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Ray of Hope - 131st Draw

Skitles

Star Member
Sep 12, 2019
112
64
This year feb had only 1 draw so there is no rule to have 2 draws a month.Also, the draw can happen on mon, dec 23 instead of 25 as it happened last year too.In that case it wont be b2b.
Yes it is possible it may happen on 23 Dec, just as it may happen on 18 Dec.
People are making the conclusion of 18 Dec based on the pattern last year.
Also we are thinking that there will be 2 draws in December because the pattern of 2 draws per month occurs so many times that it becomes a norm. Of course it is also possible to have only 1 draw, but that will be irregularity. So it is normal to conclude a pattern that seems to be regular rather than to expect what seems abnormal.

Of course we also have to brace ourselves for possible disappointment but just try our best to focus on the positive side? As a member said above: hope for the best, prepare for the worst. It's a torture to wait, but it's always better than not having a chance to wait at all.
 
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mbel1014

Member
Nov 4, 2019
17
17
What probability you guys would associate with score of 466 in 132nd draw. This draw looks difficult now, thanks to WES.
I think I saw your message in the WES topic and to be honest I would move the world if I had to in order to use the 471 score... so, I was thinking, what if you call WES and ask for the document # you need in the EE application? Is that possible? I'm also waiting for WES and the only time I called they actually helped me with the info I needed (took almost a hour waiting on the phone). Maybe you could try that. I haven't started my EE application as I'm waiting for some docs so I'm not sure what do you need to enter the pool in terms of the WES certificate, but you may get that info from them (just what the EE pool application request and not the full report) just to get into this draw, get the ITA and then you'll have time enough to wait for everything.

Now, the only question I have about it is if the age is still a problem when you send the documents after the ITA receival or before... if it's still an issue even after you receive the ITA (I know at some part of the process the age "freeze" on the system so even after your bdy you don't lose any points but I can't remember when is it) then is not worth it to call and do all that... then all you can do is pray and wait for the best with the 466.
 

callebe

Star Member
Oct 29, 2019
112
45
I think I saw your message in the WES topic and to be honest I would move the world if I had to in order to use the 471 score... so, I was thinking, what if you call WES and ask for the document # you need in the EE application? Is that possible? I'm also waiting for WES and the only time I called they actually helped me with the info I needed (took almost a hour waiting on the phone). Maybe you could try that. I haven't started my EE application as I'm waiting for some docs so I'm not sure what do you need to enter the pool in terms of the WES certificate, but you may get that info from them (just what the EE pool application request and not the full report) just to get into this draw, get the ITA and then you'll have time enough to wait for everything.

Now, the only question I have about it is if the age is still a problem when you send the documents after the ITA receival or before... if it's still an issue even after you receive the ITA (I know at some part of the process the age "freeze" on the system so even after your bdy you don't lose any points but I can't remember when is it) then is not worth it to call and do all that... then all you can do is pray and wait for the best with the 466.

Did you use the # number without the ECA pdf? I'm also waiting and I'll get it MAYBE around Dec 20. I'm at 468. I'm afraid of using the number and then they think it was a "misrepresentation".
 

XpLoDe-NeF

Member
Jul 16, 2019
17
26
the next updated number will come on the day of draw? I was thinking it will show up on november 22 but that doesn’t happen.
They post the number of candidates on the day of the draw, but it reflects the size of the candidate pool as it was on the Friday before the draw.
 
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robin6869

Hero Member
Jul 31, 2017
278
252
People receiving NOIs and PNP getting approved. They are getting 600 points and getting PR eventually. I am posting this for those folks who might thinking to move out of province after landing. According to this PR card can be cancelled if someone just move out of province of interest.


One of the most frequently asked question I get is, can an applicant who applied under the PNP, or was given a Provincial nomination move out of the Province of his nomination. And if he can, under what circumstances and what is the procedure.

To answer this question, we need to understand the PR status and then dwell into the PNP program.

1. Understanding Permanent Resident status:


When your PR application is approved, a COPR issued, and a visa stamped in your passport, you are all ready to become a Canadian Permanent Resident. You will become a Permanent Resident as soon as you land in Canada and complete the formalities of getting the COPR stamped, your data entered in the system, and the CSBA officer allowing you to enter Canada as a PR.

Upon becoming a PR, you get all rights under the Canadian Constitution that as a Canadian Citizen has, except the right to vote and run for office. As a PR you may not be eligible for high level security clearance to work for jobs in intelligence, but apart from that, you can work for the government.

One of the many rights a PR would get is called the “Mobility Right.” Section 6 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is the same as the fundamental rights or bill of rights in other countries states:

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right
a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
(3) The rights specified in subsection (2) are subject to
a) any laws or practices of general application in force in a province other than those that discriminate among persons primarily on the basis of province of present or previous residence; and
b) any laws providing for reasonable residency requirements as a qualification for the receipt of publicly provided social services.
(4) Subsections (2) and (3) do not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration in a province of conditions of individuals in that province who are socially or economically disadvantaged if the rate of employment in that province is below the rate of employment in Canada.

