are NOT posted to your file. So yes, it means you're fine (medically).
Just wanted to thank you and everyone else that offered their advice on our fairness letter last year. We got a an email this morning looking for photos and photocopies of our passports so they could issue our confirmation documents. It's been quite a journey, but now the end is in sight. And our mitigation plan was strong enough to get over the hurdle. :)
 

Apirant

Member
Jul 3, 2010
17
0
Category........
Visa Office......
NDVO
NOC Code......
0213
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21-June-2010
Med's Request
27-Aug-2013; Received Fairness letter : 21-Aug-2014
Med's Done....
2-Oct-2013;
Passport Req..
27-Aug-2013
VISA ISSUED...
???????
LANDED..........
????????
Hi Computergeek,

It has been 8 months since I sent the response to fairness letter and I had requested for GCMS file thru visafile.info and it has been more than 50 days and still I haven't received it. Also I am not able to access ecas and I get a message "we can't identify you......." for the past 1 week and before that it was showing In-process. Not sure why they have blocked my application everywhere. Have you heard of such cases in the past?.
 

computergeek

VIP Member
Jan 31, 2012
5,143
277
124
Vancouver BC
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O/LA
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-03-2012
AOR Received.
21-06-2012
File Transfer...
21-6-2012
Med's Done....
11-02-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
26-09-2012
VISA ISSUED...
10-10-2012
LANDED..........
13-10-2012
jen3014 said:
Just wanted to thank you and everyone else that offered their advice on our fairness letter last year. We got a an email this morning looking for photos and photocopies of our passports so they could issue our confirmation documents. It's been quite a journey, but now the end is in sight. And our mitigation plan was strong enough to get over the hurdle. :)
Congratulations!
 

computergeek

VIP Member
Jan 31, 2012
5,143
277
124
Vancouver BC
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O/LA
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-03-2012
AOR Received.
21-06-2012
File Transfer...
21-6-2012
Med's Done....
11-02-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
26-09-2012
VISA ISSUED...
10-10-2012
LANDED..........
13-10-2012
Apirant said:
Hi Computergeek,

It has been 8 months since I sent the response to fairness letter and I had requested for GCMS file thru visafile.info and it has been more than 50 days and still I haven't received it. Also I am not able to access ecas and I get a message "we can't identify you......." for the past 1 week and before that it was showing In-process. Not sure why they have blocked my application everywhere. Have you heard of such cases in the past?.
First, you should follow up with the ATIP people. They send a confirmation e-mail to the requestor ("visafile.info" in your case) and they should follow-up with the ATIP folks to request status. They are legally obligated to provide a response within 30 days (with an option to extend it by 30 days under certain circumstances BUT they have to inform you of this option).

Then, you may wish to submit a case specific inquiry to the visa office.

8 months is an unusually long time to wait.
 

Apirant

Member
Jul 3, 2010
17
0
Category........
Visa Office......
NDVO
NOC Code......
0213
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
21-June-2010
Med's Request
27-Aug-2013; Received Fairness letter : 21-Aug-2014
Med's Done....
2-Oct-2013;
Passport Req..
27-Aug-2013
VISA ISSUED...
???????
LANDED..........
????????
Hi Computergeek,

Thank you for the response. I received the GCMS notes and I see that the VO is looking for Medical officer's opinion and it was sent to medical officer after 6 months. Also I saw that the security has been whitened out everywhere but I saw the security as NOT STARTED in the previous file that was received 2 months back. I am not sure why the VO started the security when the medical is not yet passed. The online ecas came back and it does not show 'medical results have been received". Any thoughts on the security updates being made in my GCMS file.
 

computergeek

VIP Member
Jan 31, 2012
5,143
277
124
Vancouver BC
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O/LA
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-03-2012
AOR Received.
21-06-2012
File Transfer...
21-6-2012
Med's Done....
11-02-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
26-09-2012
VISA ISSUED...
10-10-2012
LANDED..........
13-10-2012
Apirant said:
Hi Computergeek,

Thank you for the response. I received the GCMS notes and I see that the VO is looking for Medical officer's opinion and it was sent to medical officer after 6 months. Also I saw that the security has been whitened out everywhere but I saw the security as NOT STARTED in the previous file that was received 2 months back. I am not sure why the VO started the security when the medical is not yet passed. The online ecas came back and it does not show 'medical results have been received". Any thoughts on the security updates being made in my GCMS file.
That seems normal - they don't serialize these steps.

The interesting question is why the medical officer hasn't actioned your file yet.
 

scudetto

Newbie
Jul 31, 2014
1
0
computergeek,

could you please share (via PM) trusted attorney specializing in medical inadmissibility cases?


