PRTD refusal for not meeting RO - 60 days passed, no appealing - what to do now? how to find out status? how to re-apply for PR?

[Hailey01]

Hi Everyone!

I hope everyone is safe and well!

I had a couple of posts on PRTD refusal already and now that the 60 days passed, I am posting again to find out if anyone has any experience on what to do after the 60 days passed since the refusal letter. I got refused for not meeting the residency obligations. As I don't have any humanitarian and compassionate grounds, there was no point appealing. So I didn't appeal. The decision letter stated 60 days for the appeal. Now that the 60 days passed completely, I don't know how I could find out what my status is.

The letter also stated that I am inadmissible as a permanent resident to Canada.

I tried to check through the webform but PRTD cases can not be looked up in the system online. There's no phone number to the Migration Section. I sent several emails about this to the general email addresses that's under the embassy's contact menu but no answer. There's no way to find out on-line if after 60 days now my name is flagged with lost status or not.

Could anyone give advice on how it could be found out? I would really like to re-apply again for permenent residence but if my status is flagged or not processed completeley, not closed with 'status lost' then IRCC would probably send my package back and would not proceed my re-application I guess.

Or does anyone have any idea how this works? Whom I should get in touch with or if it's worth at all re-applying again? Are there any chances being approved for someone who was refused once and determined inadmissible for not meeting residency obligatons?

With re-applying do I need to collect all the papers again as before or IRCC has the documents in their system? I have no idea where to turn to with such questions.... I hope there's someone on this forum with experience on these.

 

[dpenabill]

I am posting again to find out if anyone has any experience on what to do after the 60 days passed since the refusal letter. I got refused for not meeting the residency obligations. As I don't have any humanitarian and compassionate grounds, there was no point appealing. So I didn't appeal. The decision letter stated 60 days for the appeal. Now that the 60 days passed completely, I don't know how I could find out what my status is.

Once the time for making an appeal has passed, with no appeal having been made, the decision is final and PR status is terminated.

Thus: Your Canadian status is that of a Foreign National.

While some participants in this forum describe the decision denying a PR Travel Document as "starting" the process to revoke or terminate PR status, that is misleading. A decision denying a PR TD is akin to a court verdict in a trial. It is a decision which terminates PR status. While that decision is subject to the right of appeal, and thus does not have the immediate effect of terminating PR status, it takes effect when the time for making an appeal has passed UNLESS an appeal has been made.

Thus, for example, if you carry a visa-exempt passport you can now apply for eTA for the purpose of traveling to Canada as a visitor. And for the purpose of any other application to travel to or enter Canada, you are now a Foreign National. . . . so, for example, if you pursue a new application for PR, you follow the instructions and are subject to the same standards as any other Foreign National applying for PR.

 

[Hailey01]

Once the time for making an appeal has passed, with no appeal having been made, the decision is final and PR status is terminated.

Thus: Your Canadian status is that of a Foreign National.

While some participants in this forum describe the decision denying a PR Travel Document as "starting" the process to revoke or terminate PR status, that is misleading. A decision denying a PR TD is akin to a court verdict in a trial. It is a decision which terminates PR status. While that decision is subject to the right of appeal, and thus does not have the immediate effect of terminating PR status, it takes effect when the time for making an appeal has passed UNLESS an appeal has been made.

Thus, for example, if you carry a visa-exempt passport you can now apply for eTA for the purpose of traveling to Canada as a visitor. And for the purpose of any other application to travel to or enter Canada, you are now a Foreign National. . . . so, for example, if you pursue a new application for PR, you follow the instructions and are subject to the same standards as any other Foreign National applying for PR.

Hi dpenabill,

Thank you for taking the time and reply to my post with valuable information. Since I received the decision letter I am constantly searching for information on how I could find out and be sure that my case is closed and the status is taken. Basically, to avoid having my re-application package sent back with no proceedings due to a non-closed case.