If you carefully read Section 6(2), you will understand that as a PR, you have the right to move and settle in any part of Canada, including Quebec. Even if you mentioned in your application that you want to settle in Ontario and then changed your mind to settle in Montreal, you can do that as a FSW.

This is your fundamental right, which is guaranteed by the Canadian Constitution. As a PR, you don’t have to inform any authority on your intent to move, including the Province you are moving out of, or the Province you are moving to.

2. Understanding your obligation as a PNP nominee

When you filled your form for the PR, you were asked about your interest to reside in different provinces. Alternatively, you may have sent a letter of interest (“LOI”) to the province communicating your interest in moving to that province. It was in consideration of this Interest that you communicated, and having satisfied the Provincial nominee program requirements, the Province issued you a nomination, which gave you an additional 600 points.

It is important to understand that while Immigration is a federal subject, on which the federal government has complete control, the federal government has given certain privileges to Provinces to attract prospective immigrants to those provinces. PNP, is a part of that deal. However, even when a province nominates a prospective immigrant, it is the federal government through IRCC, which will make a final decision in whether to approve it or not.

There has been a case where a province nominated an applicant, but the IRCC refused his application citing concerns on his intent to settle in that province. The court held that it was the sole prerogative of the IRCC to make a decision and the Province can only nominate, but not have a final say on whom to admit and whom not to. This is why IRCC will ask for settlement plans from some PNP applicants to ensure that they are not using PNP as a means to seek in. (See Deol v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration), 2013 FC 1147; and Noreen v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration), 2013 FC 1169).

Now the important part - Section 6(3)(a) & (b) are subject to certain regulations and laws, and one of the most important is Provincial Nominee Program. Section 6(3)(a) & (b) create several limits to mobility rights. Laws requiring reasonable residence periods in order to qualify for social service programs, laws that do not discriminate on the basis of province of previous or present residence, and laws designed to improve conditions in areas of Canada with lower than average employment rates, are all exempted from the mobility rights guarantee in section 6. In other words, these types of provisions can infringe mobility rights, without being unconstitutional. Additionally, a law that is not saved by section 6(3) or (4) may be saved by analysis under section 1 of the Charter as being demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. Until now there has been no case that I have come across dealing with the mobility rights and PNP. If you know of any, please let me know.

This mandates that an immigrant who immigrated under the PNP should remain in the province which nominated him for about 2 years to show his intention. This number is no where in the law, but reading the immigration laws and regulations, this is what people have derived. Even though an immigrant may have become a PR, he is subject to the limitations under Section 6(3)(a) & (b). While the law remains ambiguous, the more provinces are reporting PNP applicants who do not reside in the Province of nomination.

In the case of individuals where indications at the Port of Entry (POE) are that they no longer intend to reside in the nominating province/territory, they may be reported under section A44(1) for non-compliance with paragraph 87(2)(b) of the IRPR. At worst, where it becomes evident that an individual never intended to reside in the nominating province or territory, this could give rise to an allegation of misrepresentation, pursuant to paragraph 40(1)(a) of the IRPA. In the case few months some Provinces have been very actively pursuing this part and reporting immigrants. When reported for misrepresentation, the PR status can be cancelled and the applicant deported.

3. Does this mean that the PNP applicant can not leave the Province?

By moving to another province right after you get your immigrant status, your intentions may be questioned and you may be reported for misrepresentation. Here are a few things that you can do before you decide to leave the province that nominated you:

a. Actively look for other jobs within the nominating province.
b. Properly document your job hunting activities including the results for each job that you applied for.
c. Exhaust all means of finding employment inside the province.

If you don’t get job offers or if you’re offered a job but the offer you’re getting out of the province is for a higher position and for a significantly higher pay, then your move is justified. If you have these documented, your move to another Province would be justified and if questioned, you will have all the documents that you tried.

I hope this helps you understand what the PR status is, the mobility rights and your obligation under the PNP.

Your thoughts are welcome and if any of you has experience with the PNP, or would like to add, please do so.
 

mona247

Hero Member
Sep 26, 2018
428
105
Category........
FSW
NOC Code......
6235
People receiving NOIs and PNP getting approved. They are getting 600 points and getting PR eventually. I am posting this for those folks who might thinking to move out of province after landing. According to this PR card can be cancelled if someone just move out of province of interest.


One of the most frequently asked question I get is, can an applicant who applied under the PNP, or was given a Provincial nomination move out of the Province of his nomination. And if he can, under what circumstances and what is the procedure.

To answer this question, we need to understand the PR status and then dwell into the PNP program.

1. Understanding Permanent Resident status:


When your PR application is approved, a COPR issued, and a visa stamped in your passport, you are all ready to become a Canadian Permanent Resident. You will become a Permanent Resident as soon as you land in Canada and complete the formalities of getting the COPR stamped, your data entered in the system, and the CSBA officer allowing you to enter Canada as a PR.

Upon becoming a PR, you get all rights under the Canadian Constitution that as a Canadian Citizen has, except the right to vote and run for office. As a PR you may not be eligible for high level security clearance to work for jobs in intelligence, but apart from that, you can work for the government.