And also could you please tell your opinion about my situation:

We applied under federal skilled worker program and already have received medical forms for a child (our forms we had received earlier).
Unfortunately our newborn child has serious health problems and I have concerns that we will not receive a positive feedback after medical exam and therefore our application will be refused due to medical inadmissibility.

Here is what our child has:
CHARGE Syndrome is under question. (there is now specific test that can be done which will definitively diagnose or rule out CHARGE. In fact it is a combination of different problems). Genetic tests are ok, be we still have not received a definite opinion from our doctors. Clear diagnosis is very difficult nowadays. But in all our medical document CHARGE Syndrome _under question_ is present. Even if it is CHARGE, our case is not the worst, but still serious.

In our case we have Choanal Atresia (already done the surgery to fix it, periodical routine checks required and may require additional surgery.. or may not - nobody knows now) and problems with ears (one of them has unusual form and also there is a high possibility of some hearing loss - we have some tests already done, but doctors say it is impossible to predict smth until baby is 6 month old).


In fact I am not really sure whether we should consult an attorney... maybe there are no chances at all and we shouldn't even waste money on it. And if there are some chances when is the best option to contact professionals, before medical exam or only after receiving of fairness letter. Will be very grateful if you share you thoughts about it and give some advices..
 

computergeek

VIP Member
Jan 31, 2012
5,143
277
124
Vancouver BC
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-O/LA
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-03-2012
AOR Received.
21-06-2012
File Transfer...
21-6-2012
Med's Done....
11-02-2012
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
26-09-2012
VISA ISSUED...
10-10-2012
LANDED..........
13-10-2012
scudetto said:
computergeek,

could you please share (via PM) trusted attorney specializing in medical inadmissibility cases?


And also could you please tell your opinion about my situation:

We applied under federal skilled worker program and already have received medical forms for a child (our forms we had received earlier).
Unfortunately our newborn child has serious health problems and I have concerns that we will not receive a positive feedback after medical exam and therefore our application will be refused due to medical inadmissibility.

Here is what our child has:
CHARGE Syndrome is under question. (there is now specific test that can be done which will definitively diagnose or rule out CHARGE. In fact it is a combination of different problems). Genetic tests are ok, be we still have not received a definite opinion from our doctors. Clear diagnosis is very difficult nowadays. But in all our medical document CHARGE Syndrome _under question_ is present. Even if it is CHARGE, our case is not the worst, but still serious.

In our case we have Choanal Atresia (already done the surgery to fix it, periodical routine checks required and may require additional surgery.. or may not - nobody knows now) and problems with ears (one of them has unusual form and also there is a high possibility of some hearing loss - we have some tests already done, but doctors say it is impossible to predict smth until baby is 6 month old).


In fact I am not really sure whether we should consult an attorney... maybe there are no chances at all and we shouldn't even waste money on it. And if there are some chances when is the best option to contact professionals, before medical exam or only after receiving of fairness letter. Will be very grateful if you share you thoughts about it and give some advices..
There is always a chance. Indeed, I think there are some serious legal arguments that could be persuasive. My personal favourite is what I call the "reverse cherry picking" argument. It goes something like this:

(1) CIC evaluates all applicants as a group in terms of determining inadmissibility. Thus, if one person is found inadmissible in the family all members are inadmissible. But to reach this determination they take the worst case individual from the group and compare them to the average case across Canada. "Cherry picking" is the process of picking only the BEST case to use for consideration; thus, reverse cherry picking is to find the WORST case. But comparing the WORST case against an AVERAGE doesn't seem to be a fair practice.

Thus, the argument would be: if CIC is going to rule the entire family is inadmissible they need to use the average cost of the family, not the worst case cost of one individual. Then at least they'd be comparing averages to each other.

(2) There are other legal arguments available as well (e.g., Canada's legal obligations under International law: they are signatories to the UN Convention on People with Disabilities, and the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, both of which clearly don't allow this type of discrimination). One I'd like to see argued is that because health care is the legal right of the Province, CIC's processing of this area is as an agent of the Province (the Provinces have written contracts with CIC granting CIC the right to act in immigration). In that case, CIC is subject to Provincial human rights legislation (ergo, you cannot disclaim your legal responsibility by empowering an agent to act on your behalf. The agent is bound to the same legal requirements that CIC is bound).

It's also possible that the costs in your case won't exceed the excessive demand threshold. If you're willing to fight, I encourage you to do so. But be prepared for it to potentially take several years and cost much more than you might like (it's not unreasonable to expect it to cost CAD$10k if you must go to Federal Court: the cost for an attorney to formulate a reply to the fairness letter, medical opinions, then court fees, service fees, etc.)

CIC does not do very well with excessive demand medical inadmissibility cases like yours. They don't lose them all, but their track record is far worse in this area than in most other areas of immigration law.