Also, I was thinking attaching a cover letter to my package. Is it a good idea? Should I explain that I had PR status before and why it was taken? I am very much unsure.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi dpenabill,

Thank you for taking the time and reply to my post with valuable information. Since I received the decision letter I am constantly searching for information on how I could find out and be sure that my case is closed and the status is taken. Basically, to avoid having my re-application package sent back with no proceedings due to a non-closed case.

Also, I was thinking attaching a cover letter to my package. Is it a good idea? Should I explain that I had PR status before and why it was taken? I am very much unsure.

Even in normal times, you would be right to wonder about the in-effect timing of a clerical act. There often is a delay between when a bureaucracy makes a decision and when the "record" reflects that decision. This is quite likely aggravated in the current situation involving the impact of the global Covid-19 pandemic, in which all sorts of actions are delayed.

If you have a visa-exempt passport it is relatively easy to make an electronic application for eTA, which would be promptly denied if your GCMS status does not reflect your status as that of a Foreign National.

While I cannot guess how long someone in your situation should wait to be sure their client record (the GCMS record) is, so to say, up-to-date, particularly as to reflecting Foreign National status after a decision terminating PR status, it is nonetheless hard to see running into a problem of this sort when making a PR application. For some types of applications which automatically screen for certain criteria, like the eTA application, a delay in the GCMS record showing you with the status of a Foreign National could be a problem. But the visa office decision itself should have been entered into your GCMS well before the 60 days expired, so there really should not be a problem with a PR application if it has been more than 60 days since you received the letter itself. In particular, my sense is it is almost for sure that by the time IRCC actually opens and begins processing a new PR application, your client record will show you having the status of a Foreign National.

Beyond that, I am NOT an expert and I have not been following the process or procedure for making a PR application for many years. So I cannot begin to offer any suggestions about how to best go about making a new PR application now.

I can confidently say that the fact you were a PR and that you lost PR status because you were inadmissible based on a failure to comply with the Residency Obligation has NO NEGATIVE impact on a future application for PR or other status. Failing to comply with the RO is not considered to be any sort of "wrong-doing," not at all. It is simply failing to do what is needed to keep PR status, so you lost your status.

 

[Hailey01]

Even in normal times, you would be right to wonder about the in-effect timing of a clerical act. There often is a delay between when a bureaucracy makes a decision and when the "record" reflects that decision. This is quite likely aggravated in the current situation involving the impact of the global Covid-19 pandemic, in which all sorts of actions are delayed.

If you have a visa-exempt passport it is relatively easy to make an electronic application for eTA, which would be promptly denied if your GCMS status does not reflect your status as that of a Foreign National.

While I cannot guess how long someone in your situation should wait to be sure their client record (the GCMS record) is, so to say, up-to-date, particularly as to reflecting Foreign National status after a decision terminating PR status, it is nonetheless hard to see running into a problem of this sort when making a PR application. For some types of applications which automatically screen for certain criteria, like the eTA application, a delay in the GCMS record showing you with the status of a Foreign National could be a problem. But the visa office decision itself should have been entered into your GCMS well before the 60 days expired, so there really should not be a problem with a PR application if it has been more than 60 days since you received the letter itself. In particular, my sense is it is almost for sure that by the time IRCC actually opens and begins processing a new PR application, your client record will show you having the status of a Foreign National.

Beyond that, I am NOT an expert and I have not been following the process or procedure for making a PR application for many years. So I cannot begin to offer any suggestions about how to best go about making a new PR application now.

I can confidently say that the fact you were a PR and that you lost PR status because you were inadmissible based on a failure to comply with the Residency Obligation has NO NEGATIVE impact on a future application for PR or other status. Failing to comply with the RO is not considered to be any sort of "wrong-doing," not at all. It is simply failing to do what is needed to keep PR status, so you lost your status.