One of the many rights a PR would get is called the “Mobility Right.” Section 6 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is the same as the fundamental rights or bill of rights in other countries states:

6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada.
(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right
a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province.
(3) The rights specified in subsection (2) are subject to
a) any laws or practices of general application in force in a province other than those that discriminate among persons primarily on the basis of province of present or previous residence; and
b) any laws providing for reasonable residency requirements as a qualification for the receipt of publicly provided social services.
(4) Subsections (2) and (3) do not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration in a province of conditions of individuals in that province who are socially or economically disadvantaged if the rate of employment in that province is below the rate of employment in Canada.

If you carefully read Section 6(2), you will understand that as a PR, you have the right to move and settle in any part of Canada, including Quebec. Even if you mentioned in your application that you want to settle in Ontario and then changed your mind to settle in Montreal, you can do that as a FSW.

This is your fundamental right, which is guaranteed by the Canadian Constitution. As a PR, you don’t have to inform any authority on your intent to move, including the Province you are moving out of, or the Province you are moving to.

2. Understanding your obligation as a PNP nominee

When you filled your form for the PR, you were asked about your interest to reside in different provinces. Alternatively, you may have sent a letter of interest (“LOI”) to the province communicating your interest in moving to that province. It was in consideration of this Interest that you communicated, and having satisfied the Provincial nominee program requirements, the Province issued you a nomination, which gave you an additional 600 points.

It is important to understand that while Immigration is a federal subject, on which the federal government has complete control, the federal government has given certain privileges to Provinces to attract prospective immigrants to those provinces. PNP, is a part of that deal. However, even when a province nominates a prospective immigrant, it is the federal government through IRCC, which will make a final decision in whether to approve it or not.

There has been a case where a province nominated an applicant, but the IRCC refused his application citing concerns on his intent to settle in that province. The court held that it was the sole prerogative of the IRCC to make a decision and the Province can only nominate, but not have a final say on whom to admit and whom not to. This is why IRCC will ask for settlement plans from some PNP applicants to ensure that they are not using PNP as a means to seek in. (See Deol v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration), 2013 FC 1147; and Noreen v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration), 2013 FC 1169).

Now the important part - Section 6(3)(a) & (b) are subject to certain regulations and laws, and one of the most important is Provincial Nominee Program. Section 6(3)(a) & (b) create several limits to mobility rights. Laws requiring reasonable residence periods in order to qualify for social service programs, laws that do not discriminate on the basis of province of previous or present residence, and laws designed to improve conditions in areas of Canada with lower than average employment rates, are all exempted from the mobility rights guarantee in section 6. In other words, these types of provisions can infringe mobility rights, without being unconstitutional. Additionally, a law that is not saved by section 6(3) or (4) may be saved by analysis under section 1 of the Charter as being demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society. Until now there has been no case that I have come across dealing with the mobility rights and PNP. If you know of any, please let me know.

This mandates that an immigrant who immigrated under the PNP should remain in the province which nominated him for about 2 years to show his intention. This number is no where in the law, but reading the immigration laws and regulations, this is what people have derived. Even though an immigrant may have become a PR, he is subject to the limitations under Section 6(3)(a) & (b). While the law remains ambiguous, the more provinces are reporting PNP applicants who do not reside in the Province of nomination.

In the case of individuals where indications at the Port of Entry (POE) are that they no longer intend to reside in the nominating province/territory, they may be reported under section A44(1) for non-compliance with paragraph 87(2)(b) of the IRPR. At worst, where it becomes evident that an individual never intended to reside in the nominating province or territory, this could give rise to an allegation of misrepresentation, pursuant to paragraph 40(1)(a) of the IRPA. In the case few months some Provinces have been very actively pursuing this part and reporting immigrants. When reported for misrepresentation, the PR status can be cancelled and the applicant deported.

3. Does this mean that the PNP applicant can not leave the Province?

By moving to another province right after you get your immigrant status, your intentions may be questioned and you may be reported for misrepresentation. Here are a few things that you can do before you decide to leave the province that nominated you:

a. Actively look for other jobs within the nominating province.
b. Properly document your job hunting activities including the results for each job that you applied for.
c. Exhaust all means of finding employment inside the province.

If you don’t get job offers or if you’re offered a job but the offer you’re getting out of the province is for a higher position and for a significantly higher pay, then your move is justified. If you have these documented, your move to another Province would be justified and if questioned, you will have all the documents that you tried.

I hope this helps you understand what the PR status is, the mobility rights and your obligation under the PNP.

Your thoughts are welcome and if any of you has experience with the PNP, or would like to add, please do so.
Fantastic post. Very detailed. Thank you.


Immigrants safe keep the following documents.
1) Job search documentation.
2) first 3 to 4 utility bill copies or rental agreements.
3) people tend to take the driving license from the nominated province.


Some people also make sure their spouse and family spends one year in the nominated province while one member of the family is earning in another province.

This is a very detailed topic and perhaps for another thread, but the Cruz of the matter is that, folks sitting between 440 to 460 , do not blindly go for pnp when you have no intension to live in that province for at least 6 to 12 months, preferably 2 years. Stay safe!!!