THANK YOU, "dpenabill" for the detailed information. You are absolutely right about the clerical act perspective, even in normal times there could be delays on the "record" reflecting the decision. I received the decision letter with a date 16th of November 2020. So it's more than 60 days already. I've been trying to look for information on the record check online but there are no platforms, nor webforms supporting such a search. So since then was trying to either get in touch with the Migration Section by phone, email and general search on their website and in different forums but not much luck. So I kept waiting until the 60 days passed hoping to somehow be able to find a way to figure this out. Of course, the pandemia slows everything down pretty much, hoping to be over soon. So, I am aware of the delays that might appear in such actions, cases...etc.

I am also looking into ways to re-apply. Trying to find more information on applying through one of the Provincial Nomination Programmes. I might get a job offer soon if everything goes well with my meetings so I would like to be prepared when the job offer arrives. I am not sure which one is easier and have a higher chance to be accepted, to re-apply through the general Express Entry or the PNP Skilled Worker stream. Do you have any experience on this "dpenabill"? I'm Skilled Type 0 and Skill Level A candidate doctoral level with over 15 years of work experience in management position. However, as I am single, the pointing system of Express Entry would not be a great idea I guess. I don't know. I've read information about Expres Entry and that it's more favourable for families rather than single poeple. Do you know anything about this?

 

[dpenabill]

I am also looking into ways to re-apply. Trying to find more information on applying through one of the Provincial Nomination Programmes. I might get a job offer soon if everything goes well with my meetings so I would like to be prepared when the job offer arrives. I am not sure which one is easier and have a higher chance to be accepted, to re-apply through the general Express Entry or the PNP Skilled Worker stream. Do you have any experience on this "dpenabill"? I'm Skilled Type 0 and Skill Level A candidate doctoral level with over 15 years of work experience in management position. However, as I am single, the pointing system of Express Entry would not be a great idea I guess. I don't know. I've read information about Expres Entry and that it's more favourable for families rather than single poeple. Do you know anything about this?

Sorry, no. As I previously said, some years ago I drifted away from following the process and procedures for obtaining PR status itself. I became a PR more than a dozen years ago, and much has changed in the meantime.

For several years now my attention has been focused on a narrow range of issues facing PRs, related to keeping PR status, and some of the more complex aspects in the grant citizenship application process.

In regards to what your status is as currently reflected in GCMS, if the decision is dated 16 November 2020, I cannot imagine a problem going forward. As I previously stated, the decision itself most likely would have gone into your GCMS record EVEN BEFORE the 60 days expired. And it appears you have a significant amount of homework to do before submitting a new application, so there really should be no need to worry about your status as reflected in your GCMS records when IRCC receives a new PR application from you.

Wishing you good luck with your efforts.

 

[Hailey01]

Sorry, no. As I previously said, some years ago I drifted away from following the process and procedures for obtaining PR status itself. I became a PR more than a dozen years ago, and much has changed in the meantime.

For several years now my attention has been focused on a narrow range of issues facing PRs, related to keeping PR status, and some of the more complex aspects in the grant citizenship application process.

In regards to what your status is as currently reflected in GCMS, if the decision is dated 16 November 2020, I cannot imagine a problem going forward. As I previously stated, the decision itself most likely would have gone into your GCMS record EVEN BEFORE the 60 days expired. And it appears you have a significant amount of homework to do before submitting a new application, so there really should be no need to worry about your status as reflected in your GCMS records when IRCC receives a new PR application from you.

Wishing you good luck with your efforts.

Thank you very much for wishing good luck, "dpendabill"! Take care and stay safe.

 

[canuck78]

What is your CRS score if you get a job offer? Depending on the job the employer will need an LMIA.

 

[Hailey01]

What is your CRS score if you get a job offer? Depending on the job the employer will need an LMIA.

Thank you for reading the post "canuck78" and also for your reply. I was recommended to submit through Provincial Nomination Programme, also LMIA exempt (academic exchange). I guess I need to get in touch with a legal office dealing with such immigration cases to make sure that my application "package" goes into the right immigration programme. There are so much information on the government's site and I have no idea which would be the most appropriate.

The CRS code preliminary assessed is over 1000 points (if I have the official job offer in hand + nomination, as that's an extra 600 points as I was told). A few more scores could be reached though... I speak French too but I've never taken an exam for that. Takink TCF or TEF would add a few more points to the grand total if the language exam is successful.

So still a lot of work to dig into I guess to find out what the best option would be in my case... so diving into these from now on

 

[canuck78]

Thank you for reading the post "canuck78" and also for your reply. I was recommended to submit through Provincial Nomination Programme, also LMIA exempt (academic exchange). I guess I need to get in touch with a legal office dealing with such immigration cases to make sure that my application "package" goes into the right immigration programme. There are so much information on the government's site and I have no idea which would be the most appropriate.

The CRS code preliminary assessed is over 1000 points (if I have the official job offer in hand + nomination, as that's an extra 600 points as I was told). A few more scores could be reached though... I speak French too but I've never taken an exam for that. Takink TCF or TEF would add a few more points to the grand total if the language exam is successful.

So still a lot of work to dig into I guess to find out what the best option would be in my case... so diving into these from now on

PNP is only available for certain NOCs and varies by province as well. You really need to spend more time researching the express entry programs. Just trusting a lawyer or consultant is not a good idea.

 

[Hailey01]

PNP is only available for certain NOCs and varies by province as well. You really need to spend more time researching the express entry programs. Just trusting a lawyer or consultant is not a good idea.

Thank you "canuck78" for your respond. I am really an unexpert in immigration. All I can do is dig into the PNP programmes and also dive into express entry and read information on government websites. How strange, I assumed that an immigration lawyer or advisor being expert in such cases would be a good pick. But yes, you're right. It's not enough to have a lawyer or advisor, the person itself must broaden the knowledge on immigration rules and requirements.

 

[Jasskaur102]

Once the time for making an appeal has passed, with no appeal having been made, the decision is final and PR status is terminated.

Thus: Your Canadian status is that of a Foreign National.

While some participants in this forum describe the decision denying a PR Travel Document as "starting" the process to revoke or terminate PR status, that is misleading. A decision denying a PR TD is akin to a court verdict in a trial. It is a decision which terminates PR status. While that decision is subject to the right of appeal, and thus does not have the immediate effect of terminating PR status, it takes effect when the time for making an appeal has passed UNLESS an appeal has been made.

Thus, for example, if you carry a visa-exempt passport you can now apply for eTA for the purpose of traveling to Canada as a visitor. And for the purpose of any other application to travel to or enter Canada, you are now a Foreign National. . . . so, for example, if you pursue a new application for PR, you follow the instructions and are subject to the same standards as any other Foreign National applying for PR.

hello,
actually I applied my prtd on H&C and was refused because officer was not satisfactory and I didn’t completed RO when I was child. As I was minor at that time. Now, I am in canada as a student and soon I will apply for post graduation work permit. I am planning to submit file to under nee TR to Pr pathway program as a essential worker because I am eligible for that. Will my previous PRTD or Residency obligation in previous PR or renounced PR affect my application.
Thankyou please reply soon

 

[dpenabill]

hello,
actually I applied my prtd on H&C and was refused because officer was not satisfactory and I didn’t completed RO when I was child. As I was minor at that time. Now, I am in canada as a student and soon I will apply for post graduation work permit. I am planning to submit file to under nee TR to Pr pathway program as a essential worker because I am eligible for that. Will my previous PRTD or Residency obligation in previous PR or renounced PR affect my application.
Thankyou please reply soon

I am not an expert . . .

. . . but as others have also commented, the fact that you were a PR and lost it due to not meeting the PR Residency Obligation will likely have no impact on subsequent applications for status in Canada, including applications for Permanent Residence.